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Old 05-06-2014, 04:27 PM
Last of the Thunderlords Last of the Thunderlords is offline

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Crossed Axes (War2) Thoughts on why Garrosh failed as a character (and a question for you guys)

I'm sure there's plenty of people who could tell you why Garrosh failed.

In The Shattering Thrall comments that Dranosh Saurfang would have been a perfect warchief, and I'm inclined to agree. His decision to appoint Garrosh was charted: although they were capable and more reasonable, Eitrigg was old and frail and Saurfang Sr was too disheartened by his son's death; Cairne and Vol'jin weren't orcs and the Horde wasn't ready for that; Nazgrel and several other likely candidates were either absent, dead or too low-ranking to take up the mantle. And Garrosh himself was shocked by the idea - he attempted to turn the promotion down, insisting that politics wasn't his thing; only Thrall's endorsement convinced him he even had a chance at not royally screwing up.

And despite claims that Garrosh was never anything but a "diseased piece of rat rectum" (I still feel unclean just for typing that) as one person so eloquently put it, the real problem is that he was never given the chance to be properly developed in his own right. I imagine Blizzard wanted the big reveal to the Mag'har that Grom wasn't all bad to be a big cathartic moment for Garrosh. Sadly, they didn't think to put anything else in Garrosh's portrayal at the time to make him a more sympathetic character besides. It's not like there weren't characters whose relationship with Garrosh could have been explored (Jorin Deadeye, Dranosh, Greatmother Geyeh) or situations that could have involved him more. (Making peace with an ogre clan? Meh. Murkbloods incoming? Who cares, was Garrosh's response.)

And this continued into Wrath. The comics had him be really unreasonable and hot-headed for seemingly no reason at all. That was what Blizzard chose to run with, and any and all opportunities to make him better were ignored or outright destroyed. He was now chieftain of the Warsong clan, but that didn't mean anything much, just that his HQ in BT was Warsong Hold; Dranosh was killed in the first 3.0 patch; Jorin was put on a bus; Geyeh's fate was left ambiguous until The Shattering came out; and despite his supposed redemption, the writers took every opportunity to take a dig at Garrosh. He was put in scenes with Thrall and others simply to be the voice of the angry orcs who didn't like dividing up and an advocate of conflict - every war-themed series needs one, and such characters are often focal points for fan hatred. But the result of Garrosh being reduced to that one guy throughout Wrath was that his appointment as Warchief was received with such a bile-choking rage as hasn't been seen again, save perhaps the reaction to Mass Effect 3's original ending.

And throughout Cataclysm's first patch (and The Shattering) his character was given half-explored moments of awesome or failure that seem to have been selectively interpreted to the point of obsession.* What followed after that expansion (which was stupidly made all about Thrall) was a rising tide of increasingly terrible situations, kick-the-dog moments and moments where Vol'jin or someone like him yelled the equivalent of "He has a wallet, shoot him!" while pointing at Garrosh.

And so I ask what you would have done with the entire Horde/Alliance run, because it's clear they were all failed by this expansion. Every last one of them. The book did little better. Garrosh is only the tip of a heavy iceberg.

*The debacle over Cairne's death alone remains a sore point to me today, because of the utter deluge of misinformation surrounding it. And Blizzard were no help at all; they've encouraged it, even capitalised on it if you look into the quotes thrown around during Patch 5.4. Sickening, such backtracking.
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:30 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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The X of this question is - Garrosh wasn't as well-liked by the fanbase, and since he was already an aggressive warlord, why not take it to it's logical conclusion.

As Azeroth's version of Hitler
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:04 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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I blame it on butthurt Alliance and limp-dicked Horde. Alliance whined about Garrosh's ability to win, and Horde whined about Garrosh liking to fight. So of course Blizzard had to cater to them. Garrosh could have been an interesting character, an effective but imperfect Warchief among a franchise of magical superheroes.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:08 PM
Last of the Thunderlords Last of the Thunderlords is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas View Post
The X of this question is - Garrosh wasn't as well-liked by the fanbase, and since he was already an aggressive warlord, why not take it to it's logical conclusion.

As Azeroth's version of Hitler
*sigh* Your words ring of the uncomfortable truth.

Even so, Blizzard could have pulled the long haul with Garrosh - I hate to be insistent, but it's a thought I can't get out of my head - if they'd done just a small handful of things differently. Not kill Dranosh, force Garrosh and Thrall to sort out their issues, hell they could have developed Garrosh and Varian into something resembling fire-forged friends - not actual friends, of course, too much bad blood, but at least a little less fighting.

And on the subject of King Chin, well, his reformation happened too spontaneously. It felt every bit as forced as Garrosh's antagonism. If he and Garrosh had actually been mor subtle in their shifts, with us left asking for a while whether one was really better than the other, it might have been interesting to see if Varian was every bit as hateful as he made himself look, or whether Garrosh truly was the villain people painted him as. But from Theramore onwards, the predictable happened. Yeah.

Had I my way, the worgen thing would have come up again. Greymane would have returned to the fore. If necessary, we worgen could be given the chance to crush high-ranking Forsaken for invading our homeland, enslaving us, killing Liam and plaguing our city. Also, more about Velen and the draenei. Have they kept good on their vow to help the Alliance? Are they scrutinising Azerothian races, both sentient and savage, for the Army of Light that will take the fight to the Legion when they come?

Simply put, we should have got more answers to what was going on with various races. Few answers were given. That kind of annoys me. I don't like having to use my imagination to get answers about lore.

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Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
I blame it on butthurt Alliance and limp-dicked Horde. Alliance whined about Garrosh's ability to win, and Horde whined about Garrosh liking to fight. So of course Blizzard had to cater to them. Garrosh could have been an interesting character, an effective but imperfect Warchief among a franchise of magical superheroes.
This. I agree totally.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:21 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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To list a few:

* Crappy Design that looked nothing like Hellscream.
* No backstory, when did Grom have a kid, how long has he known Jorin, did Geyah raise him herself, how old is he supposed to be?
* Given a sympathetic moments far too late, while with Varian he was added an ingame sympathetic moment in The Deathbringer Saurfang battle.
* Unlike Varian, he got no comic book series, or any backstory at all really.

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Originally Posted by Last of the Thunderlords View Post
*The debacle over Cairne's death alone remains a sore point to me today, because of the utter deluge of misinformation surrounding it. And Blizzard were no help at all; they've encouraged it, even capitalised on it if you look into the quotes thrown around during Patch 5.4. Sickening, such backtracking.
All that did was make Baine less likable.

New Bad Fanfic based Baine: Garrosh isn't responsible for Cairne's death it was Magatha. Derp, oh wait he is now!
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:28 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
I blame it on butthurt Alliance and limp-dicked Horde. Alliance whined about Garrosh's ability to win, and Horde whined about Garrosh liking to fight. So of course Blizzard had to cater to them. Garrosh could have been an interesting character, an effective but imperfect Warchief among a franchise of magical superheroes.
Soo... You blame the Alliance for being unable to win because Blizzard refused to write them to win? It couldn't possibly be because the Alliance didn't have their own moments explored.. Not at all..

Anyway, the clear answer is actually pretty simple.

They set out to write Garrosh as an epic character. Plain and simple, by their own words, when they sat down to create Garrosh, he would have either been the greatest hero or worst villain.


He fell short on both. Not because he didn't have the potential to be one or the other (or both!) but because he wasn't an organic character from the very start. They didn't sit down and write Garrosh as someone who would be molded into X or Y.. They made the mold for X or Y and then shoved Garrosh into it.

And that's not how you write.

Yes, you should have some sort of end game for characters. You should have some sort of path. You should also have their life mapped out. You should know "why" they act the way they act, and you should have events trigger those "whys" and at least give the impression of organic and natural characters.

Blizzard doesn't do that.

Garrosh is the latest and most obvious victim.

Garrosh is a bit like someone taking Gotham city and trying to write a greater hero or a greater villain than Batman or The Joker respectively, but only because they want them to be greater, not because of he just happened to grow that way.

Garrosh was a bit like making a monster movie out of the blue and if Garrosh was the monster, he'd go toe to toe with Godzilla as the first creature he fights because you need him to be EPIC RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR.

Garrosh was handled as a game changer before he was even really introduced to the players. Before he was even written at all, really.

Garrosh never got to be a character. He was only ever a plot device, written for the sole reason of making something happen.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:41 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Last of the Thunderlords View Post
*sigh* Your words ring of the uncomfortable truth.

Even so, Blizzard could have pulled the long haul with Garrosh - I hate to be insistent, but it's a thought I can't get out of my head - if they'd done just a small handful of things differently. Not kill Dranosh, force Garrosh and Thrall to sort out their issues, hell they could have developed Garrosh and Varian into something resembling fire-forged friends - not actual friends, of course, too much bad blood, but at least a little less fighting.

And on the subject of King Chin, well, his reformation happened too spontaneously. It felt every bit as forced as Garrosh's antagonism. If he and Garrosh had actually been mor subtle in their shifts, with us left asking for a while whether one was really better than the other, it might have been interesting to see if Varian was every bit as hateful as he made himself look, or whether Garrosh truly was the villain people painted him as. But from Theramore onwards, the predictable happened. Yeah.

Had I my way, the worgen thing would have come up again. Greymane would have returned to the fore. If necessary, we worgen could be given the chance to crush high-ranking Forsaken for invading our homeland, enslaving us, killing Liam and plaguing our city. Also, more about Velen and the draenei. Have they kept good on their vow to help the Alliance? Are they scrutinising Azerothian races, both sentient and savage, for the Army of Light that will take the fight to the Legion when they come?

Simply put, we should have got more answers to what was going on with various races. Few answers were given. That kind of annoys me. I don't like having to use my imagination to get answers about lore
.
Yes I would have liked this more.

I guess a morally gray faction war is impossible to do in Blizzard's mind, sadly. We have to have it bogged down by immense whitewashing and borification certain races, while also being forced to play foil to a middle grounded third party.

Pandaria may have just been the worst way to end the faction war. Should have been something else like the South Seas, away from constant pandaren philosophizing.
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:17 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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People probably know how I feel about Varian and Garrosh

Both have too much importance, hard to swallow origins and are handled the authority to do as they please as if the factions had just been waiting on someone to come on in and take the seat.

However I think that Garrosh´s main flaw is consistency, he never felt like a character.

He could have been explored more and given more motivations


You could have made it so that in TBC the survivors of the expedition had harrased his people, and he could have knowledge that if Ner´Zhul had been let alone Draenor would have been fine and dandy.
There you would give him a huge one, it was those meddling humans that are to blame for the destruction of my homeworld (never let logic get in the way of a explainable bias tho)

Also you could have made him venerate his father from the start, believing that Grom fought till the end to protect the portal gates and save Draenor and then later finding out that he made it out and continued to slay Mannoroth, in his eyes I could see him trying to fill his father´s shoes and embracing his legacy from the get go

To show that even war mongerers are people id have him be super brothers with Dranosh, being his right hand man or even his superior but having shades of rescenting not being able to lead in his stead (the classic, hes good but I could do better if given the chance)

Come Wotlk it would be Dranosh who leads the northrend offensive, so far hes been befriending the Alliance forces under Bolvar a bit too... much but while Garrosh is nuts that they are allies to the world shattering mongrels he falls in line.

Comes the Wrathgate and the horde is the first to arrive as it does it best to tend the survivors, comes the alliance and believing that the horde just backstabbed them they fight and fuel his hatred.

Here Garrosh salvages the northrend campaing after Dranosh and now you have a justification for him being seen as the messiah that led through disaster and saw the Lich King fall.

Now he has everyone eating from his hand and with Thrall leaving to shamanland he would be the one.

As the story progresses it would be more and more clear that Garrosh would not mind seens Azeroth suffer a similar fate than Draenor did and that Orcs, Taurens, Trolls and blood elves are all expendable in his power trip to destroy the Alliance or make sure that everybody loses and with the whole old gods ordeal it is easier to make everything go kaboom.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:28 AM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
Garrosh could have been an interesting character, an effective but imperfect Warchief among a franchise of magical superheroes.
To me, he was exactly this in Cata and Shattering, which is probably the reason he became my favourite character and he still is, even as a villain (or perhaps especially as a villain, because it appears to me that Garrosh became more badass and awesome in MoP than he ever was before. That's just me, though).

What really bugged me about him was the explanation for him suddenly becoming a villain, because there wasn't any. He all of a sudden just made a complete personality swap in Tides of War and ignored any development he had before. Like I said, I still like him as a villain, but Tides of War did jackshit to explain why he suddenly became the way he did.

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Old 05-07-2014, 08:46 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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I think it has more to do with players just hating the guy on principle than anything. No one is interested in his merits or his point of view. He's simply always at fault and he doesn't actually have any sort of point to make.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:55 AM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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I think it has more to do with players just hating the guy on principle than anything. No one is interested in his merits or his point of view. He's simply always at fault and he doesn't actually have any sort of point to make.
Truth be told, I really got that impression from time to time.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:15 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Introduction: Unlikeable because too depressed

Wotlk: Unlikable because disrespected Thrall in the Scourge Event, and then was a jackass to both the players and Saurfang, which is where things really went south.

It was too... -blunt- that he was going to be a bad guy, and everyone was unhappy with that, so Blizz backtracked a tad for Cata and the Shattering to try and make him look like someone that could grow... and then just jumped off the deep end.


Garrosh was made to look crazy and stupid up until the plot demanded otherwise and while we're told he learned and at times he seemed smarter he was never actually -shown- learning.

Except maybe stonetalon... which is a lesson we never saw applied again.

And while yeah we can argue maybe he saw Old-God stuff -differently- than demonblood, it's still a comparison that should've been brought up ingame.

Lots of things regarding grom should've been brought up ingame, like Jaina helping to cleanse him after the second dose of mannoroth's blood.

Garrosh really only makes sense if no one sat down and talked to him about his dad or used any argument against his policies beyond "War is Bad M'kay?"
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:33 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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I think it has more to do with players just hating the guy on principle than anything. No one is interested in his merits or his point of view. He's simply always at fault and he doesn't actually have any sort of point to make.
I wanted to like Garrosh, but...

Well. He was seemingly made deliberately unlikable.

His first appearance is mopey until he rediscovers his pride. There seemed to be hope here...

Except that by his second appearance he's acting like a belligerent asshat and continues on this way for some time. Saurfang has to clean up his messes when he just ignores problems that could wipe out his forces, and generally reveals that he's kind of an idiot.

By the time of Cataclysm he no longer possesses any real resemblance to his father, and just looks like a mouthbreathing microcephalic imbecile. Atop of that, he offends every single other Horde leader he encounters.

He wasn't a respectable Military Leader, and he certainly didn't come across as a competent candidate for Political Leader.

Almost every leader story involving him just made him look worse and worse.

It wasn't just that he was an asshole, he was an incompetent asshole.

Grom was described as at least being able to restrain his bloodrage and fight with skill. Garrosh? He didn't even have a bloodrage, but was still more of a berserker than Grom ever was.

There were glimmers of hope for him here and there...

But they were all outweighed by the times he just behaved like a rabid mountain gorilla.

People reacted negatively to Garrosh, because Garrosh was portrayed negatively in almost every single one of his appearances. He was even made to look like a brainless brute.

People had more respect for Blackhand than they did for Garrosh. Blackhand could be diplomatic and clever. Garrosh just relied on Orcs falling over themselves to worship the pureblooded sample of herospawn.

Or so it seemed to be portrayed.

He's a grown fucking Orc, who by all rights should be older than Thrall... Well into his thirties at the very least...

And he's a petulant brat with daddy issues.

There's also the feeling that every single one of his victories was carried by the Players having to fix his mistakes.

If they wanted to make him a Hero that people could honestly appreciate, they should have made him mature, capable of self-restraint, intelligent, actually look like Grom, and lead real victories that didn't involve incredible feats of stupidity.

But that Garrosh doesn't exist, and I have no idea how that Garrosh ever could. He has none of the excuses his Father had, and ended up just being worse.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:29 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
I blame it on butthurt Alliance and limp-dicked Horde. Alliance whined about Garrosh's ability to win, and Horde whined about Garrosh liking to fight. So of course Blizzard had to cater to them. Garrosh could have been an interesting character, an effective but imperfect Warchief among a franchise of magical superheroes.
I blame it on Garrosh appearance and the Horde players only; the Alliance and its players have nothing to do with it. Just look at Sylvanas : she can literally come out unscathed by what she did since Vanilla, because she has boobs and looks sexy ingame. She is the living proof that it is not being an aggressive leader or someone who attacks the Alliance and always win which caused problem to the Horde fan-base.

It was is appearance and the fact that he dared oppose Thrall in a frontal manner. Plain and simple.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:30 AM
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It's true that opposing Thrall didn't help him, but its certainly not the only thing.

Garrosh was portrayed as a fuckup and a jackass who regularly insulted the players.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:00 PM
Nessy Nessy is offline

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Garrosh was, I think, an attempt to create another Arthas-type character: a character with some great potential whose insecurities and character flaws eventually lead them to walking down the path of the villain. However... I think different writers had different ideas on where he should be in that development, so we get the weird flip-floppy Garrosh of cata. Moreover, we didn't really get a chance to see him in a good light at all before the writing starts pushing him down the villain path... except they tried to do some of that in Cataclysm, but by then we'd already seen him act like a jerk in Northrend so it just felt weird.

That being said, there were some parts of Garrosh's story that I really liked! Like how he's so anti-warlock in the Ashenvale questline, and how you start liking him a little better there, until he starts using dark shamanism and you realize how he's basically parroting off things he thinks he knows about "orc culture", while having absolutely no understanding or context of what that culture actually is, and how that actually calls back to The Shattering, where he didn't even know how a mak'gora actually worked. The dark shamanism/warlock thing also ties into his need for control and dominance, which sort of ties back into his idolation of his father (or rather the idea of his father) who chose not to let himself be controlled. Et cetera.

There was a lot of stuff to like about Garrosh, imo! I've enjoyed his character arc, and I'm glad it's not over. But there's no denying Blizzard flubbed it up in its critical early stages, which is unfortunate.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:50 PM
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It's true that opposing Thrall didn't help him, but its certainly not the only thing.

Garrosh was portrayed as a fuckup and a jackass who regularly insulted the players.
He opposed Thrall on the grounds of whether or not to take the fight to the Scourge. Something that the Horde as a whole was divided on. Of course, this was at the time in Warcraft's history where Thrall was considered to be the messiah by the player base and could do no wrong, so of course he was right and Garrosh was a bone head for suggesting otherwise.

Anyway, I love to play devil's advocate. If anyone wants to discuss anything in particular about Garrosh, like a specific quest where he's supposedly an idiot, I'll argue from his point of view and the merit of his strategies.

Seriously, just because x character thinks differently doesn't mean that Garrosh is wrong.

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Old 05-07-2014, 01:01 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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I blame it on Garrosh appearance and the Horde players only; the Alliance and its players have nothing to do with it. Just look at Sylvanas : she can literally come out unscathed by what she did since Vanilla, because she has boobs and looks sexy ingame. She is the living proof that it is not being an aggressive leader or someone who attacks the Alliance and always win which caused problem to the Horde fan-base.

It was is appearance and the fact that he dared oppose Thrall in a frontal manner. Plain and simple.
Like you said, Sylvannas has boobs and looks sexy in game. In order for the Alliance to get the win they wanted ever since idk how long there needs to be a scapegoat. It sure as hell can't be Sylvannas either for the very reason you brought up. Ironically, there are still Alliance players that aren't satisfied with SoO. Garrosh got thrown under the bus for absolutely dick shit.
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:05 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Like you said, Sylvannas has boobs and looks sexy in game. In order for the Alliance to get the win they wanted ever since idk how long there needs to be a scapegoat. It sure as hell can't be Sylvannas either for the very reason you brought up. Ironically, there are still Alliance players that aren't satisfied with SoO. Garrosh got thrown under the bus for absolutely dick shit.
Since SoO was tailor made to make the Horde looks good, yes, Alliance players are unsatisfied. It is one of the many reasons SoO was bad and just an end to the Horde feast that was WoW since TBC. I just hope that this trend will end with WoD.
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:07 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Since SoO was tailor made to make the Horde looks good, yes, Alliance players are unsatisfied. It is one of the many reasons SoO was bad and just an end to the Horde feast that was WoW since TBC. I just hope that this trend will end with WoD.
How the hell is the Orc capital being conquered, various orc characters killed, and the Horde killing itself while the Alliance NPCs literally laugh about it making the Horde look good?
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #21  
Old 05-07-2014, 01:29 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
How the hell is the Orc capital being conquered, various orc characters killed, and the Horde killing itself while the Alliance NPCs literally laugh about it making the Horde look good?
The Horde reclaimed their underdog title and stood up to a tyrant for what they believed in at the risk of their own lives! Even though if you really think about it, they did nothing of the sort. However, as shallow as the rebellion against Garrosh was, the fact that Horde players hated him was enough to make Vol'jin and the rest of them appear heroic.

Meanwhile, Alliance side, the player is left to wonder why they're even involved in the first place. Both the Rebels and the True Horde are enemies. The rebels do nothing to set them apart as being any different. They aren't any nicer or friendly. Just weaker.

At least, if the Alliance actually ever acted like it was actually fighting a war for it's survival, they would be. Unfortunately, the stakes are never actually portrayed as such. There isn't even a single npc in the entire game that talks about WINNING the war.

Really, what is so bad about the Horde that the Alliance just has to fight them? The case is never made. Jaina hates the Horde for obvious reasons, but she jumps from one extreme to the next and never articulates why the Horde needs to be taken down beyond the fact that she is very angry at them.

Why is the Horde bad? If I didn't use headcanon and my own set of personal values, I couldn't make a case for it. The game never says why the Horde is bad. By all accounts, the Horde is perfect in every way and beyond trial and error.
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2014, 03:27 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Garrosh's greatest failure is how he failed his father. He failed Grom in failing to learn from his mistakes. Orcs used to venerate their ancestors. I'm betting they learned as much from their ancestor's mistakes as they did their triumphs.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2014, 04:58 PM
Bullroarer Bullroarer is offline

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"what would the old bull do?"

Garrosh said this in reference to Cairne.

Garrosh was for all intents and purposes, an ape.

He was hot head in northrend because he was aping dad

In Cata he took Saurfang's lessons and aped them.

He aped High Chieftain Cliffwalker and showed mercy

He pandaria he aped his new Blackrock cohorts.

Lor'themar, "So garrosh is using the Mogu as role models"

Whether it was Grom, Saurfang, the mogu, Cliffwalker, or whoever. Garrosh was never his own man.
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  #24  
Old 05-07-2014, 05:01 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Originally Posted by Bullroarer View Post
"what would the old bull do?"
"Attempt to murder an innocent man"
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  #25  
Old 05-07-2014, 07:24 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullroarer View Post
"what would the old bull do?"

Garrosh said this in reference to Cairne.

Garrosh was for all intents and purposes, an ape.

He was hot head in northrend because he was aping dad

In Cata he took Saurfang's lessons and aped them.

He aped High Chieftain Cliffwalker and showed mercy

He pandaria he aped his new Blackrock cohorts.

Lor'themar, "So garrosh is using the Mogu as role models"

Whether it was Grom, Saurfang, the mogu, Cliffwalker, or whoever. Garrosh was never his own man.
You know, you have a point here. It's obvious he was aping his old man with the Heart of Y'shaarj. If he were to really learn from Grom though, he'd learn from his mistakes.
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