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  #7751  
Old 12-27-2017, 01:25 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Morvant View Post
Any link at all between the Primals and the Void Lords/Old Gods ?
There may be a conceptual one.

There's this narrative that the Light is about a set destiny, predestination, order, stagnation, while the Void is about multiple possibilities, freedom, everything-is-true, madness.

Which state more closely resembles freedom, multiple possibilities? Life. Organic life, ever-evolving, ever-changing, relentlessly adapting. Which one more closely resembles the perfect stagnation that the Light supposedly wants? Death. Eternal slumber.

I must say, however, that I don't think they were already planning this Light/Void narrative back when Chronicles was first being written. The way Light and Void are described in the first book doesn't fit the later lore.
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  #7752  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:11 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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What exactly is draenethyst and how does the lost ones needing it to keep their sanity fit in modern lore?
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  #7753  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:33 PM
Thornedale Thornedale is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
There may be a conceptual one.
Which state more closely resembles freedom, multiple possibilities? Life. Organic life, ever-evolving, ever-changing, relentlessly adapting. Which one more closely resembles the perfect stagnation that the Light supposedly wants? Death. Eternal slumber.
Working towards a goal is never without its turns, highs and lows, triumphs and losses. It might not even end up the way it was devised, but that depends on the will and reason of people implementing it, and their ability to make their vision real adequately in the ever-changing circumstances.

That is a thing about any endeavour that has a broad scope. Same is correct for any historical project with a sufficient perspective. A project is based on an acknowledgement that current conditions do not meet the criteria and it strives to change them for the sake of what is considered a better state of affairs, which in turn can be achieved only by changing the people, subjects of a project, by giving them new qualities. Think of, say, the Enlightenment -- at its core, it was a lot like this.

To quote a character from another Blizzard universe, "intent [is] static, product [is] fluid".

"Life", the way you have described it, is without a goal and reason; nothing drives it towards anything because of nothing. At max it just adapts to the circumstances. Titans, as far as we know, were the first to actually direct it according to the mission they have taken on themselves: to order the universe, stave the Void away and help other world-souls shape.

Think of it as education: it introduces structures and complexity where there was none, so the "medium" (i.e. a child, a person, etc.) can first access that which was done before it, and then be able, at max, to create something on its own, or at least operate in the created environment that is culture. It's more than heuristics, and certainly more than just casting a supposedly never changing brick; it's development.

That is another reason why I find the idea of "Light-forging" and such absurd. Previously Light was supposed to be a personal life-long endeavour, a project which necessitated changing oneself, a tao, so to say, to be actively pursued and a worldview which can't be realized without having discriminating convictions ("is\is not"; etc.) and entailing, but freely made actions of consequence. Following Light had an intersubjective purpose but also a profound influence on individual subjects. A person was limiting, straining oneself for the sake of achieving another state; he didn't "die", or become "stagnant", or "devoid of personality" -- it was this same person, but with a different set of qualities that were results of his\her conscious efforts, not some windchime's imprint.

Something that has an intent and acts under ever-changing circumstances can't be "static". It endures, builds, and either achieves or fails -- again and again, if it doesn't give up or can't act anymore. A realized project also "lives" in the sense that it has to react, improve, mend that which is broken. Complex systems like these don't function and reproduce "on their own", they require conscious maintenance by participants, which quite an effort in itself. That necessitates a tradition.

While "life" stirs, a conscious subject with a purpose evaluates, considers and acts. There is no stagnance in that. It's either that, or have "change" itself be of greatest value, and become a derivative complement of abstract "nature", "progress" or even "fate" (the latter makes Light's portrayal in Legion even more absurd).
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  #7754  
Old 01-07-2018, 10:56 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Is Helheim inside the Shadowlands or no?
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  #7755  
Old 01-07-2018, 04:59 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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We don't know where exactly it is. I think all we know is that it's a pocket dimension, that Helya created because that's kind of her thing. My theory is that she took a small pocket of the Abyssal Maw and made her realm there.
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  #7756  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:08 PM
Al'Akir Al'Akir is offline

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So, with 7.3.5 and all, is Argus now gone from the sky for everyone, or is that just for people who have finished Antorus?
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  #7757  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:47 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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So, with 7.3.5 and all, is Argus now gone from the sky for everyone, or is that just for people who have finished Antorus?
Gone for me too, and I haven't beaten the goat Titan yet.
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  #7758  
Old 01-21-2018, 07:03 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Did silithyst have any sort of story behind it?
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  #7759  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:03 AM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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wheers my smol vulpera gf at
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  #7760  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:28 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
wheers my smol vulpera gf at
Never.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #7761  
Old 04-12-2018, 10:53 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Can undead trolls use shamanism?
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #7762  
Old 04-12-2018, 10:46 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Undead Icon (War3)

I am inclined to say yes, given that there are undead monks and they manipulate the same energies. However, some elementals may be unwilling to deal with the undead (or race XYZ). We also have the Ymirjar Dusk Shaman, but their abilities unfortunately are completely unrelated to the elements. Alternatively, one could look at Dazar in B4A; while he seems to be more of a warrior, he does make use of the elements like a shaman would despite being undead.
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  #7763  
Old 05-08-2018, 08:18 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Have we ever seen a dragon turn into an animal or has it only been humanoids?
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  #7764  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:57 PM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

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Have we ever seen a dragon turn into an animal or has it only been humanoids?
Yes. If you wait awhile in the caverns of time you can see a Time Watcher turn into a wisp for Hyjal or a crocolisk for black morass.
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