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Old 03-22-2014, 04:27 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Default What's in a Worgen?

I've been struck by the Worgen fever, and obviously, everybody else must find them as fascinating as I do, so here's the Worgen thread for all things Worgen.

Now, let's start by asking, what's a Worgen? Good question, Lev! A blank canvas, is what they are. Their's is a sad story, but at the same time, it's an opportunity for me to ask an even better question: what do you want the Worgen to be? Beasts resembling a crossbreed between man and wolf, Gilneans in wolf's clothing, furry night elves or a mixture?

For me, what made the Worgen interesting was their feral nature and how little we knew about their origins. The fact that the playable Worgen were Gilnean was mostly a neat bonus because it would've allowed Blizzard to show us how much becoming a Worgen changes a man. I mean, what better example than the one breed of men that's the most technologically advanced and sophisticated? How interesting it would've been to learn about feral Worgen customs and behaviour, during our characters' brief stint as one, and then reconcile their new behaviour with their Gilnean lifestyle. It's a shame that both lifestyles were pushed aside almost entirely for the night elves', but I choose to see it as an opportunity. Why? Because the alternative is sad.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:35 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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There doesn't really seem to be a downside to the Curse, at least once you've got it under control which doesn't seem to be much of a problem now. You can go back into your human form, you become bigger, badder, more aggressive and powerful when you're in a fight, Genn notes that it makes him feel younger so presumably there's some other perks there.

The only downside is that you seem to get more of a temper, but being Alliance this means that amounts to growling a bit rather than it actually posing any negative side effects.

At this point Stormwind might as well offer blood transfusions to its soldiers, especially if it's going Stupid Good on the Forsaken.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:49 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
There doesn't really seem to be a downside to the Curse, at least once you've got it under control which doesn't seem to be much of a problem now. You can go back into your human form, you become bigger, badder, more aggressive and powerful when you're in a fight, Genn notes that it makes him feel younger so presumably there's some other perks there.

The only downside is that you seem to get more of a temper, but being Alliance this means that amounts to growling a bit rather than it actually posing any negative side effects.

At this point Stormwind might as well offer blood transfusions to its soldiers, especially if it's going Stupid Good on the Forsaken.
Yeah, to be honest, the portrayal of the Worgen in WOW makes you ask why almost nobody wants to become one. I can only think of that Gnome in Stonetalon and the members of the Wolf Cult. Hell, I'd expect the RAS to be trying to transfer the "curse" to the Forsaken.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:23 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Worgen are gonna be the new Draenei.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:34 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Worgen are gonna be the new Draenei.
Alternate timeline where we explore the years they spent as ferals? Oh, boy, that'd be nice.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:46 AM
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So can worgen stay in their human form permanently then?
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:06 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
Worgen are gonna be the new Draenei.
They already are. They actually had less representation in MoP than Draenei had (or didn't have) in WotLK.

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So can worgen stay in their human form permanently then?
I'm guessing it's as long as they're not provoked. Presumably it's linked to adrenaline/stress.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:12 AM
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So can worgen stay in their human form permanently then?
Well, the people of Darkshore haven't found out that Tobias is cursed yet, so pretty much, yeah. Just avoid fights and you're set.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:53 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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Yeah when Sylvanas asks Darius why he didn't pass the curse on to Lorna, I was kinda like, "Good question, Sylly." The curse of the worgen isn't as dramatic as it could be, and yeah, why hasn't Varian signed up?

Maybe they can't have sex without turning into worgen and people get weirded out. That's a believable downside.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:54 AM
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Yeah when Sylvanas asks Darius why he didn't pass the curse on to Lorna, I was kinda like, "Good question, Sylly." The curse of the worgen isn't as dramatic as it could be, and yeah, why hasn't Varian signed up?

Maybe they can't have sex without turning into worgen and people get weirded out. That's a believable downside.
Or it turns people sterile.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:57 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Yeah, to be honest, the portrayal of the Worgen in WOW makes you ask why almost nobody wants to become one. I can only think of that Gnome in Stonetalon and the members of the Wolf Cult. Hell, I'd expect the RAS to be trying to transfer the "curse" to the Forsaken.
Blizzard never did comment on this. I know in some Worgen RP communities they've agreed that Worgen are sterile, and can only reproduce through infecting humans, and that's their drawback. It essentially puts them on the same level of the Forsaken in terms of procreation. Though its headcanon and fanon.

The issue is that the Worgen had their problem solved in their starting zone. To give an equivalent example, it'd be like if the Blood Elves had the Sunwell back before leaving Sunstrider Isle. In a way, the Worgen had their opportunity for a story taken away from them.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:14 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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Why would they be sterile?
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:57 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Why would they be sterile?
As a drawback and for no other reason, really.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:59 AM
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As a drawback and for no other reason, really.
And maybe to prevent druids from mating with real animals, I guess.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:21 AM
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So how does the Scythe of Elune factor into this? Does it create worgen, can it control them, is it used to easily kill them or...?
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:24 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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So how does the Scythe of Elune factor into this? Does it create worgen, can it control them, is it used to easily kill them or...?
It can create and control worgen. It's why Sylvanas was so keen to get her hands on it. She wanted to create an army of worgen to fight for her.

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And maybe to prevent druids from mating with real animals, I guess.
Oddly enough, while a druid can go feral if they spend too much time in their animal form, there isn't a single reference of any druid sucessfuly mating with a real animal. But if they are a true animal while in animal form and able to go feral, then you would think that there would be nothing stopping them from being able to mate with other animals.

Probably because Blizzard has ignored it or figured that it doesn't happen.

Which is why druids need to be tameable by hunters. If you can be a animal, then you can be tamed like a animal.

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As a drawback and for no other reason, really.
True, and also because in most werewolf lore, werewolves don't give birth to werewolves or give birth at all. They spread their gift through the blood/scratches/bites.

I think that in "Being Human" the two werewolves did have a kid and it was treated as something incredibly rare that they didn't even know that werewolves could get pregnant.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:52 AM
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Yeah, to be honest, the portrayal of the Worgen in WOW makes you ask why almost nobody wants to become one. I can only think of that Gnome in Stonetalon and the members of the Wolf Cult. Hell, I'd expect the RAS to be trying to transfer the "curse" to the Forsaken.
It might be a matter of principle. Not everyone wants to be violent, for one thing. Some good and Light-faring Gilneans might want to preserve their sane rationality, their ability to subvert passion and keep a clear head. The Worgen curse violates that entirely, by literally forcing one to transform into a manifestation of rage and anger.

Secondly, I can imagine a good deal of vanity being involved. I, for example, would not want to look like a wolfen fiend. I can imagine there many people who do not want to look like that, either.

Thirdly, the idea of being "unclean" or "cursed" in of itself is a social construct that might make people fearful, even if the reality of the "curse" is not so bad in of itself. This would not be the first time in human history whereby people were claimed to have "bad auras", or be "cursed", "back luck". And, since we know Gilneans are superstitious, this does not surprise me.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:18 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Or it turns people sterile.
Isn't the Curse just a glorified Druid form though? So, I can't really see why it would. Passing it down through the blood might make things- well, complicated though.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:18 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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As a drawback and for no other reason, really.
That's not even a drawback for a lot of guys I know.
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Probably because Blizzard has ignored it or figured that it doesn't happen.
Anyone read any of the Belgariad series? A shapeshifting wizard (who's like 1000s of years old) spends a couple centuries as a wolf, falls in love and has children with a wolf, teaches the wolf magic, and then they both turn into human and wolf as they please.

I mean I guess it's magic so we can attach any number of arbitrary rules to it, but if you're an animal, you're an animal, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe a bunch of druids have lost themselves to their animal sides and disappeared into a pack somewhere to live out their days?
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True, and also because in most werewolf lore, werewolves don't give birth to werewolves or give birth at all. They spread their gift through the blood/scratches/bites.
Well in its original mythical inception werewolves had made pacts with the devil to either become wolves when they die, or were given magical belts that would turn them into wolves during a full moon, or were being punished by God. These arose in cultures that generally feared wolves as monsters and equated the wild with, essentially, the devil. There were werewolf trials in Europe that parallel the witch trials in America.

Both the depiction of anthropomorphic werewolves and the contagious element are a fairly modern (well, 20th century) conventions first depicted in movies.

The worgen are a fairly detached take on werewolves, relative to what we usually see, and seeding it in the Emerald Dream and night elf lore allows them to play by their own rules.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:26 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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It might be a matter of principle. Not everyone wants to be violent, for one thing. Some good and Light-faring Gilneans might want to preserve their sane rationality, their ability to subvert passion and keep a clear head. The Worgen curse violates that entirely, by literally forcing one to transform into a manifestation of rage and anger.

Secondly, I can imagine a good deal of vanity being involved. I, for example, would not want to look like a wolfen fiend. I can imagine there many people who do not want to look like that, either.

Thirdly, the idea of being "unclean" or "cursed" in of itself is a social construct that might make people fearful, even if the reality of the "curse" is not so bad in of itself. This would not be the first time in human history whereby people were claimed to have "bad auras", or be "cursed", "back luck". And, since we know Gilneans are superstitious, this does not surprise me.
Yeah, I get why some people might be opposed, but I still think that the demand should be higher than it is. More so when you consider that this is Azeroth, the world where people willingly turn into shades.

Hmmm, let's put it to an test, who amongst us would dislike, not mind or like being a Worgen if they were real?

I for one would not like forcibly being turned into a stinky mutt whenever I feel agitated. I don't really want to smell like a dog, and not having enough control would be quite bothersome. It would be a convenient power-up, however.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:34 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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Well if it was in the real world the drawbacks are clear. Bone cancer.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:41 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Isn't the Curse just a glorified Druid form though? So, I can't really see why it would. Passing it down through the blood might make things- well, complicated though.
It's a twisted "super druid" form. Originally was the wolf or "Pack" form. But unlike the other druid forms, it had serious rage/control issues which was a side effect of a form based upon Goldrinn. Scythe of Elune was created in order to calm them and then Goldrinn twisted Elune's magic and turned the Pack form into the worgen form.

One would think, if the Curse is passed through blood, then a female worgen's blood would pass it onto any child that they have.

But like others have said, most of it seems to be wanting to give the Curse a real downside because there really isn't any downside to being a worgen. Even the cure evidently gets passed through by drinking the blood of a cured worgen, as seen with the Hillsbrad worgen.

So if the only way that you can reproduce is via biting, or drinking blood, then it really lends itself to some moral quandries.

If it's still a Curse, and Varian and others refer to it as a Blessing, then is this something that you want to pass to others? Do the Gilneans want to have worgen children and continue the worgen lifestyle, or do they want to go back to being a human society and just let the worgen curse run it's course so in a generation, Gilneas is a human kingdom instead of a worgen kingdom.

Stuff like that, which I do wish that Blizzard would address instead of ignoring it.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:18 AM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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I don't think I've ever hidden that I find the Druids of the Scythe/NE Worgen more interesting that the Gilnean Worgen. With that being said, however, I have no dislike of the Gilneans either.

I think a good way to handle them would quite simply be to get them out of Darnassus and into Stormwind. I understand the reasoning for Darnassus, the NEs were making up for causing this mess in the first place, but ultimately that decision is what turned them into "furry NEs" I think. Put them in Stormwind, in and around humans, and while it may not give them more facetime the ones that do feature probably won't feel like that.
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You know, when I put the "i hate all of you" tag in threads, I'm not trying to be funny or cute. With a handful of exceptions, I really do hate almost everybody here.

It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:44 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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I've always wondered what the deal was with Ivar and the Bloodfang worgen. It's a shame we haven't seen more of them. Is the idea that they can't turn human? Did they ignore or never meet Belysra?
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:00 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I've always wondered what the deal was with Ivar and the Bloodfang worgen. It's a shame we haven't seen more of them.
I agree, it's a shame that they seem to be more interested in fighting the Forsaken then the rest of the playable Gilnean worgen, who are more interested in saving the forests of Kalimdor.

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Is the idea that they can't turn human?
They can turn back human, but the game seems to treat the Bloodfang pack as a more feral pack since they evidently are made up of the Silverpine worgen/wolf cult worgen, so a feral worgen wouldn't turn back into their human form since they are more animal then human. Ivar admits that he prefers the worgen form so he chooses not to turn back.

Genn also made note of that as well, since in his worgen form he feels younger, is stronger and just superior in every way to his human form. So why choose to be weak when you can be superior?

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Did they ignore or never meet Belysra?
It's never stated in lore. Presumbly since Ivar is in full control of himself, he either took part in the ritual at some point, or was bitten/drank the blood of a cured worgen, since the cure seems to pass through that way.
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