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Old 09-17-2016, 12:13 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Lightbulb A completely revamped Azeroth!

Alrighty, so a while back there was this conversation on the Legion thread:

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Frankly, I do not see a "mere" revamp such as Cataclysm was really feasible. First, you have that problem where you either revamp the low level content and make some new end level content on top of that, which ultimately isn't really possible if you want do do both well, or you use the low level content for the end level content as well, which simply wouldn't work for most of the playerbase as long as it would be a a mere "revamp".
Second, you'd still have that problem where you have 1-60 set in the present time, and then several continents set somewhere in the past.

The only way I can see this work would be a complete remake of the old world. Remake the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor completely, use the level scaling and world quest system there and use this remade world for the whole level scale of 1-120 (assuming it'd be the next expansion). As for the other continents, simply make them accesible via the Caverns of Time (including the old Cataclysm world and even, if possible, the older Classic world), either to provide people with a leveling alternative, or simply a place to fool around.

This would actually allow the world to see some more radical changes, such as the removal/marginalization of the factions or a larger (and much needed, in my opinion) timeskip. You'd also free other continents, such as Outland or Northrend, for any future remakes as well, and you could also rebuilt the old world so that any future updates would require less effort, allowing you to keep it "modern" far more efficiently.
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Yeah, that'd be a good idea. There's plenty in EK and Kalimdor for 1-120 and then you can still go play old stuff in the Caverns of Time, even adding Classic world. Kind of a reboot of WoW, without actually being a reboot.
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Exactly. World of Warcraft 2.0 where World of Warcraft 1.0 would be accessible and playable via the Caverns of Time.
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The more I think about it, the more I think it would be the best for the game. Kind of a way to reset everything, go back to the cold war and simple world exploration of Classic. Just set it 40 years in the future. It allows for new plotlines without actually having to build them throughout expansions. Also allows a different take on expansions, going with Pandaria first, then Northrend, then Outland, etc.

RPers and nostlagic players could still go quest in the Caverns to see the old expansions and worlds. For cosmetics or achievements or something like that. It would definitely bring back players, I believe. Especially since they can level-scale for the old worlds.
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I'm not really sure just scaling the entire old world together would work; the whole idea of leveling at all becomes meaningless if your relative power level never budges at all for 60 whole levels.

It'd probably work better if 1-60 were divided into three 20-level zone "ranks" that internally scaled; that could bring a sort of connection between overpowering each "set" of zones and gaining the ability to travel faster. Then somewhere down the line each of the old expansions' level ranges might be scaled together within their own continents akin to the Broken Isles.

Admittedly any future applications of scaling are dependent upon whether they come out of Legion feeling that it accomplished what they wanted it to.
And for some reason I didn't participate in that.

NOW,

I propose you guys create your own version of what this revamped Old World would look like. Does it have a beautiful Dun Morogh like Highmountain? Is Ashenvale comparable to Val'Sharah? What goes on in Duskwood or the Plaguelands?

I also suggest you place this revamp in the context of a new expansion, be it Azshara, Old Gods or good ol' Alliance vs Horde.

Last edited by Shaman; 10-11-2016 at 02:16 AM..
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Old 09-19-2016, 02:27 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I must say, the more I think of this "remake of old Azeroth" expansion, the more I see it as a perfect follow up to Legion. See, one of the major themes found in the expansion is killing a great deal of the character cast. Another would be that this is invasion absolutely gargantuan, something one would expect to affect the world rather vastly. So, what better way to handle this is there than to have a reasonably large time skip, something that would allow Blizzard to bring in a lot of new blood to replace the lost old, yet something that would necessitate a remake of the old world to work properly?
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:26 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Hmmm, with the new scaling tech if they remade Azeroth fully scaleable and had all the zones central to the story that could actually have merit. Of course new levels are needed for end game. I'm not sure how fun it would be to go back and just go over old zones, nostalgia is one thing but something new is another entirely. Although I did enjoy taking some of my old toons through the low level cata stuff... It could be done well if it's different enough.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:05 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Hmmm, with the new scaling tech if they remade Azeroth fully scaleable and had all the zones central to the story that could actually have merit. Of course new levels are needed for end game. I'm not sure how fun it would be to go back and just go over old zones, nostalgia is one thing but something new is another entirely. Although I did enjoy taking some of my old toons through the low level cata stuff... It could be done well if it's different enough.
Wouldn't a complete remake technically count as something new? Say for example Ashenvale; if the remade it nearly from scratch and brought its fidelity to the level (or even to a level better than that) of Val'Sharah, wouldn't it count as a new zone visually and aesthetically?

Also, such a remade world would bring in an opportunity to introduce some sub-zones that did not make it originally for all various reasons, giving even some outright novelty to the geography in the end. Say for example, the Redridge Range; a remake of the world would allow Blizzard to present the range the way it has been described in lore for very long, even though it has never been reflected in the game itself. That being as true snowcapped mountains that cut the southern continent in half and lead up directly to the Burning Steppes, as per the concept below.

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Old 09-20-2016, 07:03 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Honestly, one of the problems of the old zones is their size. Westfall, for example, is rather tiny. The idea of combining some of them is probably a good idea.
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:33 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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The prospect of doing a rebuild of all of the game content that brought the fidelity up to the standard set by Legion would be amazing. Impossible to justify from an art asset expenditure standpoint, but AMAZING.

Look at Suramar. Imagine if ALL of the capital cities had that level of detail, and had as much content within the city itself in terms of self-contained narratives. Hell, the idea that Gnomeregan could actually become a capital city for the gnomes is a much more feasible prospect in this case. Getting the Exodar to a restored state. Retaking Gilneas.

Virtually every zone in EK/Kalimdor could be made more content-dense. There are still areas of the map that have zero content in them and the square footage there can really be used.

and what's the fucking point of that goblin resort town over silithus fucking WHY IS THAT NOT ACTUALLY CONTENT (i want to blow it up)
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:42 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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The thread! It's aliiiiive!

I can't stop imagining Mulgore and Stonetalon in Highmountain quality.

A bunch of relatively unused zones such as Winterspring and the Hinterlands could get a whole ton of content and questlines.

What expansion theme do you guys think would be most probable of giving us something like this? The Naga Strike Back? Revenge of the Old Gods?
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Old 09-21-2016, 01:56 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
The prospect of doing a rebuild of all of the game content that brought the fidelity up to the standard set by Legion would be amazing. Impossible to justify from an art asset expenditure standpoint, but AMAZING.

Look at Suramar. Imagine if ALL of the capital cities had that level of detail, and had as much content within the city itself in terms of self-contained narratives. Hell, the idea that Gnomeregan could actually become a capital city for the gnomes is a much more feasible prospect in this case. Getting the Exodar to a restored state. Retaking Gilneas.

Virtually every zone in EK/Kalimdor could be made more content-dense. There are still areas of the map that have zero content in them and the square footage there can really be used.

and what's the fucking point of that goblin resort town over silithus fucking WHY IS THAT NOT ACTUALLY CONTENT (i want to blow it up)
Indeed. Imagine the Azuremyst Isles terraformed to resemble Shadowmoon a bit and sprinkled with Draenei settlements not unlike those we could see in Warlords of Draenor, with Exodar repaired and floating above the islands. The forest of Elwynn looking as an actual forest. Teldrassil being a tree rather than a stump. Gilneas retaken and restored. Dalaran back in its original place, serving a mediator between the Forsaken and Gilneas.

One could also imagine that some zones would undergo a rather vast set of changes, provided a large enough timeskip. Restored Stratholme and the Eastern Plaguelands? The Arathi Highlands being a protectorate of the Three Hammers, settled by dwarves next to the few remaining Stromgarde humans? The Barrens healed? The Thousand Needles dried? Really, so many possibilities to bring in some novelty and much needed development to both the core races and the world itself.

Of course, none of this is in the end realistic, sadly. As you mentioned, it'd be impossible to justify from a resource expediture standpoint, plus Blizzard does not seem to want to head this way or write about such things (though given the late departures, we might see some change of direction). That being said, I believe Blizzard could manage it, if they wanted, especially if they were to use art assets created for the last two expansions.

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What expansion theme do you guys think would be most probable of giving us something like this? The Naga Strike Back? Revenge of the Old Gods?
Most probable? N'zoth, though the Naga could easily do so as well. But the best way to do it would be with a focus on the core races and their struggles, geopolitics and finally some regional threats, with some overreaching threats (Azshara, N'Zoth, remnants of the Legion's invasion) serving a secondary role.
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Old 09-21-2016, 06:56 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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I dunno, I feel like we're talking about two different things at this point.

A) There's the aesthetic desire to see all of Azeroth brought up to a consistent level of quality in terms of art fidelity and quest density, which includes the ability to drastically alter the geography and NPC makeup of a large area via phasing.

B) There's the functional desire to see that degree of an upgrade implemented in-game, which would naturally require an explanation of some kind in order to justify the change, much how the Shattering was offered to explain the changes wrought in Cataclysm.

I'm much MUCH more interested in A than I am in B, because B attempts to rectify these changes in an in-universe fashion, while A is effectively re-rendering the world but simply refining the stories that already existed.

Take Desolace as an example: in Classic, Desolace was effectively a giant elephant graveyard, centered around the internecine warfare of the centaur but with the naga, the Burning Blade, and Legion remnants in play around the periphery. In Cataclysm, the narrative took a big turn because the Cenarion Circle took a big interest in the new growth in the area wrought by the Cataclysm. The centaur were set dressing that ultimately took a backseat to the post-Shattering story.

In a remix of the place, there's no reason not to have all of those narratives taking place at once.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:03 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I don't know, I think my original posts were pretty clear about what I have in mind; remaking the old world and using it as a background for a new expansion, one set preferably a bit further in the future to finally give us a timeskip required to see the world evolve. I don't know why a simple graphical update would be more feasible, feels like a waste to me.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:12 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I wish there was more Shadow council stuff.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:18 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I don't know, I think my original posts were pretty clear about what I have in mind; remaking the old world and using it as a background for a new expansion, one set preferably a bit further in the future to finally give us a timeskip required to see the world evolve. I don't know why a simple graphical update would be more feasible, feels like a waste to me.
Same boat. They need Cata turned up a notch and from what they've said about creating zones, it takes far less time now than it did when they started or even when they were making Cata.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:26 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Indeed, they could use the art we've already seen in WoD and Legion to do this. We already have night elf assets, tauren, Naga, Burning Legion, orc and draenei.
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Old 09-21-2016, 03:53 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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The most that I suspect is realistic to ever see before 2.0 is a small graphic overhaul. Give the trees some tolerable models, set the mist occlusion to a level that wasn't set for vanilla or (preferably) replace it with a mist model in appropriate places, maybe (and I stress the maybe) replace buildings with more modern models if they're available.
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Old 09-21-2016, 03:57 PM
Funk, the Bard Funk, the Bard is offline

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We should brainstorm a time-skip Azeroth to play in pen-paper campaigns. Is the closer we are of playing it.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:32 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I don't know, I think my original posts were pretty clear about what I have in mind; remaking the old world and using it as a background for a new expansion, one set preferably a bit further in the future to finally give us a timeskip required to see the world evolve. I don't know why a simple graphical update would be more feasible, feels like a waste to me.
It's a choice between using all of the existing narratives in the game vs trying to come up with new narratives. I feel like the existing narratives can be expanded upon with improved quest design, and that would be augmented by the improved art design. By contrast, I don't feel like a N'zoth-oriented expansion can really drive the narratives in EVERY EK/KAL zone.

Put another way: the existing zones have had some great stories told. I don't think there's a lot of value in trying to find NEW stories to tell in 20+ zones, especially given that part of the big issue in Cataclysm was the absence of a cohesive narrative between all of the zones that were touched.

TL;DR: Cataclysm WAS the WoW 2.0, timeskip and all.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:47 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Thing is, the revamped Cata zones are nowhere near the quality of WoD/Legion zones.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:43 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
It's a choice between using all of the existing narratives in the game vs trying to come up with new narratives. I feel like the existing narratives can be expanded upon with improved quest design, and that would be augmented by the improved art design. By contrast, I don't feel like a N'zoth-oriented expansion can really drive the narratives in EVERY EK/KAL zone.

Put another way: the existing zones have had some great stories told. I don't think there's a lot of value in trying to find NEW stories to tell in 20+ zones, especially given that part of the big issue in Cataclysm was the absence of a cohesive narrative between all of the zones that were touched.

TL;DR: Cataclysm WAS the WoW 2.0, timeskip and all.
Seems we see it rather differently, so let's agree to disagree. Though I do agree that N'zoth can't really drive the narrative of every single zone, hence why I said this;

Quote:
But the best way to do it would be with a focus on the core races and their struggles, geopolitics and finally some regional threats, with some overreaching threats (Azshara, N'Zoth, remnants of the Legion's invasion) serving a secondary role.
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:31 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Seems we see it rather differently, so let's agree to disagree. Though I do agree that N'zoth can't really drive the narrative of every single zone, hence why I said this;
Which is a fair point. And yeah, I can certainly agree to disagree.

For a bit more context, I should probably say that I'm not really a big fan of a timeskip in any case, because it always feels like it's being done when the narrative in the present isn't complete yet. The only time a timeskip DOES make sense is when you're telling what are ultimately two discrete stories in the same universe, and you want to provide some connective tissue but don't want to just continue the earlier story.

Examples of narratives where a timeskip made sense are instances like the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. The former is the story of a hobbit who goes off on an adventure with a bunch of irritable dwarven businessmen and ends up restoring their homeland, the latter is a much grander story about the last-ditch effort of the free races of the world (where the central POVs come from hobbits) to destroy the ultimate weapon before the ultimate evil can obtain it. The connective tissue in this case are a) the Ring itself, which was more a prop in the Hobbit in that it wasn't a central part of the narrative, and b) Gandalf, who in both cases enabled the stories to take place. While the two stories taken together tell a fantastic generational narrative, they're still ultimately two discrete stories with their own beginnings, middles, and ends, and rely on each other in only the most academic manner.

To put this back in the context of Warcraft, I don't like timeskips because I don't feel like we've hit a point where the story in the present day can come to a rest for any period of time. This has everything to do with Blizzard's insistence that when the Horde and Alliance aren't united against a third party, the narrative inevitably spins back on the orcs vs. humans narrative which doesn't HAVE a resolution short of one faction getting utterly destroyed. Every facet of the red vs. blue narrative is ultimately contingent upon the last event, and every escalation is thus narratively important to some extent, so I feel like it would be irresponsible to say "and hey it's like twenty years later and the Horde and Alliance have basically not stopped beating the shit out of each other but let's come back and rejoin the story just when another 3rd party pops up to teach them the power of temporary alliances".
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:21 AM
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I'm torn on this subject tbh.

Because while I DO desperately want more phasing to update everything based on your characters level/quests done, after Cata changed so much it's that old line of "Be careful what you wish for." - I'd certainly be happy to see some art assets updated but entire zones getting Legion-level art revamps? 1/Never gonna happen 2/Not sure we'd actually appreciate it when it was all said and done

Only exceptions to this are the 2x Blood Elf and 2x Draenei starting zones. They're stuck in fucking TBC era story and art design, and it's disgusting. Why Blizzard didn't just included them in the Cata revamp is beyond me. And there's no way they'll go back and do them now, but for fuck sake, can we please update Silvermoon to get rid of the goddamn Kael'thas statues/Outland references? And maybe actually add some of the lovely Draenei/Naaru assets from WoD to Azuremyst? I mean for fuck sake, Blizzard moan and moan about "MANHOURS" and yet, time and time again; they waste their best art assets by using them once (if at all!) and never again.
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:14 AM
Shinjiro Aragaki Shinjiro Aragaki is offline

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Tbh if this would revamp ALL Azeroth. Then it would be better to just do WoW 2
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:07 AM
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If they do WoW 2.0, all attackpower should be derived from Strength, all spellpower derived from Intellect, Agility should be critical strike, and Spirit should be haste.

All of a sudden BC item suffixes come back cooler than ever.
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Old 10-11-2016, 01:10 AM
sokiu sokiu is offline

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why? I can't stop imagining Mulgore and Stonetalon in Highmountain quality.
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