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Old 09-21-2012, 06:58 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Map International Politics

This is a thread to discuss politics from all nations with the exception of the United States of America. (As Cantus said he would keep it clean)

I'll start a topic about the Catalan Independence.

Here are some informative links first.

"Catalan separatism" in Wikipedia
"Some 1.5 million people have been taking part in Catalonia's annual independence rally in Barcelona." by BBC news
"Crisis fuels Catalan independence push" by Irish Times
"Catalonia rallies for independence on ‘Catalan National Day" by Washington Post

What is your position/opinion on situations like this where regions want independence from their country?

I personally think that it's foolish and that these people are depowering themselves for a vague and vain sense of nationalism(regionalism???). Kosovo is a lesson is a good lesson of this with their separation from Serbia causing vast problems on international diplomacy with countries like Spain have to deny considering Kosovo a country because it would legitimize independence movements within their their own country.

But then again it's their democratic wish, can we truly deny them that just because "we know better"? This also makes me kinda of a hypocrite because i fully support the democratic wishes of the people from Falkland to remain in the British nation.

So what's your opinion?(sorry for any grammatical problems)
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:03 PM
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Who do you think is a better fuck: Rama IX or Margaret Thatcher?


I get the impression that Rama IX is a screamer.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:07 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Who do you think is a better fuck: Rama IX or Margaret Thatcher?


I get the impression that Rama IX is a screamer.
Why choose? Both is always the solution.

EDIT: On the other hand Thatcher is a chemist and could probably make some good hallucinogenics.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:17 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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But then again it's their democratic wish, can we truly deny them that just because "we know better"?
No. If people want to be independent, then they have the right to be. Let them consider the consequences and then deal with them as they arise.

If the Catalonians want independence, they should have it.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:22 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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As someone who comes from a Catalan family, let me say that it's not a good idea for those savages to rule themselves.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:23 PM
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A government's mandate to rule comes from the consent of the governed, so if people want independence from their country then they should of course be allowed to have it. The self-determination of small peoples is an important right to defend in world politics.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:31 PM
Dithon1 Dithon1 is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
A government's mandate to rule comes from the consent of the governed, so if people want independence from their country then they should of course be allowed to have it. The self-determination of small peoples is an important right to defend in world politics.
Pretty much this. Let them sink of swim on their own merit if they're so keen to give it a try. Spain's a mess as it is anyway, so they might (emphasis on "might") do well.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:34 PM
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So how do you non-Americans view the American civil war and secession of the CSA?
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:35 PM
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If the Confederates had won, the world would probably be more interesting.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:41 PM
Dithon1 Dithon1 is offline

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If the Confederates had won, the world would probably be more interesting.
If I told you I had a time machine, what would you say?
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:47 PM
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If I told you I had a time machine, what would you say?
"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:53 PM
Dithon1 Dithon1 is offline

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"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"
Because apparently Sean Connery isn't as good with a gun as the movies make him out to be.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:54 PM
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"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"
You should have seen the guy Hitler replaced.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
A government's mandate to rule comes from the consent of the governed, so if people want independence from their country then they should of course be allowed to have it. The self-determination of small peoples is an important right to defend in world politics.
Then what's your position on Quebec separation?

The majority doesn't want to separate but in this case the majority constitutes 51% of the population as of the 1995 referendum.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:00 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"
Because he was never in a room with Christopher Lee.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Then what's your position on Quebec separation?

The majority doesn't want to separate but in this case the majority constitutes 51% of the population as of the 1995 referendum.
Well in that case the debate has reached no clear consensus yet and so the conversation needs to continue until one of the positions has reached a clear majority (like 80%-ish). More people need to be convinced to one side or the other before the question can be appropriately settled. And if Quebec does reach the point where most people living there don't want to be part of Canada any longer, then the pro-Canadian minority should of course be protected by that new state.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:44 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline
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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
Well in that case the debate has reached no clear consensus yet and so the conversation needs to continue until one of the positions has reached a clear majority (like 80%-ish). More people need to be convinced to one side or the other before the question can be appropriately settled. And if Quebec does reach the point where most people living there don't want to be part of Canada any longer, then the pro-Canadian minority should of course be protected by that new state.
It's even more complex because Northern Quebec is largely populated by Aboriginal populations whose treaties are binding to the government of Canada, not the government of Quebec. If Quebec separates (which I doubt it will, 1995 was their chance and the Quebecois nationalist population has been shrinking dramatically since) then what becomes of them?
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:53 PM
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Eh, I'm of the opinion that all people are entitled to be ruled fairly and justly, I think its kind of stupid when it comes to them wanting to be their own country just for nationalistic reasons.

I mean, if you care that much about where your leader came from, instead how they're doing as a head of state, then you should probably look at yourself a little closer.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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What a lovely word to pronounce.

Quebec. Kweh-beck. Kae'baeckeh.

Try it. Taste it, and spit it back out.

Delightful.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:18 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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What a lovely word to pronounce.

Quebec. Kweh-beck. Kae'baeckeh.

Try it. Taste it, and spit it back out.

Delightful.
Tastes like leather dipped in maple syrup.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:25 PM
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This is due largely to my general ignorance of Canadia, but whenever I read/hear about Quebec, I want to slap it lightly across the face. Sounds like a land of douchebags.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:32 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
It's even more complex because Northern Quebec is largely populated by Aboriginal populations whose treaties are binding to the government of Canada, not the government of Quebec. If Quebec separates (which I doubt it will, 1995 was their chance and the Quebecois nationalist population has been shrinking dramatically since) then what becomes of them?
I'd say separation should happen by.... the Canadian equivalent of counties, I suppose. That is, if Northern Quebec wants to stay with Canada, it'll stay, but Southern Quebec gets to be its new country and all.

That said, usually successor countries all inherit whatever treaties/debts/whatever they had before (though split if appropriate, of course), and so the treaties would apply to Quebec.
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:24 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline
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I'd say separation should happen by.... the Canadian equivalent of counties, I suppose. That is, if Northern Quebec wants to stay with Canada, it'll stay, but Southern Quebec gets to be its new country and all.

That said, usually successor countries all inherit whatever treaties/debts/whatever they had before (though split if appropriate, of course), and so the treaties would apply to Quebec.
That's not really how the aboriginals view it though. Heck, their treaties are technically with the British crown and they're now with the government of Canada because the British crown is still Canada's ceremonial head of state. They have no interest at all being caught up in Quebec's nationalistic hissy-fit.

Plus, Southern Quebec has a very distinct divide as well. Rural areas you're more likely to see nationalism, but in metropolitan Montreal, they're firmly against it, and even in the provincial capital of Quebec City opinion is split. Separation would screw over far too many people in Quebec.

Heck, the reason why Toronto ended up eclipsing Montreal was because the big businesses all fled Quebec to Toronto during the sovereignty movement, causing an economic slump in Quebec that they have yet to recover from. The Bank of Montreal's operational headquarters is in Toronto. Around this time, funnily enough, is when the nationalists changed their tone from "sovereignty" to "sovereignty association" which would grant them political autonomy but they would remain part of the Canadian economy. It was a childish farce.
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  #24  
Old 09-22-2012, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
This is a thread to discuss politics from all nations with the exception of the United States of America. (As Cantus said he would keep it clean)

I'll start a topic about the Catalan Independence.

/snip

So what's your opinion?(sorry for any grammatical problems)
The sooner Madrid stops stalling and starts talking about Spanish regional autonomy the better.
With regards to the argument that the smaller states of spain would carry less weight than the current state, what sort of power do you think the Spanish goverment has now?

Spain has been poor and lacking on the international stage for the last 200 years, If the Basques and the Catalans were seeking independence from Britain France or Germany, you may have a point, but Spain is small fry.

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So how do you non-Americans view the American civil war and secession of the CSA?
With complete indifference.

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"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:27 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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So how do you non-Americans view the American civil war and secession of the CSA?
This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the preceding posts. There are more pro-Confederates in the world than I thought.

I guess it's calm enough in the United Kingdom, since Scotland thinks it already is a country.

(Half-joking.)
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