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Old 05-26-2007, 09:53 AM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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Default Warcraft 4: what would you want?

First, I think it would be about time that the Burning Legion become a playable race for WC4. World of Warcraft showed us that not all demons were invincible and that some of them could be defeated by average men. If Kael'thas Blood elves, are, indeed, aligned with the Burning Legion, they could become their peons and builders. They would be, howver, highly mutated a look more like demons than the Blood Elves from Quel'Thalas.

I would like to see it like that:

The Burning Legion faction

Main Building (can't find a name yet), they only town center that could be able to build military units, after building a barrack of course

Trains:

Blood Elves builders (build buildings, thats's about it)
Blood Elves archers, weak archer, anti-air
Blood Elve Warlock, weak spellcaster with minor magics (able to summon imps at tier 1-2, Void walkers at tier 3)

Barrack (can't think of another name for now)

Trains:

Felguards: regular foot soldiers, almost as strong as grunts
Felhounds: anti-magic hounds, use against mana wielders
Succubus: Rogue like troops that can turn invisible (like the sorceress in WC3)
Wrathguard: warrior eredars, they act as the bodyguards of the more powerful man'ari Eredars.

Magic Building (will think about a name lol, place where the magic users are trained)

Blood Mage, Blood Elven mages, able to summon Phoenix after lot of training
Shivarra, military chaplain and priestresses that can fight pretty well, able to cure and put curses on ennemies
Eredar Diabolists, powerful sorcerers with many offensive abilities

Siege Workshop

Mo'arg Tinkers: huge abominations, part machine, part mo'arg. Pretty strong shocktroops that can lay traps
Infernal Machine: the main siege weapon of the burning legion, attack from a good distance but only effective against buildings. The infernal machine can be upgraded into Fel Reavers, wich are also effective against enemy troops.


Tothrezim Laboratories (expansive building)

Infernals: The strongest unit in the game, with permanent immolation. They are, however, very expansive and take a long time to build. You can't easily make an army of these guys


Heroes: Considering there are still heroes in WC4

Pit Lord (their ultimate spell: doom now transform ennemies in Balrog Daemons, very strong demons as strong as the Daemon summoned unit in WC1, can fly and walk)
Dreadlord
Eredar Warlock
Doom Guard


So the Burning Legion would focus on brute force, a bit like the Horde. However, they won't have flying units other than summoned Phoenix and Balrog Daemon, and there can only be one of each summoned at a time. That's their main weakness. They have, however, good and cheap anti-air in the Blood Elves archers, and a lone infernal is able to crush all kind of units besides flying ones.

Like the Scourge, wich are able to summon endless troops from the death, the Burning Legion has the only units that can summon units. They are a good summoning faction

Last edited by Deathwing; 05-26-2007 at 09:27 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2007, 10:30 AM
Apophis Apophis is offline

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I don't think the burning legion would become a playable faction.

I just hope they keep the same factions as they did in wc3: Orcs, Humans, undead and the night elves.

I would prefer the undead campaign to be about the scourge instead of the forsaken tho.
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:48 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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I think WC4 best retcon WoW to hell.
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:58 AM
DeathsAdvocate DeathsAdvocate is offline

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What would be the point of adding them? I mean each race has a certain advantage and disadvantage in WC3 Orc's were the powerhouse so to speak, strong but slow and expensive. Undead were basicly zerg, quick and cheap but weak. Night elves were the all around good units (no real strong or weak point) and Humans were micro management material. What would the Legion be?
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:04 AM
Nephalim Nephalim is offline

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I'd suggest a Silithid side, but it would probably be way too zerg.

Also I'm against a Burning Legion side, I think the decision to leave them out of Warcraft III was a good one. An Illidari side, however, would be interesting.
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Old 05-26-2007, 02:49 PM
Wulfang Wulfang is offline

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My vision of the Warcraft IV races would be like this:

Alliance:
-Humans
-Dwarves (both Ironforge and Wildhammer)
-Gnomes
-High and night elves
-Draenei
-Furbolgs (possibly allied with the night elves)

Horde:
-Orcs
-Trolls (Darkspear and Revantusk)
-Tauren
-Forsaken
-Azerothien blood elves
-Ogres

Scourge (not going to mention races, as we all know they are just a bunch of walking corpses, weird constructs of both stone and flesh and death worshipers)

Illidari:
-Coilfang Naga
-Sunfury blood elves (like Illidan's demon hunter legions and the Crimson Sigil)
-Broken (Ashtongue, Murkblood and the like)
-Fel orcs
-Assorted demons (terrorguards, felguards, felhounds, etc.)

They could possibly allow each factions to have different buildings and tech trees depending on the race you played as, seeing as within each faction there are many different armies with very different tactics and military structures.

Done like this, the game would kick ass
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:54 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Personally, I don't want the Lich King's story to be resolved by him just being defeated in WoW. Why? Because that isn't epic enough to end that chapter of the series. Sure we could kill him in WoW, with the aid of heroes, and end it all and get phat lewt. But to me, like Illidan's fate, it would be a let down. It would also remove a great threat from Azeroth.
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Old 05-26-2007, 09:32 PM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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Quote:
What would be the point of adding them? I mean each race has a certain advantage and disadvantage in WC3 Orc's were the powerhouse so to speak, strong but slow and expensive. Undead were basicly zerg, quick and cheap but weak. Night elves were the all around good units (no real strong or weak point) and Humans were micro management material. What would the Legion be?
The Burning Legion have some great weaknesses as they can't build air units.
They are, however, a perfect mix of Brute Force and strong spellcasters, that are able to summon less demons. They would also have the strongest towers of the game (remember Black Citadel defenses in TFT?)
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:11 PM
emperium emperium is offline

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I personally dont care what they add just as long as I get to pound Arthas into dust!!! And tear Silvanas limb from limb! Also It would be nice if the Alliance get to reclaim Lordearon and Quel'thalas.
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:24 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The Legion would also be a bit lacking in the stroy department, which would be necessary to justify an entire playable race in WC4. The whole lot of their rank-and-file consist of fanatics and demonic beasts who just do as they're told (with the exception of a few specific officers who chose self-preservation when all else was lost). Plus, by the time they get involved, it's all about kill kill kill. The subtlety of their plans involved the orcs, then the Scourge, but once full ranks of felguard are sweeping across the field, the time for subtelty and complex story-driven actions has passed.

The Silithid are much the same in many ways. Ultimately we'd actually be interacting with the Qiraji, since for all their sinister activities, the Silithid themselves are really just clever beasts "engineered" to carry out their purpose with unnaturally increased efficiency. Any storyline would have to follow their masters, who pretty much had the same plan as the Legion: amass their strength over several millennia, then strike out to overwhelm Azeroth through sheer numbers and might when nobody was expecting it. It's all very impersonal from their point of view, however personal it might seem from the standpoint of their enemies. They're an engine of destruction and conquest without any relatable motivations beyond their desire to conquer Azeroth.

The Scourge could be expanded further upon simply because we've been kept largely ignorant of what's been going on in Northrend since TFT. On the one hand the Lich King could just be resting on his laurels waiting for an expansion to bring players to Icecrown. On the other hand, it could be that all is not well in "Scourge Country". Perhaps things have gone awry in the Lich King's own backyard, preventing him from more actively invading the rest of Azeroth. There's always the possibility that the Faceless One presence under Azjol Nerub could have boiled over to the surface by now, and the Scourge might be too preoccupied with a war in their own territory to throw their full might at the Alliance and Horde.

Unfortunately, it'll be trickier using the Scourge a second time around in RTS form, though far from impossible. An important part of WC3's portrayal was the establishment of Arthas as the rising champion of the Scourge. These days, the members of the Scourge are well placed and firmly established, creating less sense of the player growing along with the characters. It would seem weak by comparison to throw in some nobody character we've never met before as a new Scourge hero to replace Arthas. With his ascension to becoming the Lich King, the Scourge has become more monolithic and impersonal than ever. It'd be especially lame for players to know that they're controlling the Scourge at the height of its power, only to start every mission with a handful of weakling units needing to build a base from scratch. In the event of a real war, the present Scourge would realistically start out with a massive number of troops readily available, moreso than any of the other races or factions; not three ghouls, one hero and a pair of acolytes with minimal starting resources. An important aspect of RTS story is some overall sense of an uphill struggle on the part of the player, yet if anything the Scourge should be at the top of its game right now.
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:59 AM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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Yeah but the Alliance at the beggining of WC3 was almost at their best, even with the loss of Gilneas.

But a Burning Legion campaign goal could be to try to revive Sargeras, gain evenge against the Scourge.... that would be incredible


Just 2 things i don't want in the expansion

Forsaken and Blood Elves with the Horde, i want these 2 races to become creeps or Neutral units for hire. Or part of the campaign...

I want the horde to be beasts like in the old WC2 days: Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, Taurens and maybe Ogres.

Alliance: Humans, Dwarves, small numbers of high Elves and Gnomes hiding in their workshops

Night Elves: Not part of the Alliance but allies

Scourge: The basic Scourge, maybe a campaign goal would be to try to convert back the Forsaken into Scourge ranks

Illidari: They might just all die in WoW so we won't heard about them

Draeneis: They will probably conquer Outland back, thank the Alliance and the Night Elves and live peacefully on Outland with the Naarus. They will leave Azeroth forever

Nazjatar Nagas: Maybe a playable faction but we are not sure of Azsharas goal right now. I don't think Nagas will finally be a playable race.

Last edited by Deathwing; 05-27-2007 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:49 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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You guys realize that with the popularity of WoW, they are most likely going to mix the races up to match the factions in WoW if they ever made a WarCraft 4. The factions I see happening are...

Alliance (Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves, Draenei)
Horde (Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Forsaken, Blood Elves)
Scourge (Same as before, but with a lot of new undead creatures)

The last race I really don't know what would happen.
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:24 PM
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I'm happy as long as the plot is good.

Which is why I'd likely be unhappy.
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:40 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
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I'm happy as long as the plot is good.

Which is why I'd likely be unhappy.
I'de like to think that with a RTS that focuses on the story, they won't be so willingly to bend the lore over for powergamers. I just want them to CONTINUE Arthas' story, whether he dies or not in the story I don't care either way, I just want it to be cool and meaningful. They followed his whole ife from a shining becon of the Light and humanity, into the Immortal Lich King. There needs to be some closure, he needs to confront Jaina!
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Old 05-27-2007, 03:52 PM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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He will most likely meet her again or even fight her at some point. Let's just hope that the encounter won't have cheesy dialogues and more like cool lines like when Luke speak to Vador in ROTJ.
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Old 05-27-2007, 03:58 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
He will most likely meet her again or even fight her at some point. Let's just hope that the encounter won't have cheesy dialogues and more like cool lines like when Luke speak to Vador in ROTJ.
I kinda think Jaina fighting the Lich King is akin to a peasent fighting an abomination.....

I mean, the Lich King is for all intents and purposes now an Eternal, which is the Warcraftian Version of a God. Now that is not to say that she couldn't defeat him like Malfurion did Archimonde.
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:00 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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And besides, tLK is not going to even feel bad for killing her and turning her into another chip in the pile that is scourge.
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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And besides, tLK is not going to even feel bad for killing her and turning her into another chip in the pile that is scourge.
How do you know? When you played Arthas during the Campaigns you played a being who had no soul, no emotions. Now that he actually HAS a soul, I can't help but wonder if he would feel something, anything for his former lover. It would be interesting.
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:21 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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How do you know? When you played Arthas during the Campaigns you played a being who had no soul, no emotions. Now that he actually HAS a soul, I can't help but wonder if he would feel something, anything for his former lover. It would be interesting.
But his soul is a combination of Ner'Zhul and Arthas. From the way I see it, he doesn't really have any human emotions any more (like a lich in DnD or something to that effect).
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:32 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is online now

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Unlike Kerrigan and Raynor, I think the end to Jaina and Arthas' relationship was "I'm sorry, Arthas I can't watch you do this". And their time together is more important to them as individuals than them as a couple.

Arthas' abandoned her for power, she obviously doesn't care about him anymore (she hasn't mentioned him since RoC)... That's just my opinion, though.
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:46 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Unlike Kerrigan and Raynor, I think the end to Jaina and Arthas' relationship was "I'm sorry, Arthas I can't watch you do this". And their time together is more important to them as individuals than them as a couple.

Arthas' abandoned her for power, she obviously doesn't care about him anymore (she hasn't mentioned him since RoC)... That's just my opinion, though.
He didn't abandon her for power....Arthas never wanted power for it's own sake. His driving force was retribution for what Mal'Ganis did to his people and he wanted to protect his people. The bad thing is he let his sense of vengeance get in the way of reason. Also don't you notice how hurt he sounds when she leaves? He obviously still cared for the girl.

Also remember this, the new Lich King has Arthas' personality. Which makes me inclinded to believe (me now, only my opinion) that he's more inclinded to act like Arthas than Ner'zhul. I'm not saying he's going to be all mushy with her or nothing, far from it. I'de just like to see what WOULD happen if the two were to meet again.
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:54 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is online now

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Arthas wanted to kill Mal'ganis because he wanted the people of Lordaeron to hoist him up their shoulders and praise him for being a great hero. The more people stood in his way of being a hero, the angrier he got.

As for Jaina, actions speak louder than words. If he really still cared for her, he might have listened to her when she pretty much told him she was NOT okay with what he was about to do. But his drive to be the big hero, to live up to Uther, Muradin and his father was more important to him than she was.
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:45 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Arthas wanted to kill Mal'ganis because he wanted the people of Lordaeron to hoist him up their shoulders and praise him for being a great hero. The more people stood in his way of being a hero, the angrier he got.

As for Jaina, actions speak louder than words. If he really still cared for her, he might have listened to her when she pretty much told him she was NOT okay with what he was about to do. But his drive to be the big hero, to live up to Uther, Muradin and his father was more important to him than she was.
Really? Because all of his backstory says that he cared deeply for his people and was a devout follower of the Light. I think Arthas really did have good intentions, it's just that the road to hell is paved with those.
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:50 PM
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Sure he did... no one's questioning he wanted to save his people or that he followed the light.

The issue is WHY he followed the light and wanted to save his people.
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:51 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Sure he did... no one's questioning he wanted to save his people or that he followed the light.

The issue is WHY he followed the light and wanted to save his people.
I don't believe it was for a selfish reason like you do. Both Uther DND Tirion thought HIGHLY of Arthas as a paladin. Tirion even hoped his son would one day be like him.
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