Are we taking insane, not entirely thought out ideas? Because I have the bare bones of one; have Danath and Galen work together to secure and rebuild Stromgarde; Galen could easily explain that he still holds love for his homeland, and he doesn't want to see the last remnants of their glorious capital inhabited by murderers and ogres, and he definitely doesn't want to see it destroyed if the Horde and Alliance decided to fight for control of the city. Which would be true, but for more reasons than just loyalty to his homeland; Sylvie, bless her twisted little heart, would want Stromgarde to become a second Undercity (of sorts), where the Forsaken (and the Horde, naturally) could station soldiers that would otherwise be guarding the Thandol Span. They do end up working together (VERY reluctantly, and Danath basically tells Galen that if he even thinks Galen is doing something underhanded, he'll kill the risen prince) and reclaim the city, and begin rebuilding it.

Then after some questing elsewhere in the zone (probably involving the reinforcement of Hammerfall/cleaning up the remaining ogres and Syndicate members to begin moving NPCs out of Refuge Point), you come back to either kill an aide of Danath's who has been seen snooping around inside their section of the city, or go looking for the aide for Danath. Either way, both sides start fighting each other and the Forsaken get pushed out to Galen's Fall... and then back beyond the wall. Galen and Danath both survive, with Galen having the unenviable task of having to tell Sylvanas that the Alliance control Stromgarde, and Danath has his forces begin the renovations on the formerly Forsaken side of Stromgarde.

...oh, and then both sides get a new pony. Just because.

So yeah, not a terrific plan, but it doesn't suck, right? o_o; (I am aware it probably does.)

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Hm.

Horde Gains:

Quel'thalas redesigned and brought up to date to the MoP timeline. Blood Elves insisting to remain in control of the Thalassian borders - and their sentiment is backed up by the Forsaken, leading to tension - but not violence - with the Argent Crusade.

Blood Elves fortifying the entrance to Quel'thalas by building a minor base there.

The Forsaken fortify the Thoradin Wall and rebuilt it in Sylvanas image, desecrating it with plague-magic and dubbing it "The Shield of Sylvanas".

The Orcs decide to reconstruct Durnholde Keep, and it's an uneasy coalition of Orcs and Forsaken.

The Darkspear Trolls build a port-city amongst the ruins of Theramore, and the Goblins are intergrated here to support the Horde navy.


Alliance gains:

Danath Trollbane returns from Outland and the Alliance set Hammerfall to the flame. As the Forsaken decide to plaguebomb the Refuge Point, the Alliance banish the Syndicate from Stromgarde and rebuild it as a bastion of alliance power against the Forsaken.

Arathi Basin receives graphical updates to reflect that its now a battle between the League of Arathor 2.0 and the Defilers.

Dark Iron dwarves decide to fortify the Thandol Span against relentless forest troll attacks. Thandol Span becomes the first "pure" Alliance Dark Iron base, built with the same style as Shadowforge City, albeit smaller.

Azuremyst updated to be brought into the modern timeline. The Draenei wish to become more involved with alliance politics, which causes mixed reactions from the Night Elves, who feel slightly threathened.

The Syndicate, being forced out of Arathi by the Forsaken and being under constant harassment from Ravenholdt, start to re-consider their position. A few nobles express a desire to rejoin the Alliance and restore the kingdom of Alterac. They find support in the Gilneas brigade, but find heavy resistance from Ironforge and Stormwind, and will have to redeem themselves from the ruins of their capitol city - now an alliance base in the midst of Forsaken territory.

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So what, Galen is a secret agent?

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...you did read the first sentence, right? I never said I fully thought this through, just that I had a the-far-side-of-stupid idea. =P

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No. God no.

The Humans and Undead worked together once before - see how that got them.

Enough of the "spirit of co-operation"; Danath should come back and destroy the Horde forces in Arathi. Outright.

Either way, your idea isn't bad, but Galen already said he doesn't care about his homeland and only lives to serve Sylvanas now.

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The only way I could possibly see it working would be if Danath wanted to give Galen a chance; in the end, they're still family, even if the connection is particularly distant. And besides, we would know that Galen is full of slightly more crap than this Twenty Pound Sack Of Shit, but he could always lie. The Forsaken seem pretty damn good at the "lying through their mouth holes" thing, after all.

But yeah, it's a doomed idea from the start either way, I fully admit that. I mean, there's still the nagging question (no matter what happens, really) of "why don't the Forsaken just bust out the happy gas?", after all.

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Despite my love for the Horde I want the Alliance to reclaim Stromgarde and Arathi Highlands. At least it'll lessen the moaning about the Alliance always losing. This could be coupled with the Alliance attacking Stonard and any other minor Horde town near Alliance territory.

With the lose of Theramore though the Alliance has completely lost all hold they had on Southern Kalimdor. If the Night Elves start to pick up on the slack I can see them claiming Winterspring, Felwood and Most of Ashenvale back for the Alliance with the aid of the Draenei.

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• Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

• Anyone who uses the phrase "Easy as taking candy from a baby." has never tried taking candy from a baby.

The way Galen seems to... hesitate, when he talks, leads some people to believe that he's being mind controlled (or, not really loyal to Sylvanas). It'd be pretty epic if he was, and managed to throw it off mid conflict. Or something.

I mean, either way, I don't really mind how it plays out, as long as the Alliance owns the city. Could rebuild Alterac in the Forsaken's image, and have more quests dealing with the old nobles there and their private armies.


The Alliance, through questing, already takes Felwood. Winterspring is Neutral, and we take most of Ashenvale back, too.

>.> They can give us what we already have!

You know what? I really actually LIKE the idea of the Darkspear building a large port, hopefully with some temples instead of just huts and more huts, on the site of Theramore's ruins.

Instead of just another orc base. I support that.

@Magistrix Verdande: You know what, I fully support each and every one of your ideas. I love them. Good job.

I could see maybe Galen briefly breaking Sylvanas's hold over him long enough to sell out his Forsaken forces to Danath's army.

This could culminate in Galen handing Trol'kalar over to Danath and asking Danath to give him his final death.......

Many Horde players would cry oceans full of tears if it came out that Sylavanas had to use mind control to keep her Forsaken in line. I support your idea, though.

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Regardless of what happens, I think they need to use a lot of phasing again, more than before.

Can never have enough phasing.

New Forsaken WERE mindcontrolled when I played the beta. This was later removed due to fan-outrage, but its certain that Blizz at least intended for there to be a mind controlling element to the whole forsaken leveling experience, with the player not being an exception.

Whether or not it's still there is subject to debate, however.

I personally wouldn't have any problems with it.

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I was in the Cataclysm beta, too.

I was so angry when they removed that - whole "charm/mind control the alliance dead to our side".

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I find it strange that they removed the mind-control. Have players be awakened Lordaeron citizens who died to the plague while the Alliance Forces who have been killed are Mind-controlled into servitude.

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• Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

• Anyone who uses the phrase "Easy as taking candy from a baby." has never tried taking candy from a baby.

One really shouldn't be truely angry about anything regarding Wow. We're the elitists of the elite when it comes to lore but its still a game and lines should be drawn.

Moving on from my lecture though; removing that confirmation has lead to an awfully large amount of lore shit-storms. I don't care whether they're mind controlled or not but at the very least give us a damn reason why raised soldiers are ever so willing to slaughter family and friends alongside their murderers.

EDIT: I do however laugh at the notion that player QQ caused them to change it. Blizzards been pretty uncompromising regarding their war story so far and I can't see something that major being a minute detail in the grand scheme of upper East Kingdoms.

The same problem remains though. What motivation do plague-victims have to wage war on the Alliance other than "Pretty undead elf told me to?"

I'm okay with most of the things in your post, but "Shield of Sylvanas" sounds too defensive. The Forsaken's policy is "defense via superior offense" and a "shield" doesn't describe them very well.

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"Noble countrymen, evil is upon us. Darkness has befallen our shores. Rise and slay thy enemies… strike, strike so others shall live. The meek shall not fade into the night… live my brethren, live." - King Terenas Menethil II

I like that idea and thought about mostly the same changes: plaguebombing the Refugee point in particular. I'd rather leave Hammerfall for the Horde, however, to rebuild it in Garrosh-style Orcish architecture and basically divide the Arathi into Northern, controlled by the Horde with some Humans (farmers and Syndicate) trying to hold their lands, and Southern Arathi, controlled by the Alliance, with some Forest Trolls getting supported by the Horde to establish a guirellia at the Arathorian-Dwaven trade route. Forsaken remake the Thoradin's Wall, but that's it - they are pressed by Arathorian siege machines, which makes the communication with Hammerfall harder. The tunnel between Arathi and Hinterlands would be a point of interest for the factions too, with the possibility of Trolls and Forsaken supplying Hammerfall from the North.

As for the Elves... Well, I realise that Argent Dawn is going to be in UnPlaguelands for a long time, but in some future I'd like to see the devs "remember" about Elven runestones on Caer Darrow and, generally, borders of "Quel'Thalas" in WC2. Perhaps a stronger Elven protectorate could start boundary demarcation (and the known problems that come with that) with Argent Lordaeron, whose internationality may become a weak point when it is surrounded by Horde states. Quel'Thalas needs SOME expansion. Get the Ranger Longes at least.

As for Lordaeron, I honestly see no possibility of the Alliance invasion force going there without reclaiming Gilneas or Stromgarde first. And if the both bases are at the hands of the Alliance, the latter can pretty much reconquer Southern Lordaeron. Well, strategically-wise. But really it will happen only if it suits the plot.

Actually, it may become a smart reference to the prominent idea in Sylvanas's story about the Forsaken being "her shield".

I don't really know if it's feasible to have Gilneas back for Alliance. I made a thread about it once and there were way too many points disfavoring it so I'm really not sure if it can come back unless Hillsbrad ever became contested territory again.

With that in mind I think Stromgarde would make a great comeback, so long as it has its own unique architecture and flavor to it. Don't really want to recapture it and have it looking exactly like it did when it was in ruins. If it gives a nice shoutout to that feeling that WC2 gave for Alliance lovers then I think that's also a good thing. That one idea of having the Syndicate rejoin the Alliance and being spearheaded with the Gilneas Brigade also sounds pretty neat, though I think we've already got a nice collection of factions that are on the moral ambiguity spectrum. (Gilneas, Dark Irons)

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"A few nights back some guy threw a ball and told me to fetch. In response, I did the same, but with his head. Needless to say, he didn't have a witty comeback." - Sniffy Pete

By and large, however, the Syndicate's crimes post WC2 have been towards the Horde. Remember that the House of Prestor more or less led the House of Nobles in Stormwind, so even though Alterac was razed for being a traitor-kingdom, it seems not all their noble families were disgraced for the kings actions.

Genn Greymane was a big supporter of Daval Prestor as well - a side of Deathwing that's been neglected through all of Cataclysm, sadly. Who knows? There might be more Alterac nobles out there who wish to redeem themselves in the eyes of a new alliance, which may or may not be more forgiving if Alterac can prove its worth as an ally.

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I prefer the term "charm" to "mind control" In WoW "mind control" usually means said person can't even control their own basic motor functions much less their thought process.

Either way, the QQ would be endless.

Anyway, on the topic of Alliance advancement; since Theramore is falling(which is a slap in the face to me at least, but that's a different story), here's an idea or three:



Here's a few ideas were I a CDev member with any kind of power:

1. Militarize the Alliance. Show more displays of Alliance power; tanks being sent off to battlefields, troops doing drills in the streets. Citizens lining up in droves to fight the Horde. Recruitment posters, even!

"Grab your sword and fight the Horde...Uncle Lothar wants you!"

Make the Alliance navy actually a navy. Have them patrol Stormwind harbor and be building more and more ships. Show the Alliance militarized and ready to battle.

2. Integration of Alliance forces. No, this doesn't mean "make Varian Warchief". This means simply this; I've always been annoyed by the Alliance forces fighting in ram-shackle clothes. I mean, it's hilarious watching Kal'dorei sentinels in their purple armor fighting alongside Stormwind soldiers in the Eastern Kingdoms.

I'd have a multi-racial Alliance, all rocking the lion tabard of the Alliance(NOT Stormwind, but the Alliance) to show that they are united against the Horde's onslaught.

3. In response to the destruction of Theramore, the Skybreaker, the Llane's Oath(reclaimed and repaired) and the Lothar's Call(some name I made up) are sent across the sea to attempt to drop the Skybreaker's large bomb on Orgrimmar in retaliation. However, the Skybreaker is shot down just off the coast of Azshara with the big Goblin gun of doom; however, the Llane's Oath and Lothar's Call manage to destroy the gun with sustained attack, but have to retreat to Northwatch Hold.

Both Alliance and Horde players would quest to attempt to recover things from the downed Skybreaker.

The Horde player would be trying to gather up intelligence reports from the Skybreaker, the various gold stores the ship was carrying, trying to salvage parts to repair the Bilgewater Gun, and most importantly, disarming the still-active bomb.

The Alliance player would be trying to save survivors(the Lothar's Call would return and sweep over the sea dodging Horde attackers trying to rescue downed crewemen) and gather up provisions from the shoreline, while attempting to keep the Horde from disarming the bomb.

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If by unique architecture you mean "Has red roofs instead of blue" I can totally see that.

Warcraft 2 architecture for the Alliance is pretty similar to Warcraft 3, just with lower graphics

So if my undead was made pre-Cata does that mean that have some special rights over the MC'd newbies?

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