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Old 04-17-2014, 04:42 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Default Blizzard and the 'one face' issue with WoD

I think most have seen it said across other forums, but I feel its something that needs to be talked all the more. I'm a strong believer in pushing for a change instead of sitting back and believing change will come, as many on this subject keep saying 'its alpha, its not live yet, give them time'.

We gave them time in mists alpha, to give pandaren unique faces. And what did we get when it all went live?



Thats right, we got an army of pandaren clones, with the only things distinguishing them differently being face markings, all painted over the same identical faces.

Now, the excuse made for the old models was how all faces on old models all had the same face structure, and had faces painted on them.



However, because of the low polygons of the old models, it all blended in together, and the old painted faces allowed the illusion of variety to our characters. We we rolled a character, we could decide on what type of person they were, you could be an angry looking orc, or a wise looking one. you could be a calm looking dwarf, or an old grizzled warrior type, you could be a sweet faced gnome, or a determined faced one, and so on.

Even if the old effects are dated, the illusion it gave us all let us choose personality for our characters that we could play to, more that could be more like ourselves reflected in our character, or if your a roleplayer, a face that let us see that characters personality. I've got several orc characters, one is young looking, another old and weathered, and i loved being about to choose a face to go with that character.

But now.. many people are seeing this issue.



There is no variety in the new faces. Some are trying to argue against what players are seeing, trying to convince themselves that the tiny wrinkles and lines amount to having unique face options. But they are kidding themselves.


The real issue itself comes from what blizzard has done in terms of there new system of facial meshes. As said, the old models had a pain, expressionless face that allowed artists to paint on faces to create the illusion of uniqueness, while the new models are highly detailed in there facial expressions and emotes. The problem, is that blizzard have sacrificed choice for quality. Better looking face, but no choice in characterization.

And it comes from the technology itself. Unless blizzard were to decide to go by each race, and alter the face like 9-10 times to have different idol animations, and using the texture effect with that, then no matter how many lines or wrinkles they use, its all going to be just like the pandaren, an army of clones.

And for those making the excuse 'well you don't see your characters face 90% of the time anyway', this extends to all npcs too, so all npcs will look identical.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:54 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Imo. you should tweet Robinson, when he will make the Artcraft adressing the same face issue. (Which he said he make back in March.)
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:07 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
Imo. you should tweet Robinson, when he will make the Artcraft adressing the same face issue. (Which he said he make back in March.)
if his issue of resolving the same face issue is what we've seen with that current updated orc face, then its a pretty poor attempt at fixing it.

Nah, best thing do to is, like you say, have many people tweet and message robinson, metzen and kosak over this. Though i'm quite convinced now metzen has less to do with the project and more focused on that retarded bike program and being part of the movie licence.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:31 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Forget Metzen and Kossak on this and concentrate on Robinson. Their Artcraft blogs were really informative, so I actually believe him that they are working on a solution.

Personally, I wondered why the eyes stayed the same, since they are the part of the face that really makes a difference.

Also...

...this video made me wonder if they might update the character creation screen with some kind of face detail toggle aka GW2.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:49 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Yeah. I've seen an idea floating around that if robinson were to use the facial mesh for the updated model, alter idol appearances to do with the wrinkles and shadows they've just applied, it could do just what its hoped, faces that look different when idol.

Like like the orc face and raise the brow a bit, add some wrinkles under the eyes, and you have one unique face. Take another where the lower lip is brought down revealing teeth, wrinkles under the eyes and more of a frown, and you create another face.

Surely this is what they are planning? If the tech is there as the tauren face mesh showed, that would be the solution.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:51 AM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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Got me worrying about the elf ones now...

Nelf, Belf and troll are the ones I am looking for.

Elves are easy to look samy.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:55 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by belorealah View Post
Got me worrying about the elf ones now...

Nelf, Belf and troll are the ones I am looking for.

Elves are easy to look samy.
we're all worried about this, about them doing what they did to the pandaren.

The latest one with the gnomes has people spotting the fact all gnome faces look the same, save one who has slightly different eyebrows.


All the rest look like they have a look of 'eeehehehe, i'm gonna come bite you in your sleep', with only different wrinkles.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:28 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Surprisingly, I agree with the crazy Tauren.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:34 AM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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See, Blizzard said they wouldn't cut corners with it, that they want the models to look great, but if all the faces look the same, then I guess they have.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:44 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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The problem now is I don't see what Blizzard can do. Either they drastically reduce the face graphics so the old texture face style can work, which would probably make people even angrier for getting worse looking models than previewed, or make completely new animation rigs for each face option. Seeing as Afrasiabi already says he doubts all the races will be ready for launch, this would delay all of them until who knows when in the patch cycle.

Perhaps there's another solution I'm not seeing, but right now it looks like Blizzard's dug themselves a hole and can't win.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:49 AM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The problem now is I don't see what Blizzard can do. Either they drastically reduce the face graphics so the old texture face style can work, which would probably make people even angrier for getting worse looking models than previewed, or make completely new animation rigs for each face option. Seeing as Afrasiabi already says he doubts all the races will be ready for launch, this would delay all of them until who knows when in the patch cycle.

Perhaps there's another solution I'm not seeing, but right now it looks like Blizzard's dug themselves a hole and can't win.
Think you're right...
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:50 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The problem now is I don't see what Blizzard can do. Either they drastically reduce the face graphics so the old texture face style can work, which would probably make people even angrier for getting worse looking models than previewed, or make completely new animation rigs for each face option. Seeing as Afrasiabi already says he doubts all the races will be ready for launch, this would delay all of them until who knows when in the patch cycle.

Perhaps there's another solution I'm not seeing, but right now it looks like Blizzard's dug themselves a hole and can't win.
then its good that people are finally standing up and saying this. Even danger dolan made a video saying its a major issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly8y...OwYDrVcyQ3Smvg
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:47 AM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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They shouldn't have said that with the new character models our old characters will look the same way.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:36 AM
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You guys sure it just isn't done yet? I know frequently the alpha builds are just basically the Blizzcon build + a couple more things, since everything else is too "in progress" to include.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:45 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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You guys sure it just isn't done yet? I know frequently the alpha builds are just basically the Blizzcon build + a couple more things, since everything else is too "in progress" to include.
Pandaren.

Thats what you need to remember from this. The pandaren in alpha did not go any further then the one face, with different markings and fur color.

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Old 04-17-2014, 10:13 AM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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I think the faces are varied in structure just enough for me not to be overly miffed. Distinct eyes, wrinkles and brow ridges make the orc faces pretty distinct. My only issue is the peon face isn't peon enough!

Though it could just be I'm willing to accept these quality faces knowing that they're all linked by animations. If they were to do as you suggested and try adding individual facial emotes to them I would be pleasantly surprised, but as it is... I'm okay with how they have turned out.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:09 PM
Frosthawk Frosthawk is offline

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Pandaren females stick out as the only race where the idea of "sameface" really applies.

What they did was literally take the same face skin, and photoshopped the fur into different color patterns, added some dots in different places on the snout, and inserted a little tuft of messier fur on the cheeks.
Not even the oft-touted female worgen has it that bad--the problem with female worgen is really mostly in the eyes. They even have customization that males don't: the size and shape of their nose.


Male orc faces, by comparison, seem to have been drawn and designed separately but with a more rigid adherence to the geometry than was typical of the old version.


Also fun fact: half of current male orc faces are literally the same face with added wrinkles and different scowls.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:14 PM
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One really good face or lots of ugly ones?
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:15 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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The only orc face to look different are the two with the brow lobes. All the others are pretty much Garrosh's face like you said earlier.

Its even worse for female orcs right now because they don't even get eye colors. All have brown eyes right now.

And if Orc faces are changing so much, I don't understand why they didn't change the posture, and improve the animations.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:16 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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The orc faces look different enough to me. And like IGoD said, there really isn't anything that Blizzard can do.

Also, tweeting Metzen and Kosak about this isn't going to do shit. They're not on the art ream.
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You know, when I put the "i hate all of you" tag in threads, I'm not trying to be funny or cute. With a handful of exceptions, I really do hate almost everybody here.

It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:21 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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From the distance the new orc faces look the same. They just have different wrinkles.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:39 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Personally I think if they are doing the slight differences skins they should be exaggerating them. Bigger winkles, more sunken eyes, cracked lips and scars. The have pulled back many of the original traits as it is. The other issue I see with this is how bland the less pronounced races are going to look.

The eye colour fuck ups REALLY pisses me off. I picked red eyes for a reason, don't make them yellow or blue...
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:54 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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I hope all female trolls don't look high priestess Mar'li.

Noses should be a customizable trait for female trolls.

Male Trolls should get the option for beards.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:55 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Quote:
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From the distance the new orc faces look the same. They just have different wrinkles.
yeah, thats all I'm seeing too. Its the same character just seeing him at different stages of life.
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:11 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Originally Posted by Tauren Paly View Post
yeah, thats all I'm seeing too. Its the same character just seeing him at different stages of life.
A noses and ears option would be a wonder for all races.
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