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View Poll Results: What race is in the best shape all things considered?
Human 4 9.76%
Orc 1 2.44%
Night Elf 0 0%
Forsaken 2 4.88%
Dwarf 7 17.07%
Tauren 0 0%
Gnome 0 0%
Troll 0 0%
Draenei 0 0%
Blood Elf 26 63.41%
Worgen 0 0%
Goblin 0 0%
Pandaren 1 2.44%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-17-2014, 01:47 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Tome of Experience What playable race is in the best shape story-wise.

What race do you guys think is in the best shape lore-wise? Consider everything, not just the amount of screen time they get because a lot of that can be empty.
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2014, 01:53 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Definitely blood elves. They're not tied down by problems at home, got a lot of screen time, and they'll get more in WoD.
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:53 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
What race do you guys think is in the best shape lore-wise? Consider everything, not just the amount of screen time they get because a lot of that can be empty.
I would say Goblins, Humans and Blood Elves.

I just cannot wait till we finally get to see Gallywix in game in a big way because you know that will make for some good times backstabbing some folk .
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2014, 01:57 PM
Dawnfeld Dawnfeld is offline

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Either blood elves or goblins. But goblins are tied down by Gallywix, so I voted blood elves.
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  #5  
Old 04-17-2014, 01:58 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Blood Elves and the Forsaken
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  #6  
Old 04-17-2014, 01:59 PM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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  #7  
Old 04-17-2014, 02:15 PM
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Probably blood elves and dwarves. I'll vote dwarves as a counterbalance to what I predict will likely be a lot of blood elf votes.

Goblins have a lot of presence, but not a lot of actual lore or direction.

Humans have a lot of everything, but it's being dominated by the cults of personality around Varian and Anduin Wrynn as well as Stormwind.

Orcs have a lot of lore and presence, but both of which have taken a negative hit as a result of Cata and MoP.

Trolls only have a few characters worth naming and playable trolls are just Diet Trolls who do not have the same level of cultural richness or lore as the Loot of the Week variety.

Tauren basically exist as three characters with the same dull personality: Baine, Dezco, and Hamuul.

Forsaken have a lot of lore and are overall in a good place, but their story is centered around and too dependent on Sylvanas.

Draenei and worgen are in a similar boat of lacking in lore and presence.

Gnomes are similar to goblins in that they have presence and a well-defined niche, but not much actual lore or significant characters.

Night elves are... well I'll just wait for Ferlion to provide his usual schtick on that situation.
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:28 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Damn, I expected BE supremacy (as in all things) when I voted, but I was quite surprised when I saw just how much.
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2014, 02:29 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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I firmly believe that it is the Blood Elves with no one really close at all.

The Blood Elves had BC which focused a lot on them and put them at center stage in an expansion. I think a lot of the complaints that the Blood Elves haven't had any story since BC are from the fact that the Blood Elves had their exposure scaled back from being the #1 in development, to a healthy reasonable amount. BC gave the Blood Elves the amount of story exposure that Orcs had in Cata and Humans had in Wrath. BC wrapped up the Blood Elves story at the time, and I think it stayed true to their themes.

After BC the Blood Elves continued to get story, just not on the same level that BC had and rightfully so. Wrath gave them the Sunreavers, revisited the Sunwell, and gave them an Alliance foil which sadly wasn't a playable Alliance race.

Cataclysm introduced the Reliquary, revisited the Amani threat, and continued the Blood Elf/High Elf story. Blood Elf characters got some nice characterization. The only negative is that the Blood Elf 1-20 zones were not updated, although, considering the quality of many other updates this might have saved them from bad development and feeling like the work your character did back in BC was futile.

MoP utalised the Blood Elves a lot. They were involved with the Theramore and Dalaran fiascoes, had character development, got to revisit the Sunreavers, they got an interesting racial story, and they reaffirmed their position within the Horde.

I think the Blood Elves are in the best shape for 2 reasons.

First, they have had consistent development in every expansion in both the base game and in the patches. Some other races have gotten this too like Humans, Orcs, Night Elves. There is something that separates the Blood Elves from these races and a couple of others and that brings me to my second point.

Second, they stay true to their themes and don't become unlikable. Humans, Orcs, and Night Elves have had tons of screen-time, but most of it is empty and doesn't resonate with the race or just betrays what people like about the race. They don't use their themes, their characters look like idiots, and they just don't do things that makes you want to like them. The Blood Elves however have played to their history. The various Blood Elf groups are being used and not forgotten(Silver Hand, House of Nobles, Sentinels, ect). Minor characters get screen time instead of just the top 3. What the Blood Elves do feels like what a Blood Elf would do unlike the other factions.

Blood Elves are in great shape and I would love it if the other races got the same kind of treatment as them.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2014, 02:30 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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forsaken are pretty well off, if you excuse being lead by an obvious raid boss one day.

I dunno how any single person her can vote for orcs, even gnomes are better off then orcs right now.
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2014, 02:51 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Nobody is unscathed but some have bore the brunt better than others.

Humans: Only Varian, Jaina and Anduin exist. Humanity has not developed outside of its leaders personal stories since Vanilla.
Dwarves: Sucked into Varian's Black Hole of plot-injected retardation. Received a far less deadly dosage than Tyrande.
Gnomes: Might as well not exist. Have barely developed since Vanilla aside from failing to retake Gnomeregan and exist to be 'that whacky gadget' quest giver.
Night Elves: Obvious.
Draenei: Don't exist. Savages of Draenor may resolve this temporarily.
Worgen: Don't exist. Turned into furry night elves.
Orcs: Obvious.
Trolls: See also Humans. The Darkspear have had some decent development though most of it has been Vol'jin's personal story.
Tauren: They lack much of the spot light but they're in decent-ish shape. Sunwalkers added some progression, Cataclysm added some decent narrative even if it wasn't big in terms of effecting the metaplot. Consistent.
Undead: Lich Queen derailment. This depends on how much you (dis)like the Cataclysm story.
Blood Elves: Inconsistencies again. Went from grey fel-vampires into essentially being High Elves. Constant whitewashing isn't helping.
Goblins: Faring better than the Gnomes. Bilgewater Cartel has had some decent appearances and Goblins are shown very frequently but they could do with less side-kick roles and more memorable, long-term characters. There's the Gallywix issue of course.

All in all I'm going to hand this to the Dwarves. If we ignore my nit-picking of Blood in the Snow and ye olde problem of the Council being suggested by Anduin they've had some pretty good side-story development in the form of Ulduar, Brann is a decent example of an Alliance-leaning quasi-neutral, the Explorer's League are frequent and they're set to receive a fair few persistent characters in Warlords of Draenor. Aside from my broken record of Anduin/Varian they've managed to progress in the story without being majorly hampered by those changes.

Runner-up goes to the Blood Elves. I suspect people are voting for them because their recent lore has been much more front and centre (Dominance Offensive and Isle of Thunder), but in the process we've also had them turn from morally ambigious to basically being red High Elves in the space of one expansion and the afore mentioned white washing which looks bizzare at best or idiotic at worst in that the nation of dedicated and proclaimed 'masters of the arcane' couldn't figure out what Fel was.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2014, 02:53 PM
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Going to actually not say the Draenei. We know what they're doing: preparing for the apocalypse. The Burning Legion is coming back and Velen wants to be ready this time, we should be seeing more of that from them.

edit: thought the thread title said WORST shape and replied according to that, I'm dumb

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  #13  
Old 04-17-2014, 02:53 PM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Nobody is unscathed but some have bore the brunt better than others.

Humans: Only Varian, Jaina and Anduin exist. Humanity has not developed outside of its leaders personal stories since Vanilla.
Dwarves: Sucked into Varian's Black Hole of plot-injected retardation. Received a far less deadly dosage than Tyrande.
Gnomes: Might as well not exist. Have barely developed since Vanilla aside from failing to retake Gnomeregan and exist to be 'that whacky gadget' quest giver.
Night Elves: Obvious.
Draenei: Don't exist. Savages of Draenor may resolve this temporarily.
Worgen: Don't exist. Turned into furry night elves.
Orcs: Obvious.
Trolls: See also Humans. The Darkspear have had some decent development though most of it has been Vol'jin's personal story.
Tauren: They lack much of the spot light but they're in decent-ish shape. Sunwalkers added some progression, Cataclysm added some decent narrative even if it wasn't big in terms of effecting the metaplot.
Undead: Lich Queen derailment. This depends on how much you (dis)like the Cataclysm story.
Blood Elves: Inconsistencies again. Went from grey fel-vampires into essentially being High Elves. Constant whitewashing isn't helping.
Goblins: Faring better than the Gnomes. Bilgewater Cartel has had some decent appearances and Goblins are shown very frequently but they could do with less side-kick roles and more memorable, long-term characters. There's the Gallywix issue of course.

All in all I'm going to hand this to the Dwarves. If we ignore my nit-picking of Blood in the Snow and ye olde problem of the Council being suggested by Varian they've had some pretty good side-story development in the form of Ulduar, Brann is a decent example of an Alliance-leaning quasi-neutral, the Explorer's League are frequent and they're set to receive a fair few persistent characters in Warlords of Draenor.

Runner-up goes to the Blood Elves. I suspect people are voting for them because their recent lore has been much more front and centre (Dominance Offensive and Isle of Thunder), but in the process we've also had them turn from morally ambigious to basically being red High Elves in the space of one expansion and the afore mentioned white washing which looks bizzare at best or idiotic at worst in that the nation of dedicated and proclaimed 'masters of the arcane' couldn't figure out what Fel was.
Really well put!

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Old 04-17-2014, 03:01 PM
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You know, it's weird how much people agree on this. It's basically between the two races who are pretty similarly solid, just whether or not you think that the whole High King issue weighs more heavily on the dwarves than the whitewashing the Blood Elves got. I'd probably go for the blood elves, because they seem to be appearing as a major story next expansion, and I'd say that the purge of Dalaran seems to be the defeat the Alliance was "asking for" throughout the whole bloody faction war- one that actually gave them cause to rally around, yet wasn't a crippling, pointless loss.

I get why people'd say Humans, but the problem is that yeah, you're either a Wrynn, borderline (plot induced) psychotic or not very useful. And Kosak seems to be certain that outside of Theramore/the forsaken no Lordaeronian citizens exist. And the forsaken have a similar problem, but remove the Wrynns and plot induced psychosis.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Runner-up goes to the Blood Elves. I suspect people are voting for them because their recent lore has been much more front and centre (Dominance Offensive and Isle of Thunder), but in the process we've also had them turn from morally ambigious to basically being red High Elves in the space of one expansion and the afore mentioned white washing which looks bizzare at best or idiotic at worst in that the nation of dedicated and proclaimed 'masters of the arcane' couldn't figure out what Fel was.
This paragraph makes me want to headbutt a cactus until until there are no more spikes left on it.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:13 PM
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Orcs. They went out in a blaze of glory. Pretty much what they've always wanted.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:17 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Oh right, it's -story- from a meta perspective. I voted on stuff like potential and apparent national power, population, economy, stability etc, etc.

Eh, despite my complaints, I'll still go with dwarves. Blood Elves still have one problem in my eyes: Being part of the Horde still for no good reason that has never been adequately explained.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:37 PM
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Expanding on dwarves. Sure we get a lot of blood elves in every expansion (BC playable belfs, followed by Sunreavers, Amani plot, and then Sunreaver Onslaught), but dwarves have it good right now. Really good. Their only hiccup has been the Varian-imposed Council of Three Hammers.

The Council of Three Hammers, despite the stupidity of its origins with Stormwind, was an incredible step in a positive direction. Moira is back! her son is heir to the kingdom! Dark Irons are now part of the Alliance! Kurdran is back! Falstad (who is not dead) plays a more prominent role! The Wildhammers are now fully in the Alliance and part of Ironforge! Ironforge is secure and has not been plagued with invasion by the Horde (Darnassus, Gilneas), economic downturns (Stormwind), a fallen city (Gnomeregan), or aloofness from Alliance affairs (Exodar). Dwarves control huge swaths of territory either de jure or de facto: Dun Morogh, Loch Modan, Wetlands, Twilight Highlands, Badlands, Searing Gorge, the Hinterlands, etc. The Explorer's League is still miles ahead of the Reliquary in knowledge, resources, and technique. All in all, the dwarves have become exceedingly stronger over the past two expansions.

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Oh right, it's -story- from a meta perspective. I voted on stuff like potential and apparent national power, population, economy, stability etc, etc.

Eh, despite my complaints, I'll still go with dwarves. Blood Elves still have one problem in my eyes: Being part of the Horde still for no good reason that has never been adequately explained.
They were alienated from Dalaran and Garithos's New Alliance. They were barely keeping their heads afloat in Quel'thalas from the undead and trolls. They otherwise received no support from the Alliance. The Forsaken offered them support in the Ghostlands, which would also potentially come with additional Horde support. They decided to join the Horde.

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  #19  
Old 04-17-2014, 11:36 PM
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For me, it will be the Blood Elves. The only possible challenger, the dwarves, aren't even in the same league as them. Basically, the Dwarves lack a Dark Iron presence in the Cata questing as friendly NPCs and actual appearances in MoP which don't make them look retarded for doing nothing with a threat at their doorstep.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:36 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Belf.*

Pretty much everyone is in a shitty position except for the Dwarves.


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*=With the caveat that even they aren't in that great a spot due to aforementioned whitewashing which has made them red high elves.
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  #21  
Old 04-17-2014, 11:58 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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On the subject of the Three Hammers.

It's worth noting that both their leadership page on the main website and the dwarf character intro video makes NO mention of Varian or Anduin suggesting it. They both say the dwarves created it.

The devil is in the details, but still.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2014, 03:56 AM
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Dwarves got that sweet potential but little chance of anything coming from it.
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
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On the subject of the Three Hammers.

It's worth noting that both their leadership page on the main website and the dwarf character intro video makes NO mention of Varian or Anduin suggesting it. They both say the dwarves created it.

The devil is in the details, but still.
Well, Anduin suggested it, Varian agreed to it, the Dwarves just technically created it from their idea.

It's still idiotic that they even needed the humans to come up with the concept.
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