Eh, i don't think that'll ever work. He'd probably have to use mindcontroll or mental shackles or whatever, and that'd piss the Orcs, especially Thrall, off way too much, he survive the

expansion....
wait. You know you might be on to something there.

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Fel Orcs do not necessarily have to be bonechewing bloodboils or some slaves under mind control. We have seen sane Dragonmaw Fel Orcs on the Netherwing flying isle.

There red orcs acting as horde sentries in the dark portal too...

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Exactly,and that gave me this idea.

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I'd say that Garrosh would sooner try and create chaos orcs, like the ones his father had, then go for the degenerate fel orcs.

Though it is far to repetitive of a plot to work... I hope.

EDIT: To add a bit more to the discussion, what I would like to see is that those experiments end up alchemical in nature, with RAS leading the charge (Sylvanas will claim chain of command as an excuse). And other darker elements of the Horde such as dark shaman, witch doctors, maybe some BE corrupt arcanists and so on. Because bringing excessive demons, OGs or whatever into it will ruin the flavor of it being a raid on Orgrimmar (i.e. the Horde).

Who knows what sort of bullshit they are going to pull with this. For all we know they could be a new definition of Red Demon Orc minus the demon. I mean Gurtogg Bloodboil a heavily mutated Felorc was pretty much the pinnacle of the Fel mutation. Where as suddenly in Cata we unexplainably get further Orc mutations minus the fel taint through Raz the Crazed and Korm Bonegrind. As these Dire Orcs are (since no other lore really exists) unnatural experiments to begin with (since thats what Gurtogg was) we are left to see that the Horde must have already been creating these monster orcs. Now we have Lava Guard Gordoth created by the Dark Shamans magics... I guess he's mutated with the power of Lava? It seems (and I could be wrong) that demon blood specifically Pit Lord in the creation of these Orcs by the dark shaman. I have a feeling this is all going to be just bad writing by the end of it and nonsensical model usage. I loathe this shit when they establish a reason something happens then dash the established laws to the rock just for no real reason.

It's possible the Felorcs are just Felorcs from outland, which then raises bigger questions about why we are getting Dark Shaman rather than the established Burning Blade in the revamp. Who knows... maybe Garrosh was a Dreadlord all along or something lame.

The whole Darkshaman plot grates me on first (and generally baseless/ignorant) observation. Without knowing too much of the story it seems like the Dark Shaman are just Twilights Hammer with another name. We just spent a whole expansion with the Twilights Hammer and the Elementals being placed in front of us the whole time. More than three quarters of the Twilights Hammer NPCs of all races were "Dark Shaman". So... since theres a heavy established connection between the Oldgods and the Elements and their followers and shamanish, are we to assume that these "Dark Shaman" are you know... Oldgod followers? Based on their similar experiments and what not it seems likely.

But we are told they are NOT Twilights Hammer, but another NEW cult of evil shaman. And since this seems to be a NEW group of former Horde members they are NOT the Burning Blade who previously occupied the area. So... are we ruling out Oldgods, Illidari and the Legion and then reusing their methods, plot hooks and Identity to be something new? It's bland...

An evil shaman cult by any other name is still an evil shaman cult. Unless theres something going on with Garrosh that would say, convert members of the Twilights Hammer meaning Oldgod connection as he wouldnt accept them back anyway. Or theres some sort of Legion connection and he is now accepting back the Felhorde members, which goes against his established story with his father. Without knowing the full story this following his dads foot steps thing is pretty balls.

I hope if he IS making NEW Felorcs and Evil Shamans he atleast found the Chaos Well still in operation (As its entirely absent from the game). Otherwise I call bullshit. The secret reclamation of the Chaos Well is the ONLY thing that should happen to remotely progress this story in a positive way, but at the same time, what would drive Garrosh to go agains't EVERYTHING his character was established to desire. Daddy's redemption was the only thing to rouse him from apathy, following toe for toe in Daddy's foot steps makes little sense unless he is forced to untilize something like the Chaos Well. But even such, if these experiments are already being conducted with his understanding and support then that cannot be the case. There for something has to be pushing him to take a shit on everything Thrall worked for and everything he stood for. If this is not the case then its just another Garrosh weird schizophrenia moment, which it's starting to seem like his character may have.

I'd be surprised if Garrosh would be cool with using fel in any form.

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It'd certainly be a total reversal of his character.

Not that that's ever stopped them in Garrosh's case.

Garrosh: "Boohoo hooo hooo. My Daddy didn't love me and was a monster."
Thrall: "No Garrosh, your father was a hero and sacrificed himself to undo all he did agains't the very being that damned our species"
Garrosh: "Yay my Daddy is a hero!"
Thrall: "Lets be friends."
Garrosh: "I want to be Warchief and you are stupid"
Thrall: "Well, since you killed Cairne I see no other option, see ya I'm on a boat"
Garrosh: "Yay! I'm warchief, lets do war and stuff. But don't forget the honor and what not, thats key."
Garrosh: "Honors over rated, I know how I can make Daddy be proud of me. I'm going to totally make a Felorc army, turn the Shamans to evil, turn the Horde agains't itself and totally like drink some demon blood! Seriously, that Thrall guy made a lame horde, how can I best piss him off. Lets burn down Ogrimmar!"

Seriously what the fuck is his problem.

Sounds like normal Garrosh to me...

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I want two sigs now...

Can you and Volkrin kindly fight to the death for a bit? It would make my decision much easier.

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VOLKRIN! FACE ME COWARD!

Maybe he is creating those dire orcs, like the one we see at the end of Gilneas.

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Why can't they just be normal Orcs? Corrupt as in having a perverted sense of ideals compared to the majority of the Horde?

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“Popularity, I have always thought, may aptly be compared to a coquette - the more you woo her, the more apt is she to elude your embrace.” - John Tyler

I feel the same way, this whole thing just cheapens it. It's waving a big red "LOOK HOW BAD GARROSH IS, WE HAVE TO KILL HIM HE IS THE RAID BOSS" flag and it entirely unnecessary. Having the Older wiser members of the Horde be divided against the younger brasher members = justified. Having the younger members pull a Original Horde 2.0... moronic. These are Orcs that have been RAISED with the ideals and stories of what befell their ancestors. Theres no way half the faction would suddenly up and embrace everything they have been warned against because their temporary warchief says so. Whats wrong with war being for political reasons to displace a douche nozzle warchief.

Personally I dislike how dumbed down stuff like this feels. Like the players are children that need to be told that Garrosh is now bad and their hands need to be held with things like demons, oldgods and bad lookin dudes to drive the point home. Honestly if people can't figure out after all the events that are supposedly going to occur during MoP that we might have to kill Garrosh and having been out right TOLD that before the games even out then they really really need better writers.

I want to kill Garrosh because the dude just needs killing, not because he is Sha/Demon/Oldgod/Spooky evil flavor number 4 possessed. He can do questionable things, hell I'll even bite on the Chaos Well thing I mentioned earlier just because its the only reasonable excuse for the things that are occurring that's tied to his history. But the reality of it is that it might end up coming across like they are talking... really... slowly... in... small... words... because we are all too dumb in their mind to understand basic concepts.

The Horde is also a very young state as well so divisions in political ideology between the generations on how the Horde's future should be handled is a very natural and real development in the story. Leave out all of the external influences and allow the division in the Horde to become the forefront of the story, not some fucking dreadlord or tentacle monster under the ground.

As for the Alliance and why they should help, perhaps Garrosh gets his hands on some of the Mogu and Zandalari, forcing them to create an army powerful enough so that he defeat the Alliance in Pandaria and eventually, the rest of Azeroth as well.

There would only be a small window of opportunity for the combined forces of Thrall and Varian to remove Garrosh from his seat of power and it would be at the end of MoP.

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“Popularity, I have always thought, may aptly be compared to a coquette - the more you woo her, the more apt is she to elude your embrace.” - John Tyler

The Alliance doesn't need a particular reason to want Garrosh out at this point of time. Everything that happens in MoP would just be gravy. More effort should be placed on justifying why they think Thrall would be better, beyond "he's not Garrosh".

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1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

The thing is Son that warcraft, under Metzen, is a very idealistic place. He wants the Alliance to be extremely pissed at Garrosh (to make his dethroning satisfactory) but at the same time they want the Alliance feeling supper heroic and saving orc civilians, his exact words were that Varian will declare how the Alliance will brook no civilian casualties and how the Alliance needs to save the orcish people who have been put on by a bad man.

And imho the only way for Garrosh to produce such a state, and make Thrall blow his teapot, is to have a over the top regime of evulz.

Basically I am agreeing with you, it is horrible horrible writing (ditto on divulging the end before the start).

The Alliance invasion should create a sea of blood in Orgrimmar. Kill all the orcs in sight. That's how it should be done. But nooooo,we gotta save the kids cuz oh noes, big bad Garrosh is boogieman. I don't want heroism,i want carnage ! Make the orcs pay for what they did to Theramore !

Death to the Blackbloods ! For Theramore !

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I think it works out just fine, because what it shows is how the orcs who willingly followed Garrosh as warchief were so nieve to his brutal nature, they allowed themselves to follow in suit to his bloodlust and conquest.

What I want to see by the end, is Garrosh erupting with, say, losing more in his war, and him turning on his own people, all for the sake of conquest. This is why the other horde leaders step up to take him down.

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That always annoyed me. Far as I can tell nothing ever refers to them as dire orcs.

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Well, nothing ever tells that Chaos Orcs are somehow different from Fel Orcs either.

People need to realise that Garrosh is hell bent on proving himself to his father and he thinks the only way that can be done is to destroy the Alliance... I have a feeling he will go to far with them instead of do something with his own people so i am going to bet that what he is doing either involves torturing the Alliance.

Either that or to somehow empower his people so that they would become unstoppable (do not forget he has began to lose quite a lot of battles lately so he will begin to get despirate).

I do hope that Garrosh lives and is only defeated and then exiled by his people but unfortunatly i doubt Alliance players would even fathom the Alliance allowing that the way they react to everything else.

Someones mad at Alliance fans.

lolllll.

Garrosh deserves what he gets. Exile? Really? For the last boss of an expansion?

I hope you get disappointed hard.

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Things Ferlion can't kill: Frost Orbs on LK.