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  #1  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Default SPOILER: Tyrael becoming human?

So I'm not powering through the game as fast as others, both due to my inherent tendency to explore as much as I can in such games, and because I'm preparing for an upcoming move. However, something is... bugging me about Tyrael's newfound humanity.

The ending cutscene of act 1 shows Tyrael removing his wing... armor... things, and becoming human or seemingly human. Am I the only one a little bothered by this?

The original humans or Nephalem, were created by renegade demons and angels mating or combining their essences or whatever metaphyiscal beings do instead of coitus. Now, personally, I've always been a little bothered by the fact that all angels seem to be humanoids in armor with tentacle wings, when compared to all of the various forms demons can take, but what bothers me now is that essentially a depowered angel looks identical to a human.

If that's the case, then couldn't any angels that have removed their wings in the past been "human"? It just strikes me as a bit odd that an angel that chooses to fall can become a human, rather than what I thought was the unique intermingling of demon and angel. I mean, one could (potentially correctly) argue that Tyrael as a fallen angel lacks the raw potential of a nephalem, but even the fact that he's identical to a human being just rubs me the wrong way. It takes humans from "angel+demon" to simply "less than an angel".
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I guess it's time to say goodbye to designer rank
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Le Omacron.
Maybe he chose to take that form. He probably could have taken any form he wanted, but since he associated mortality with humans that was what he became.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:30 PM
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I guess it's time to say goodbye to designer rank
Maybe he chose to take that form. He probably could have taken any form he wanted, but since he associated mortality with humans that was what he became.
This isn't fucking reddit.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:36 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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This isn't fucking reddit.
I'm not really sure about what being a reddit entails, but if it is what I think it is you don't have to worry. I wasn't trying to vote your post up or down...
The angels, to me, seem to be like wow's ethereals. Able to take any form they wish. If that is the case choosing to take on a human form makes sense, since he want's to live amongst humans.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:44 PM
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Maybe he wasn't truly human yet, just lost his power then took a human form.

The Prime Evils got no real body, can they take angel's body as host?
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:12 PM
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I'm not really sure about what being a reddit entails, but if it is what I think it is you don't have to worry. I wasn't trying to vote your post up or down...
The angels, to me, seem to be like wow's ethereals. Able to take any form they wish. If that is the case choosing to take on a human form makes sense, since he want's to live amongst humans.
People on reddit love to put "le" before random nouns. You called me "Le Omacron".

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Old 05-19-2012, 07:27 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
So I'm not powering through the game as fast as others, both due to my inherent tendency to explore as much as I can in such games, and because I'm preparing for an upcoming move. However, something is... bugging me about Tyrael's newfound humanity.

The ending cutscene of act 1 shows Tyrael removing his wing... armor... things, and becoming human or seemingly human. Am I the only one a little bothered by this?

The original humans or Nephalem, were created by renegade demons and angels mating or combining their essences or whatever metaphyiscal beings do instead of coitus. Now, personally, I've always been a little bothered by the fact that all angels seem to be humanoids in armor with tentacle wings, when compared to all of the various forms demons can take, but what bothers me now is that essentially a depowered angel looks identical to a human.

If that's the case, then couldn't any angels that have removed their wings in the past been "human"? It just strikes me as a bit odd that an angel that chooses to fall can become a human, rather than what I thought was the unique intermingling of demon and angel. I mean, one could (potentially correctly) argue that Tyrael as a fallen angel lacks the raw potential of a nephalem, but even the fact that he's identical to a human being just rubs me the wrong way. It takes humans from "angel+demon" to simply "less than an angel".
Well maybe the human form is what humans got from the Angels and when they become evil they start to look like the demons they become when they serve the demons. Hence why when Tyrael takes his wings off he looks like a human.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:30 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is online now

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I think it is more to do with his choice of becoming Human instead of being a Angel. The reason i think this is because of Imperius's reaction to what he had done and when he showed Leah it was to show her that he had sacrificed his powers to become Mortal (due to her questioning him).

Otherwise i am not to sure myself other than the fact that i like him in that form.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:43 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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I think it is more to do with his choice of becoming Human instead of being a Angel. The reason i think this is because of Imperius's reaction to what he had done and when he showed Leah it was to show her that he had sacrificed his powers to become Mortal (due to her questioning him).

Otherwise i am not to sure myself other than the fact that i like him in that form.
I for one look forward to our 'Imperius decides he wants to kill everyone' expansion.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:50 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is online now

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I for one look forward to our 'Imperius decides he wants to kill everyone' expansion.
Yeah i was very surprised he never had a bigger role in this expansion within a Act. I do expect the Archangels to have a Civil War of such since technically Diablo would not have come back if it was not for the Humans (plus he simply thinks they are beneath him).
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:02 PM
Mshadowz Mshadowz is offline

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I beat the game and nowhere does it explain how he becomes human. Someone ask Metzen!
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:06 PM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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People on reddit love to put "le" before random nouns. You called me "Le Omacron".
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:48 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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People on reddit love to put "le" before random nouns. You called me "Le Omacron".

Everyone knows Reddit is better than 4chan.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:00 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Everyone knows Reddit is better than 4chan.
You are quite possibly the last person on the planet I would have expected that from.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2012, 10:41 PM
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Humanity is the alternate form, the essence of change and potential. The Diablo series isn't about angels and demons, or angelic war, but the essence of attempting to change the inevitable. You, as a hero, aren't supposed to be achieving some prophecy or goal, but rather triumphing over chance and accepted futures to create something that's not only unexpected, but outright unfathomed in comparison with the order envisioned by virtual demigods.

Regardless if you are nephalim or simply a battle-hardened warrior, the point is that Tyrael seeks the ability to choose his future as opposed to fulfilling a prophecy or plan set before him. His story is a parallel to our own characters, a willingness to go above and beyond expectation into the realm of hope and derision, where your future is not predetermined, but rather simply wished for in an enviably prosperous universe. If our characters could not rise from the ashes, or Tyrael succeed in his own right, it is the simple act of attempting to shift the envisioned into a preternatural realm where it is more will and skill than accepted decision that creates a future. Whether he or we honor this determination, someone is going above and beyond the boundaries of order and chaos into the realm of humanity, where the two intertwine to create a whole new world.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:46 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
Humanity is the alternate form, the essence of change and potential. The Diablo series isn't about angels and demons, or angelic war, but the essence of attempting to change the inevitable. You, as a hero, aren't supposed to be achieving some prophecy or goal, but rather triumphing over chance and accepted futures to create something that's not only unexpected, but outright unfathomed in comparison with the order envisioned by virtual demigods.

Regardless if you are nephalim or simply a battle-hardened warrior, the point is that Tyrael seeks the ability to choose his future as opposed to fulfilling a prophecy or plan set before him. His story is a parallel to our own characters, a willingness to go above and beyond expectation into the realm of hope and derision, where your future is not predetermined, but rather simply wished for in an enviably prosperous universe. If our characters could not rise from the ashes, or Tyrael succeed in his own right, it is the simple act of attempting to shift the envisioned into a preternatural realm where it is more will and skill than accepted decision that creates a future. Whether he or we honor this determination, someone is going above and beyond the boundaries of order and chaos into the realm of humanity, where the two intertwine to create a whole new world.
TLDR bro


Regardless of how much he wants to change, without being half demonic I don't see how Tyrael could possibly become human.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:03 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
TLDR bro


Regardless of how much he wants to change, without being half demonic I don't see how Tyrael could possibly become human.
I think maybe the idea might be that rather than a combining of angel and demon to create a mix of both in every Nephalem, it's more that both natures canceled each other out, leaving behind something that exists submerged in both demons and angels, while removing the constraints on fate and potential caused by the nature of each.

So in theory, the Naphalem aren't necessarily so potentially powerful because they carry the essence of angel and demon, but because the mixing could have negated both sides and they carry neither. Hence, Tyreal casting off his angelic nature could have resulted in the same essential thing: a being bound by the rigid fate and narrow potential of an angel casting it off.

After all, what becomes of humans who side with the demons? They basically start to become like the demons themselves, and all that infinite potential the Prime Evils are looking to cash in on to use against the High Heavens goes out the window as such individuals just become monstrous servants of the Burning Hells without ambition or power beyond what they're granted by their masters.

In that vein, being an angel or demon may not itself even bring power, but rather define the narrow fate and limited purpose toward which said power is used, which could be what prevented them from using the Worldstone properly whenever either side claimed it.

In short, it may be that on some level, Sanctuary's human's aren't so much walking around with the combined essence of angels and demons in them, but rather demons and angels are walking around with the suppressed essence of humanity in them.

Last edited by ARM3481 : 05-20-2012 at 12:06 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2012, 12:36 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I think maybe the idea might be that rather than a combining of angel and demon to create a mix of both in every Nephalem, it's more that both natures canceled each other out, leaving behind something that exists submerged in both demons and angels, while removing the constraints on fate and potential caused by the nature of each.

So in theory, the Naphalem aren't necessarily so potentially powerful because they carry the essence of angel and demon, but because the mixing could have negated both sides and they carry neither. Hence, Tyreal casting off his angelic nature could have resulted in the same essential thing: a being bound by the rigid fate and narrow potential of an angel casting it off.
.
Eh the big thing about humans was that the power of the demons and angels was within them hence why both sides wanted to push them one way or another. Until they had their powers suppressed.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:55 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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The question is not "Why is Tyrael a human?", the question is "Why is he black?".
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:41 AM
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The question is not "Why is Tyrael a human?", the question is "Why is he black?".
Why can't he be black? It's not like black people don't exist in sanctuary. Hell, Westmarch, one of the European analogue cultures in Sanctuary, had black paladins.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:45 AM
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The question is not "Why is Tyrael a human?", the question is "Why is he black?".


Because black people kick ass.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:50 AM
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I suspect that the Barbarian ancients were angels fallen in a similar way. He might have taken human characteristics but might not be classically human. He does have golden eyes still.

But yeah, I did find the plot point to be a little lame and predictable from the get go, but honestly I loved the Act 1 cinematic enough that it redeemed the entire thing.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2012, 10:53 AM
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I suspect that the Barbarian ancients were angels fallen in a similar way. He might have taken human characteristics but might not be classically human. He does have golden eyes still.

But yeah, I did find the plot point to be a little lame and predictable from the get go, but honestly I loved the Act 1 cinematic enough that it redeemed the entire thing.
Weren't the Barbarian ancients confirmed to be Nephalem in the Book of Cain? Bul-Kathos et al?
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:05 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Why can't he be black? It's not like black people don't exist in sanctuary. Hell, Westmarch, one of the European analogue cultures in Sanctuary, had black paladins.
Well, it wasn't a serious question and SmokeBladder got it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:30 PM
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LOL at title. Most retarded title ever...

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