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  #101  
Old 06-11-2012, 05:34 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
Stromgarde was brown, and Warsong was purple when both should be Red.

War3 really just had a bizarre contradiction to previous colors for no apparent reason and WoW went back and fixed everything right as rain. Except Kul Tiras turning to Dark Green from Teal, but War2 Teal was supposed to be green so whatever.
It's a combination of being color coded for the player's convenience, and the tendency to avoid redundant elements in the story, like people sharing first names*, or factions sharing colors*, or the races sharing silhouettes*.

So, in other words, it's gameplay trumping lore.

* No longer applicable to WoW, of course.
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.

Last edited by Millenia; 06-11-2012 at 05:37 PM..
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  #102  
Old 06-11-2012, 05:45 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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If people are so dumb they can't tell their own colored units from same-color units of a different race they have the fancy toggle team color button nobody ever used to deal with it.

Sure, there might be some minor confusion for Thrall-Warsong, but that's only one mission. Or, two I guess with the Fel pme, but they're all red in a different way.
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  #103  
Old 06-12-2012, 04:19 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
If people are so dumb they can't tell their own colored units from same-color units of a different race they have the fancy toggle team color button nobody ever used to deal with it.

Sure, there might be some minor confusion for Thrall-Warsong, but that's only one mission. Or, two I guess with the Fel pme, but they're all red in a different way.
It looks to me like it was just an ulterior rule: never have two players share a color. If they'd have to due to story, find a similar one for the CPU.
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  #104  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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What if the in-game colors, originally, weren't meant to represent the nation's color of choice and were just added for the player's convenience? (I didn't play WC or WC2 so I don't know if it has been stated that those nations/clans always use the in-game color)
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  #105  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:44 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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What if the in-game colors, originally, weren't meant to represent the nation's color of choice and were just added for the player's convenience? (I didn't play WC or WC2 so I don't know if it has been stated that those nations/clans always use the in-game color)
In the original Warcraft, it was all just Human Azeroth vs. the Orcish hordes. In the Human campaign your forces were always blue; in the Orc campaign your forces were always red.

In Warcraft II, the colors were established as representing different Human nations and Orc clans. It was spelled out in the manual and the in-game results screen. That being said, there were of course times when the color was probably not meant to represent its nation (example: Zul'jin was green and his fellow rescued Trolls were black, but they weren't members of the Bleeding Hollow or Black Tooth Grin clans.). And it was also a little iffy on representing the Quel'thalas nation during that invasion, as Quel'thalas wasn't a human kingdom and thus didn't have a color. It was shown as the blue "Nation of Azeroth" (it also had Human peasants, naturally).

In general, however, the colors were spot-on. The Human player usually had Azeroth and the Orc player usually had the Blackrocks... but still, you'd see red Stromgarde and black Black Tooth Grin fighting in Khaz Modan. White Lordaeron had a strong presence in the Northlands and Quel'thalas, along with the Blue Stormreavers and Purple Twilight's Hammer. The subplot of Alterac's betrayal begins with Human peasants rebelling and Alliance ships trying to assassinate Uther... both wearing Alterac orange, naturally. Those guys weren't very good at covert operations.

(And the worst part about that, is there was a Yellow color that was specifically named for "Alliance Traitors" or "Horde Traitors", which never got used in the campaigns.)
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  #106  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:56 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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@BaronGrackle: Thanks for the explanation. Still seems silly to me that they would constrain their story by making the colors part of the lore, even if the move was somewhat cool since it provided lore.

(Almost wrote Cackle instead of Grackle...)
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  #107  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:00 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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So the Sunreavers arcane nuked Jaina's tower?
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  #108  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:09 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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A little bit late, but yes.

They will receive absolutely no acknowledgement nor repercussions or consequences for their role in the massacre.
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  #109  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
If people are so dumb they can't tell their own colored units from same-color units of a different race they have the fancy toggle team color button nobody ever used to deal with it.

Sure, there might be some minor confusion for Thrall-Warsong, but that's only one mission. Or, two I guess with the Fel pme, but they're all red in a different way.
The thing is, in theory there is the worst case scenario where you can take over an enemy unit. Like the undead can with a banshee. The colors have been choosen with this in mind. It isn't important if your enemies share colors, but you and your enemy? It is a no go.

Also, as I mentioned before, unless they use a trigger, they can't assign two 'players' the same colors.

And about that fancy team color toggle.... That one is not aviable in the campaign, as you know, they created the whole campaign in a way so that you wouldn't need it...
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  #110  
Old 06-15-2012, 01:39 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
If people are so dumb they can't tell their own colored units from same-color units of a different race they have the fancy toggle team color button nobody ever used to deal with it.
It's unavailable in the campaign. And regardless, it would be confusing and really unnecessary. It's better the way they did it. Just have 'secondary colours' for factions.

And Jaina was always light blue. Even when blue wasn't being used by the Night Elves. Arthas' forces were just blue for some reason. The Silver Hand was light-blue. The Ranger Corps were blue. (But Quel'thalas was teal) Blood Elves were red. Garithos' army was light blue.

They just decided colours like that. For some factions they just changed the colour consistently. Warsong Clan is ALWAYS purple. Even when Thrall's orcs aren't around, Dalaran is purple except in the... missions where it actually shows up, Horde is always red, Tauren are always Orange, Arthas is always blue, until he becomes Undead, then he's always purple. They didn't always stick to the WC2 colours, but with a few exceptions they were always consistent. (Dalaran I think is actually the only case where it isn't consistent in the game itself and changes colour between missions.)

Again, Stromgarde is so minor, and is basically just an easter egg for the long-playing fans. (And a way to sort of distinguish the human camps you're fighting.) It doesn't really matter what colour it is. Grey fits Gilneas, they decided Kul Tiras should be Dark Green. (Which fits, and isn't that far off from the teal in WC2), Lordaeron is Light Blue (which is sort of like White). Oh I guess Jaina's forces are blue in that mission for some reason. And then they're blue in that dungeon mission. I can't remember which one is blue in the Wyvern mission. (I know blue and light blue are in that, but I can't remember which is which, and I can't remember what colour Jaina is. I think she's light blue in both, but it's been a little while.)

And actually, thinking about it, Stromgarde only lasts for like 5 seconds at the beginning of the mission. So it wouldn't have been so confusing to make it red, but it would have been kind of awkward mechanically and set a weird precedent.

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Honestly all the shit relating to the undead felt like it should've stayed mostly an Alliance thing, as it's the natural extension of the Alliance storyline after Warcraft 3. Demons and Undead are up in your grill, fucking your shit up. It makes sense that the storyline should've been about dealing with that.

Instead they were relegated to fighting Gnolls and Black Dragons while only the Horde got to fight the forces that eradicated Alliance civilization.
Uh, well until you start questing in the Plaguelands... I mean the only zone where the Horde fights the Scourge and the Alliance doesn't is Tirisfal and a *TINY* bit in Silverpine Forest in classic. That's true of Cataclysm as well. Except there's no Scourge in silverpine anymore.

Plus, honestly, the Black Dragon thing you're reviling was way more interesting and well developed than the Scourge were in classic WoW (and *subtle* Jeezus, subtlety in WoW... unthinkable). In classic WoW the Scourge were a bunch of idiotic zombies wandering the plaguelands.... actually that didn't change much in WOTLK...

...what the hell were they thinking when they wrote the Scourge in WoW? Sheesh. Terrible.
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  #111  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:06 PM
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Unit Color-Coding: The New Lamp Posts
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  #112  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:24 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
A little bit late, but yes.

They will receive absolutely no acknowledgement nor repercussions or consequences for their role in the massacre.
I thought it was only one who was truly responsible and the others were there to get his ass out Theramore
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  #113  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Rotal Rotal is offline

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The faction of the Colorblind laughs about your idle color-complaints.
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  #114  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:31 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Unit Color-Coding: The New Lamp Posts
Hardly?

Colour is an important element of the games' aesthetic. I dunno what the point of that lamp-post stuff was.
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  #115  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:41 PM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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I dunno what the point of that lamp-post stuff was.
It was a crucible, few survived with their sanity intact.
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  #116  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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As my re-play through continues, I found a most curious item in the wake of Jaina's ascent through Stonetalon...

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  #117  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:23 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
As my re-play through continues, I found a most curious item in the wake of Jaina's ascent through Stonetalon...

I have no idea what im looking at
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  #118  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:23 AM
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Items appear wherever in both Warcraft III and WoW. Some have reasons for being there, some do not.
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  #119  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:37 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by neoshadow View Post
I have no idea what im looking at
Atleast you're not one of those annoying person we all want to shoot, who quote entire paragraphs of text, or entire screenshots when replying.

...Oh wait.

/Bitchslap

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Items appear wherever in both Warcraft III and WoW. Some have reasons for being there, some do not.
Possible. I thought it was interesting to note, never the less.

Also, taking a closer look at Medivh's conversation with Thrall, Cairne and Jaina;



He really does appear to be talking about Lordaeron the continent, and not the kingdom. There is no mention of Quel'thalas or Dalaran.

I believe for all intents and purposes, at the time of Warcraft 3, the entirety of the humans worlds collapsed. The continent as a whole was probably thought lost, which is why Daelin crossed the oceans later on.
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  #120  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:38 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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Isnt that general behaviour in a zombie apocalypse where theres no long range communication, assume everyones dead?
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  #121  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:44 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
I believe for all intents and purposes, at the time of Warcraft 3, the entirety of the humans worlds collapsed. The continent as a whole was probably thought lost, which is why Daelin crossed the oceans later on.
That's what we all (?) though in WC3 times. What with the "Last Days of the Alliance" theme and all. Heck, Daelin himself was shouting "For Lordaeron! For Terenas!"

And then WOW, Stormwind out of nowhere! All-devouring undead plague? What undead plague?
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  #122  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:51 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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You'd think that was obvious. But apparently, there are opinions in the community which mean that the continent in its entirety were fine, and that only members of a particular nation fled across the sea, and that their legacy would thus be preserved at the cost of all others.

Let us not speculate deeper into that, however.
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  #123  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:53 AM
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Daelin left before Arthas destroyed the kingdom. It's later retconed by RotLK.
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  #124  
Old 06-23-2012, 11:56 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
You'd think that was obvious. But apparently, there are opinions in the community which mean that the continent in its entirety were fine, and that only members of a particular nation fled across the sea, and that their legacy would thus be preserved at the cost of all others.

Let us not speculate deeper into that, however.
I don't remember any members of community who ever actually had exactly these opinions.
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  #125  
Old 06-23-2012, 12:15 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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He really does appear to be talking about Lordaeron the continent, and not the kingdom. There is no mention of Quel'thalas or Dalaran.

I believe for all intents and purposes, at the time of Warcraft 3, the entirety of the humans worlds collapsed. The continent as a whole was probably thought lost, which is why Daelin crossed the oceans later on.
Nobody had any way of knowing what the status of Quel'thalas and Dalaran was because Jaina and company had already left at that point. Plus, Lordaeron the continent DIDN'T fall to the Legion. Gilneas wasn't crippled until WotLK and Stromgarde wasn't crippled by the Scourge. Kul'Tiras wasn't crippled either.

That said, in Warcraft 3 I don't think Lordaeron is ever referred to as a continent. Blizzard's been pretty bad about this but until World of Warcraft I don't think that they ever referred to the subcontinent as "Lordaeron."
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