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Old 03-14-2013, 01:31 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Panda Lore Information Gathering: Mogu

This is an spin-off thread from:

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...ad.php?t=53404

As discussed in there, we will collect any canon (and perhaps non-canon just for flavour and reference) information on anything related to Mogu.

Why start with Mogu? Well, as patch 5.2 hit live and with Blizz saying it's a final patch involving Pandaria in MoP, I think this way we can "honor" the current enemies, by making their pages readable, accessible and accurate.

This will be done in similar style to current WoWpedia pages, Wikipedia pages and Seven Kingdoms Thread on this very website.

Of course if you have ANY suggestions, contributions, please post in this thread or PM me. I hope if I am absent, some mods and admins can add the information too.

If there is a mistake or a lore asspull then please say it! Since that's what we will try to avoid.

Anyways, let's start.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:31 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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MOGU

SUMMARY



Outside Lore Information

Development: Any information on how such a race came to be. Information from Blizzard interviews etc.

Etymology: Plural for Mogu. Origin of the word etc.

Lore Information:

Origin:

All the Titan lore etc.

History:

(Very) Rough Timeline:

- Titanic Constructs.
- Curse of Flesh.
- Times of warfare before Lei Shen's rise.
- Lei Shen's rule as Thunder King.
- Lei Shen's death and following kings.
- Pandaren Revolution and defeat of the Mogu.
- Time after the Revolution and before the arrival of the Alliance and the Horde.
- Shao-Tien Mogu attacks (Vale), Mogu in Jade Forest, Mogu attacks in Towlong Steppes, Mogu presence in Krasarang Wilds, Zandalari Trolls attacks in Kun-Lai.
- Thunder King has risen!

Appearance/Biology

- Size, innate abilities (they were called magical race afaik)
- Curse of Flesh

Politics:

- Mogu meritocracy.
- Kings and clans. It's system.
- Relations (Within the clans, with Zandalari, with Mantid (Mogu had the wall built after all))

Organisations/Clans

- List of clans. (Korune, Gurthan, Harthak, Kargesh)
- Any other organizations (Shao-Tien)

Culture:

- Strength as an important factor.
- Mogu Magic and Classes: Flesh Shaping, Spiritbinding, Thundercallers etc
- Slavery.
- Quilen companions.
- Animated Constructs (May count together with Spirit Binding)/Technology

Places/Locations/Buildings:

- Architecture in general
- Mogu'shan Palace/Terrace.
- Valley of Emperors.
- Isle of Thunder.
- Former Empires in Krasarang, Dread Wastes.
- Serpent's Spine (Great Wall). etc

Notable Mogu:
- Lei Shen the Thunder King.
- Iron Qon.
- Xin the Weaponmaster.
- Shan Bu (siege of Nizao Temple and "final" enemy of Shado-Pan dailies)
- Zhao-Jin the Bloodletter (Golden Lotus dailies "final" boss)
- Spirit Kings.

Inspiration:
- Foo Dogs etc
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:44 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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This bit is a list of sources and the official information, that is just waiting to be written into better perspective.

If you think there is more to add, then please do so.


__________________________________________________ ________


Lore Information:

Origin:

All the Titan lore etc.
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218435
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218437

History:

(Very) Rough Timeline:


- Titanic Constructs.
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218435
- Curse of Flesh.
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218437
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218433
- Times of warfare before Lei Shen's rise (Age of Hundred Kings)
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218438
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218431
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218432
- Lei Shen's rule as Thunder King.
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218433
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218434
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213334
- Lei Shen's death and following kings (In no particular order)
- Emperor Dojan
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213330
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213328
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213329
- Emperor Dojan 2
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213332
- Two years of chaos. End of Dojanni Dynasty
- Qiang the Merciless (One of the Spirit Kings)
First written mention of the Yangol http://www.wowhead.com/object=213420
- Pandaren Revolution and defeat of the Mogu.
- Time after the Revolution and before the arrival of the Alliance and the Horde.
- Shao-Tien Mogu attacks (Vale), Mogu in Jade Forest, Mogu attacks in Towlong Steppes, Mogu presence in Krasarang Wilds, Zandalari Trolls attacks in Kun-Lai.
- Thunder King has risen!

Appearance/Biology

- Size, innate abilities (they were called magical race afaik)
- Curse of Flesh

Politics:

- Mogu meritocracy.
- Kings and clans. It's system.
- Relations (Within the clans, with Zandalari, with Mantid (Mogu had the wall built after all))

Organisations/Clans

- List of clans. (Korune, Gurthan, Harthak, Kargesh)
- Any other organizations (Shao-Tien)

Culture:

- Strength as an important factor.
- Mogu Magic and Classes: Flesh Shaping, Spiritbinding, Thundercallers etc
Flesh Shaping
Saurok:http://www.wowhead.com/object=213327
Spirit Binder
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213333
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213331
- Slavery.
- Quilen companions.
- Animated Constructs (May count together with Spirit Binding)/Technology
- Poetry etc
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218436

Places/Locations/Buildings:

- Architecture in general
- Mogu'shan Palace
- http://www.wowhead.com/zone=6182
-Mogu'shan Vaults
- http://www.wowhead.com/zone=6125
- Valley of Emperors.
- http://www.wowhead.com/object=213331
- Isle of Thunder.
http://www.wowhead.com/object=218432
- Former Empires in Krasarang, Dread Wastes.
- Serpent's Spine (Great Wall). etc
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213409
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213410
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213334

Notable Mogu:
- Lei Shen the Thunder King.
- Iron Qon.
- Xin the Weaponmaster.
- Shan Bu (siege of Nizao Temple and "final" enemy of Shado-Pan dailies)
- Zhao-Jin the Bloodletter (Golden Lotus dailies "final" boss)
- Spirit Kings.

Other tidbits (TO BE SORTED):
- Jinye/Murloc language predating Mogu Dynasty
http://www.wowpedia.org/Origins
- Purge of the Saurok
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213327
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213328
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213329
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213333
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213332
- Defense against the Mantid swarm:
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213409
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213411
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213334
- Stoneborn:
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213333
- First mention of the Yangol
http://www.wowhead.com/object=213420
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:54 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Reserved!
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:37 AM
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I'm a bit curious as to how the mogu get new mogu. In light of the reveal that Suen and Lu'lin are both the only mogu females and in fact constructs that embody Lei Shen's will, the source of mogu is pretty mysterious, especially given that we know mogu like Lei Shen are born.

Guess it's a question of what birth entails - maybe they're churned out as stone warriors by machines like the Forge of the Endless and later become fleshy.

Otherwise, I suppose you could reincarnate mogu over and over by infusing their souls into new bodies, though again those shells have to come from somewhere.

If a mogu spirit is infused into a stone body and becomes flesh later, it would raise some interesting implications about the Curse of Flesh - maybe it's carried through souls rather than through physical form.

Anyway, an interesting line of inquiry, sez I. And this is a worthy thread - the mogu are neat.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:22 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
I'm a bit curious as to how the mogu get new mogu. In light of the reveal that Suen and Lu'lin are both the only mogu females and in fact constructs that embody Lei Shen's will, the source of mogu is pretty mysterious, especially given that we know mogu like Lei Shen are born.

Guess it's a question of what birth entails - maybe they're churned out as stone warriors by machines like the Forge of the Endless and later become fleshy.

Otherwise, I suppose you could reincarnate mogu over and over by infusing their souls into new bodies, though again those shells have to come from somewhere.

If a mogu spirit is infused into a stone body and becomes flesh later, it would raise some interesting implications about the Curse of Flesh - maybe it's carried through souls rather than through physical form.

Anyway, an interesting line of inquiry, sez I. And this is a worthy thread - the mogu are neat.
This is the mystery I am trying to solve myself as well. I think it's mostly spirit binding, but I have no back up for that just yet. I do think maybe some female Mogu have existed, not sure about that. Will check in more detailed once I finished collecting viable information.

I do hope other people will chip in later on, or else this thread is just my little corner of insanity here xD
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HoodedMan View Post
This is the mystery I am trying to solve myself as well. I think it's mostly spirit binding, but I have no back up for that just yet. I do think maybe some female Mogu have existed, not sure about that. Will check in more detailed once I finished collecting viable information.

I do hope other people will chip in later on, or else this thread is just my little corner of insanity here xD
There was a queen, which was murdered by Lei.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:58 AM
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They must have some way to reverse the Curse of Flesh. Maybe an Y'shaarj connection? Deathwing was able to reverse it, probably through the Old Gods.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:35 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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What do you think about Summary's layout? What should I add etc?

I will start collecting lore information soon, for now very busy irl. I did say this is the long-term project, right? xD
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:40 AM
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I like it
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
I'm a bit curious as to how the mogu get new mogu. In light of the reveal that Suen and Lu'lin are both the only mogu females and in fact constructs that embody Lei Shen's will, the source of mogu is pretty mysterious, especially given that we know mogu like Lei Shen are born.

Guess it's a question of what birth entails - maybe they're churned out as stone warriors by machines like the Forge of the Endless and later become fleshy.

Otherwise, I suppose you could reincarnate mogu over and over by infusing their souls into new bodies, though again those shells have to come from somewhere.

If a mogu spirit is infused into a stone body and becomes flesh later, it would raise some interesting implications about the Curse of Flesh - maybe it's carried through souls rather than through physical form.

Anyway, an interesting line of inquiry, sez I. And this is a worthy thread - the mogu are neat.
Mogu were created via the Engine of Nalak'sha and others like it.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:48 PM
Golden Yak Golden Yak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Mogu were created via the Engine of Nalak'sha and others like it.
I'm aware that's how they were originally created, I'm curious as to how they maintain their numbers. I mentioned the creation machines and that the mogu may replenish their ranks with mogu newly created from those machines in the present era.

But Lei Shen was said to have been born the son of a warlord, and I'm wondering what that entails - whether he had a mother, whether his father created him from a machine, etc.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:59 PM
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Well given that they likely didn't cure the Curse till after Ra was defeated they probably had babies the normal way.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Golden Yak Golden Yak is offline

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You'd think so, but this description from the dungeon journal

Quote:
The Twin Consorts are said to be greatest of the Thunder King's treasures. Rumored to be the only known female mogu in existence, Lei Shen keeps his trophies close and their combined arsenal against interlopers closer.
implies that Suen and Lu'lin are the only female mogu. And the encounter design information states this:

Quote:
Players may have noticed the complete absence of any female mogu in their exploration of the continent of Pandaria. Players who look closely at the models of these celestial twins will note that they seem quite literally carved out of stone. Indeed, these were specifically created by Lei Shen and empowered to serve and guard him, and they are a direct reflection of his will rather than any broader sense of mogu culture as a whole.
Implying that those two are constructs built by Lei Shen. So this isn't a case of a race simply not having a female representation in-game, like gnolls or troggs or ogres. There appears to be no female mogu at all, or if there are any they are kept isolated.

There is mention of a mogu queen in a quest, but the NPC doesn't appear to be in the game files, so I don't know if the quest is actually canon or not.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:35 PM
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It's possible that the lore object is not meant to be taken literal and was merely a story written by the Mogu. A lot of the lore objects on Pandaria are written in the 'point of view' of the Mogu, Pandaren, Jinyu and etc.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:04 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
You'd think so, but this description from the dungeon journal



implies that Suen and Lu'lin are the only female mogu. And the encounter design information states this:

Implying that those two are constructs built by Lei Shen. So this isn't a case of a race simply not having a female representation in-game, like gnolls or troggs or ogres. There appears to be no female mogu at all, or if there are any they are kept isolated.

There is mention of a mogu queen in a quest, but the NPC doesn't appear to be in the game files, so I don't know if the quest is actually canon or not.
"only female mogu in existence" = Only female mogu at this present time.

"only female mogu that existed/ever ever exited" = Only female mogu in history.

The Twin are the supposedly the only modern female mogu. But there's evidence that support the existence of female mogu in the past.

My guess is that, when de-fleshed, Mogu where turned into males or forcibly turned into males. We haven't see any unorganic Titan creation with gender, because as unorganic beings, they don't need being female or male.

Gender is, as far as we know, a counsequence of the Curse of Flesh. Mechagnomes, Earthen and Tol'vir didn't have females, but their fleshed descendents do. I think that, when the Curse of Flesh was eliminated, the mogu (this new stony mogu) were simply turned into males, into their original designes.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:07 PM
Golden Yak Golden Yak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
It's possible that the lore object is not meant to be taken literal and was merely a story written by the Mogu. A lot of the lore objects on Pandaria are written in the 'point of view' of the Mogu, Pandaren, Jinyu and etc.
None of this info comes from a lore object. There's the dungeon journal description of the Twin Consorts, an official encounter design preview from Blizzard, and a quest from the game files that may or may not be active. It's all pretty far removed from in-story mogu propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
"only female mogu in existence" = Only female mogu at this present time.

"only female mogu that existed/ever ever exited" = Only female mogu in history.

The Twin are the supposedly the only modern female mogu. But there's evidence that support the existence of female mogu in the past.
I'm wondering if they're a bit like queen bees or ants, with a single mother churning out loads of bebbies and being kept far from any danger.

Quote:
My guess is that, when de-fleshed, Mogu where turned into males or forcibly turned into males. We haven't see any unorganic Titan creation with gender, because as unorganic beings, they don't need being female or male.

Gender is, as far as we know, a counsequence of the Curse of Flesh. Mechagnomes, Earthen and Tol'vir didn't have females, but their fleshed descendents do. I think that, when the Curse of Flesh was eliminated, the mogu (this new stony mogu) were simply turned into males, into their original designes.
Could be, although there are female titanic watchers. In many cases the female counterpart of an NPC race (gnolls, ogres, etc.) is simply omitted due to time and resource constraints. And I would have thought this was another case. But the specific mention in the dungeon journal piqued my curiosity.

It'd be interesting if this is the case with all titanic creation races.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:12 PM
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We haven't see any unorganic Titan creation with gender, because as unorganic beings, they don't need being female or male.
Besides watchers/keepers. Perhaps, you should say "We haven't seen any female unorganic Titan creations that lack self-awareness, because as unorganic beings with no notion of self, those that aren't self-aware don't need genders and the male gender is the default".
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:14 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Besides watchers/keepers. Perhaps, you should say "We haven't seen any female unorganic Titan creations that lack self-awareness, because as unorganic beings with no notion of self, those that aren't self-aware don't need genders and the male gender is the default".
I should have said Unorganic Titan "races".

But yeah, don't count individual constructs in what I said.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:17 PM
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I should have said Unorganic Titan "races".

But yeah, don't count individual constructs in what I said.
Some claim that keepers are a race.
(Shirley, I jest. That seems like a better solution to the keeper exclusion dilemma.)
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:17 PM
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There's also the possibility that by seeking to return the mogu to the way they were and reversing the Curse of Flesh, Lei Shen could have dictated that the female mogu all be killed in order to eliminate what he came to view as a symptom of the Curse and a trait of the weaker, "lesser" races.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:19 PM
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There's also the possibility that by seeking to return the mogu to the way they were and reversing the Curse of Flesh, Lei Shen could have dictated that the female mogu all be killed in order to eliminate what he came to view as a symptom of the Curse and a trait of the "lesser" races.
They reverse the curse of flesh by transferring souls, right? Wouldn't the construction of only male statues/vessel have sufficed? There's no need to waste good souls.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:23 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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They reverse the curse of flesh by transferring souls, right? Wouldn't the construction of only male statues/vessel have sufficed? There's no need to waste good souls.
We don't know that. We know they reverse it. And for me that means that they were like the Neferset, whose bodies were de-fleshed.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
They reverse the curse of flesh by transferring souls, right? Wouldn't the construction of only male statues/vessel have sufficed? There's no need to waste good souls.
So far the transferring of souls into statues has been made out to be a pretty much one-sided, master-and-automaton transaction; there aren't any gigantic stone mogu ordering around any other mogu, or really even acting particularly intelligent most of the time. The fleshy-looking (but not actually fleshy) mogu are running the show, and if they aren't cured of it, then they can't really be said to have reversed the Curse I wouldn't think.

Plus their practice of enslaving each other and their victims in stone bodies doesn't really strike me as contextually consistent with the idea of actually reversing the Curse of Flesh; it seems more like what the Scourge does, only with souls stuck into statuary instead of rotten meat.

Additionally killing a person wouldn't really waste their soul anyway; the mogu kill people all the time before harvesting their souls, usually after a hefty bout of pre-mortem torture to teach the captured enemy a lesson. It's how they rip the soul out and prep it for further torment before jamming it into a statue to animate or into a storage medium for later use.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So far the transferring of souls into statues has been made out to be a pretty much one-sided, master-and-automaton transaction; there aren't any gigantic stone mogu ordering around any other mogu, or really even acting particularly intelligent most of the time. The fleshy-looking (but not actually fleshy) mogu are running the show, and if they aren't cured of it, then they can't really be said to have reversed the Curse I wouldn't think.

Plus their practice of enslaving each other and their victims in stone bodies doesn't really strike me as contextually consistent with the idea of actually reversing the Curse of Flesh; it seems more like what the Scourge does, only with souls stuck into statuary instead of rotten meat.

Additionally killing a person wouldn't really waste their soul anyway; the mogu kill people all the time before harvesting their souls, usually after a hefty bout of pre-mortem torture to teach the captured enemy a lesson. It's how they rip the soul out and prep it for further torment before jamming it into a statue to animate or into a storage medium for later use.
I always thought that the statue-like mogu are those statues that get non-mogu souls, and that they use different rituals and statues when they want to create true mogu.
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