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Old 12-28-2009, 06:54 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Default Nalice - And the Black Flight

For some reason and for what little part she actually plays out - Nalice, the ambassador of the black dragonflight, has won a place in my heart.

What I'd like to know is... What reason do the Black Dragons have for joining the accord? And what is the other dragons reaction to their presence?

It was my understanding that there was a full-blown war between the Blacks and the rest of the flights. Malygos wasn't targetting the black flight in any way, the shrine was under attack by Scourge forces - but the Wyrmrest Accord focused on fighting Malygos, not the Scourge.

What is the Black Dragonflight's purpose in the Nexus wars?
What could they possibly gain by defeating Malygos?
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:12 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
For some reason and for what little part she actually plays out - Nalice, the ambassador of the black dragonflight, has won a place in my heart.

What I'd like to know is... What reason do the Black Dragons have for joining the accord? And what is the other dragons reaction to their presence?

It was my understanding that there was a full-blown war between the Blacks and the rest of the flights. Malygos wasn't targetting the black flight in any way, the shrine was under attack by Scourge forces - but the Wyrmrest Accord focused on fighting Malygos, not the Scourge.

What is the Black Dragonflight's purpose in the Nexus wars?
What could they possibly gain by defeating Malygos?
The black dragonflight didn't want Malygos to be the most powerful Aspect if he won the war.

No Malygos equals less things to go against Deathwing when he emerges from the ground.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:17 PM
ShinMaruku ShinMaruku is offline

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Malygos is also one of the aspects who would break the rules to kick deathwing's ass too
Shame he did not try to kill Krasus.
He's the only being as manipulative and scheming as deathwing.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:30 PM
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Who knows, maybe joining the Wyrmrest accord was a diversion by the black flight so people wouldn't notice them gearing up for cataclysm.


Or maybe Deathwing is acting mostly independent from the rest of his flight, and they are very decentralized with Nef and Ony dead.



Or... maybe, since Blizz admitted they didn't initially plan for Cata to follow WotLK, they didn't intend for the blacks to be villains again when they drafted the nexus war story.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:35 PM
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So Deathwing would remain the most powerful? No. The black dragonflight joined the Accord because of tradition. Tradition, and they had a personal grudge against the Scourge. The Obsidian Dragonshrine was being defiled, and they needed help. They may have only cared because it was a personal insult, and not because they thought the shrine was sacred, but they still cared.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:46 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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So Deathwing would remain the most powerful? No. The black dragonflight joined the Accord because of tradition. Tradition, and they had a personal grudge against the Scourge. The Obsidian Dragonshrine was being defiled, and they needed help. They may have only cared because it was a personal insult, and not because they thought the shrine was sacred, but they still cared.
Pretty much. The Accord was not solely against the Blues, but against the Scourge as well who was defiling the Dragon blight - resting place for ALL dragons. Also, Deathwing had been apart from his flight for some time. Nobody knew if he was alive or dead or what he was doing, and most of the other blacks had been acting independently.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:56 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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There's also the little bit about the potentially catastrophic effects of the leylines all being forcibly redirected. If Azeroth gets ripped apart or reduced to a barren rock, the Black Dragonflight wouldn't benefit from it any more than the rest of the world. They want to conquer Azeroth and rule over the "lesser races", not annihilate it or see it scoured clean of everything. Deathwing's basically a complete headcase simmering under a facade of composure who's as likely to try to destroy everything given half a chance as not (especially in his true form; as soon as he's back in "dragon mode", he seems to dismiss the whole smooth-talking act and pretty much reverts back to the old WotA-style cackling, shrieking maniac persona), but the rest of his flight seems to have more often just become evil supremacist jerks without completely losing their sanity in the process.

Of course, the fact is nothing that Nalice has players do is related to the Blue Dragonflight's activities anyway (for that matter, Chromie and the Green Dragonflight representative don't personally send us against Malygos' followers either). So it could be that in accordance with the traditions of Wyrmrest being neutral ground for all dragons, the flights always have a few representatives there (in the case of Nalice, probably at least pretending to be slightly more reasonable than her brethren) and Nalice might just be borrowing from the influx of mortals assisting the other flights to get the Scourge rooted out of her flight's Dragonshrine.

Really, I think it might be interesting if it turns out that some of the Black Dragons have a bit of a problem with their patriarch showing up in Cataclysm and bringing along what basically amounts to a "better" brood to replace them. When one thinks about it, if the Twilight Dragons turn out to be so much stronger than his own children, the Destroyer might opt to just cast off the Black Dragons and let them perish along with every other creature he judges unworthy.

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Old 12-28-2009, 09:46 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Of course, the fact is nothing that Nalice has players do is related to the Blue Dragonflight's activities anyway (for that matter, Chromie and the Green Dragonflight representative don't personally send us against Malygos' followers either). So it could be that in accordance with the traditions of Wyrmrest being neutral ground for all dragons, the flights always have a few representatives there (in the case of Nalice, probably at least pretending to be slightly more reasonable than her brethren) and Nalice might just be borrowing from the influx of mortals assisting the other flights to get the Scourge rooted out of her flight's Dragonshrine.

Really, I think it might be interesting if it turns out that some of the Black Dragons have a bit of a problem with their patriarch showing up in Cataclysm and bringing along what basically amounts to a "better" brood to replace them. When one thinks about it, if the Twilight Dragons turn out to be so much stronger than his own children, the Destroyer might opt to just cast off the Black Dragons and let them perish along with every other creature he judges unworthy.
Neutral ground? Aren't there blue dragons flying around attacking the place?

Deathwing is bringing twilight dragons from the Elemental Plane? He didn't cast out the black dragons when he was creating the nether dragons or the chromatic dragons.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Who knows, maybe joining the Wyrmrest accord was a diversion by the black flight so people wouldn't notice them gearing up for cataclysm.


Or maybe Deathwing is acting mostly independent from the rest of his flight, and they are very decentralized with Nef and Ony dead.



Or... maybe, since Blizz admitted they didn't initially plan for Cata to follow WotLK, they didn't intend for the blacks to be villains again when they drafted the nexus war story.
I think it's the second one you listed. I don't think that the entire Black dragonflight is loyal to Deathwing. I don't think Onyxia and so on would have just let Deathwing take control of their broods had he came back when they were alive
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:55 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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I think it's the second one you listed. I don't think that the entire Black dragonflight is loyal to Deathwing. I don't think Onyxia and so on would have just let Deathwing take control of their broods had he came back when they were alive
I think she would have. She was always shown as being highly deferential to Deathwing, and he’s the rightful leader of the flight.

The thing is, for whatever reason he chose to remain absent. It was the somewhat convoluted reasoning given in NotD, where because Deathwing had been failing at creating an uber-flight on his own he let the other blacks like Ony. Nef, Sinestra, etc. run their own plans without his influence so that he could then swoop in and steal their work.

Omacron was just saying that because DW is still absent, and Ony, Nef, and Sinestra are all dead, the Blacks Dragons have no real leadership. So someone like Nalice sees the black dragon’s resting place getting defiled and is then able to take action without a consensus from a unified flight.
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:46 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The thing is, for whatever reason he chose to remain absent. It was the somewhat convoluted reasoning given in NotD, where because Deathwing had been failing at creating an uber-flight on his own he let the other blacks like Ony. Nef, Sinestra, etc. run their own plans without his influence so that he could then swoop in and steal their work.
In a way it really makes a lot of sense. Ever since DotD, in a world where the Aspects are restored to their full strength (though obviously not full sanity quite yet in Malygos' case), if whispers began to rise of Deathwing being behind the activities of his progeny and consort, the other Dragonflights would be all over it in a heartbeat with the Aspects themselves probably leading the charge if they thought the Destroyer himself might be present. As was seen in DotD, prior to the Spellweaver's "recovery" in WotLK, the one thing that seemed to restore Malygos to a state of moderate lucidity (if only for a while) and drive the Aspects to personally get involved it was the chance to eliminate Deathwing.

Instead things like Nefarian's and Sintharia's experiments were left to brew until they nearly got out of hand, dismissed as the actions of rogue Black Dragons, at which point only a few agents of the Dragonflights were sent to help dismantle their plans. Afterward Deathwing could quietly gather up the prime bits of data and material from both places with none the wiser, allowing him to acquire years worth of research and specimens without having to actually do the work himself and risk exposing his existence to the other Aspects.
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:48 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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I think she would have. She was always shown as being highly deferential to Deathwing, and he’s the rightful leader of the flight.

The thing is, for whatever reason he chose to remain absent. It was the somewhat convoluted reasoning given in NotD, where because Deathwing had been failing at creating an uber-flight on his own he let the other blacks like Ony. Nef, Sinestra, etc. run their own plans without his influence so that he could then swoop in and steal their work.

Omacron was just saying that because DW is still absent, and Ony, Nef, and Sinestra are all dead, the Blacks Dragons have no real leadership. So someone like Nalice sees the black dragon’s resting place getting defiled and is then able to take action without a consensus from a unified flight.
If Nefarion = Chromatic and Sinestra = Twilight, which one was Onxyia connected to? Nether?
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:55 PM
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If Nefarion = Chromatic and Sinestra = Twilight, which one was Onxyia connected to? Nether?
She was primarily keeping the Alliance off Nefarian's back and creating as much chaos as she could from her position as advisor to the Regent Lord and King. Nefarian's operation was situated between Ironforge and Stormwind, and as Katrana Prestor his sister prevented Stormwind from mobilizing to help Ironforge pacify the general mess occurring in the Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge due to the presence of both the minions of Ragnaros and Nefarian. Had she not done so, the armies of Stormwind would have probably reacted to the camps full of Blackrock orcs invading the Redridge countryside and Nefarian would have found his army beset by the Alliance in addition to the Dark Irons.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:02 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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She was primarily keeping the Alliance off Nefarian's back and creating as much chaos as she could from her position as advisor to the Regent Lord and King. Nefarian's operation was situated between Ironforge and Stormwind, and as Katrana Prestor his sister prevented Stormwind from mobilizing to help Ironforge pacify the general mess occurring in the Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge due to the presence of both the minions of Ragnaros and Nefarian. Had she not done so, the armies of Stormwind would have probably reacted to the camps full of Blackrock orcs invading the Redridge countryside and Nefarian would have found his army beset by the Alliance in addition to the Dark Irons.
I wonder if Deathwing would have taken/approved the "plagued dragonflight" in Scholomance if it was still around.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:21 AM
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I wonder if Deathwing would have taken/approved the "plagued dragonflight" in Scholomance if it was still around.
Aside from the obvious function of killing things, the Scourge's plagues exist first and foremost to ensure that whatever they kill swiftly becomes a minion of the Lich King afterward.

So I wouldn't imagine him liking the idea of Scourge-plagued dragons, considering their entire purpose was to create dragons controlled by the will of somebody who's not Deathwing.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:31 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Aside from the obvious function of killing things, the Scourge's plagues exist first and foremost to ensure that whatever they kill swiftly becomes a minion of the Lich King afterward.

So I wouldn't imagine him liking the idea of Scourge-plagued dragons, considering their entire purpose was to create dragons controlled by the will of somebody who's not Deathwing.
I thought the plagued dragons weren't undead? They are listed as dragonkin. Even the new ones up in Northrend, plagued proto-dragons, seem to be listed as dragonkin versus undead like frost wyrms, emberwyrms, magmawyrms, fel dragons, etc.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:48 AM
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I thought the plagued dragons weren't undead? They are listed as dragonkin. Even the new ones up in Northrend, plagued proto-dragons, seem to be listed as dragonkin versus undead like frost wyrms, emberwyrms, magmawyrms, fel dragons, etc.
That's because there's an implied "yet" in their not being dead. The Scourge infuses various creatures with plagues for the purpose of seeing what sort of undead things they mutate into as the plague twists their biology and gradually kills them. Naturally, beginning the process when they're whelps would create more opportunities for variations in change as the dragons went through the stages of physical maturation while under the effects of the contagion. Then when the plague eventually kills them, it would shortly afterward "revive" the subjects as a fresh new undead monstrosities in service to the Scourge.

Otherwise, there wouldn't really be much purpose to plaguing dragons if they retained the will to think for themselves and potentially refuse the Lich King's commands. As for the plagued protodrakes, they're already domesticated and basically animals, so they already serve the Lich King through service to their Vrykul masters.

Plus the other function of plaguing creatures - after killing them and turning them into thralls of the Lich King - is to turn them into carriers for the purpose of spreading their disease to other living things, thus further expanding the potential for adding "recruits" to the Scourge.

Ultimately, everything the Scourge does - from slaughtering living beings to exhuming the remains of the fallen to subjecting live prisoners to experiments - is motivated by the encompassing goal of turning its victims into servants of the Lich King. Even without the Legion's initial purpose of clearing the way for their own vanguard, that's still the prime reason the Scourge exists: to kill any who oppose it and add them all to its ranks, with plague-based experiments and modifications being a secondary bonus meant to increase their effectiveness as soldiers.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:50 AM
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After Sinestra's death, the Blacks also needed a safe place to breed and raise their twilight drakes. When they were building wotlk, the idea of Deephome probably hadn't even crossed the drawing board, and some cave under Grim Batol that's even deeper and even darker just isn't cool enough. The Chamber of the Aspects, on the other hand, made for a pretty good alternative.

The rules for accessing the CotA seems to have changed in the ten-thousand years since it was last used, and if DW himself wasn't doing the gruntwork of breeding and raising them, perhaps the rest of his flight needed to use the portals beneath Wyrmrest Temple to get there...hence, making nice with the other flights and playing the good partner while they did their secret stuff right beneath Alex's feet.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:29 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Otherwise, there wouldn't really be much purpose to plaguing dragons if they retained the will to think for themselves and potentially refuse the Lich King's commands. As for the plagued protodrakes, they're already domesticated and basically animals, so they already serve the Lich King through service to their Vrykul masters.
So will the plagued protodrakes eventually turn undead too? And will the vrykul under the Lich King eventually all be forced to become vargul or val'kyr? There is that battle of ascendance at Jotunheim where the winners are not turned undead.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:46 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Nefarian isn't dead though, is he? He retreated towards the Blackwing Descent?
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:53 AM
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he isn't dead, although he is atm missing a head ^^
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:35 AM
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Really, I think it might be interesting if it turns out that some of the Black Dragons have a bit of a problem with their patriarch showing up in Cataclysm and bringing along what basically amounts to a "better" brood to replace them. When one thinks about it, if the Twilight Dragons turn out to be so much stronger than his own children, the Destroyer might opt to just cast off the Black Dragons and let them perish along with every other creature he judges unworthy.
I like this. Black Dragonflight, new Hero Class?
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:57 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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he isn't dead, although he is atm missing a head ^^
This is something I think Blizzard could play with. Deathwing himself has been fortifying his body with more and more metals as his skin and scales slowly melt away from his own rage. Imagine if he took whatever metals he has been using (More Adamantite? A new metal we have yet to see? More questions....) and created a massive metal dragon-head, attaching it to the still decaying body of Nefarion and then someone imbuing his lingering soul into it. Would look badass.

Or maybe they can mix it up and make it so Deathwing turns him into like a metal Frost Wyrm, rebuilding his skeleton from pure adamantite and giving him the metal head.
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:30 AM
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Depending on just how long the soul persists after beheading, I was thinking quite the opposite, rather than robot head on a fleshy body, fleshy, decaying head on a robot body!
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:19 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Depending on just how long the soul persists after beheading, I was thinking quite the opposite, rather than robot head on a fleshy body, fleshy, decaying head on a robot body!
How'd he get the head back?

And I was thinking 100% mechanical body, maybe with a heart or brain or other internal organs. Think General Grievous but a dragon
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