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Old 08-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Human Icon (War3) New Chris Metzen interview.

Chris Metzen did an interview with a British magazine not long ago. There's not a lot of "new" info here, but he explains some things like the Eredar confusion and the history of Warcraft as well as some new drawings. By the way, it's intentionally black and white. No colour in the interview.





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Old 08-27-2010, 01:59 PM
Whowho Whowho is offline

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Haha, I loved it when he talked about the guys that shouted 'you unbelievable bastard! You betrayed all of us!' That was us lot ^^
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:04 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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Chris Metzen makes Jaff Kaplan's view of game design understandable.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:09 PM
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Chris Metzen makes Jaff Kaplan's view of game design understandable.
1. Good read

2. Eh?
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:12 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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My thoughts on this subject can be summed in quotes from characters of WC3

"You did this to our people? willingly?"- Thrall

"Betrayer of the Light!" - Arthas"

"Betrayer, when in truth it was I who was betrayed"- Illidan


Fuck you Metzen, the scar you have left will never heal, granted it is not his fault alone but blizzard is dead to me
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Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Romaneck View Post
My thoughts on this subject can be summed in quotes from characters of WC3

"You did this to our people? willingly?"- Thrall

"Betrayer of the Light!" - Arthas"

"Betrayer, when in truth it was I who was betrayed"- Illidan


Fuck you Metzen, the scar you have left will never heal, granted it is not his fault alone but blizzard is dead to me
o.o


I say again... Eh?
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:18 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
o.o


I say again... Eh?
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Megatron: You've forgotten something else: I am your prisoner. I've been granted conditional bail while we look for the Knights of Cybertron. Where in my bail terms does it say—where precisely does it say—that I have to risk my life to save a handful of strangers? Where does it say that?

Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Romaneck View Post
My thoughts on this subject can be summed in quotes from characters of WC3

"You did this to our people? willingly?"- Thrall

"Betrayer of the Light!" - Arthas"

"Betrayer, when in truth it was I who was betrayed"- Illidan


Fuck you Metzen, the scar you have left will never heal, granted it is not his fault alone but blizzard is dead to me
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:19 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Romaneck View Post
Fuck you Metzen, the scar you have left will never heal, granted it is not his fault alone but blizzard is dead to me


Seeing as how this thread began life as a series of images, all responses must follow suit. On with the show!
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:26 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Seeing as how this thread began life as a series of images, all responses must follow suit. On with the show!
No.

I want to see some of these "Eh?"s answered.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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I still don't understand how stuck people are on that. It was one goddamn sentence in the backstory section of a manual.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:32 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
I still don't understand how stuck people are on that. It was one goddamn sentence in the backstory section of a manual.
It was the plot. And considering Warcraft III is the foundation of all current Warcraft lore, it was THE plot.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:42 PM
Joshmaul Joshmaul is offline

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Oh, for Christ's sake, you whining masses of subhumanity, SHUT THE FUCK UP! Let us pick apart the lore in peace!
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:52 PM
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thing is, it sounds like Metzen learned from it. He has an idea he liked, implemented it, heard out outrage... and it made him remember that if something similar would have happened in his "sacred cow" settigns, he'd be just as outraged.

And I think it showed he learned, the Lore in Cata, even in WotLK is much better. Things are getting fleshed out, and it's really cool.

Well, just my 2 copper.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
It was the plot. And considering Warcraft III is the foundation of all current Warcraft lore, it was THE plot.
It didn't change the plot....
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:13 PM
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It didn't change the plot....

This.

Did the draenei worshipping the light change that they were nearly wiped out by orcs? Did their cities being "advanced" rather than crude change so freaking much?

Did Akama and his people being "assassins/lostones" in WC3 block all other possibilities forever?

Is it so terrible that Kil'jaeden and the eredar were corrupted after Sargeras went nuts rather than before?

Really, it's not that big a deal.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:20 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
I still don't understand how stuck people are on that. It was one goddamn sentence in the backstory section of a manual.
Just to make sure, what is that sentence you're talking about?
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:22 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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I really bothers me that people are still making a big deal about this. I'd assume you are just trolling because being outraged at Metzen's lore flub back in TBC is the cool thing to do (if you are retarded or live in 2007).

Compare:

"Though Sargeras' nearly limitless powers were more than enough to defeat the vile eredar, he was greatly troubled by the creatures' corruption and all-consuming evil. Incapable of fathoming such depravity, the great Titan began to slip into a brooding depression. Despite his growing unease, Sargeras rid the universe of the warlocks by trapping them within a corner of the Twisting Nether." - Warcraft 3 Manual

To...

"Nearly twenty-five thousand years ago, the eredar race arose on the world of Argus. They were extremely intelligent and had a natural affinity for magic in all its myriad forms. Using their gifts, they developed a vast and wondrous society.

Unfortunately the eredar's accomplishments caught the attention of Sargeras, the Destroyer of Worlds. He had already begun his Burning Crusade to eradicate all life from the cosmos, and he believed that the brilliant eredar would be pivotal in leading the vast demonic army he was gathering. Thus, he contacted the eredar's three most prominent leaders: Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, and Velen. In exchange for the loyalty of the eredar race, Sargeras offered untold power and knowledge." - TBC Lore

This in no way effects any of the events of WoW's Eredar/Sargaras or Warcraft 3's plot, Eredar or Sargaras in any way. It just means they left the door open for Sargeras's corruption when otherwise they had closed it. It went from "The eredar did it" to "The eredar didn't do it", big... fucking... whoop. Eredar were and still are (regardless of this change) a race we had just been introduced in Warcraft III alone (Kil'jaden doesn't count because he was a generic demon up until that point). Instead they changed one of the most evil species of demons that Warcraft's universe had known, to having relatives. They ARE still the most evil demons ever, they just got better more fleshed out lore than a few sentances. I personally prefer depth to "LOL, We is bad to the bone, dudes!", maybe its just me. Draenai got more interesting, Eredar stayed roughly the same, Sargeras has the potential to be more interesting via the current lore. The new lore is actually much stronger than the old, and the story possibilities created by this change define WoW as we know it.

Either way, he said he was sorry in pretty much the most human grown up way possible, and still people enact Godwin's Law on him for it.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 08-27-2010 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Just to make sure, what is that sentence you're talking about?
the one where it says Kil'jaeden and the dreadlords are what made Sargeras go crazy I think.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:31 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Seems to me the people making the biggest deal out of it at the moment are the ones who can't stand how big a deal people are making out of it...
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:42 PM
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Seems to me the people making the biggest deal out of it at the moment are the ones who can't stand how big a deal people are making out of it...
See post #5 and then say that, please.
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:02 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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As for the Eh pointed at me, I just don't really like Metzen. I don't know him personally, but his actions and body of work lead me to believe he's a pretentious egomaniac. Kaplan: similar, but slimier. With Kaplan, he seems to be a straight up malicious competitive douchebag. Making those two sit at a table and work on a project together would've drove me bonkers within minutes.
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
As for the Eh pointed at me, I just don't really like Metzen. I don't know him personally, but his actions and body of work lead me to believe he's a pretentious egomaniac. Kaplan: similar, but slimier. With Kaplan, he seems to be a straight up malicious competitive douchebag. Making those two sit at a table and work on a project together would've drove me bonkers within minutes.
I think you're confusing laid back to the point of non-chalance with pretentious. The Metzen of this article doesn't believe he's some godlike figurehead to Blizzard, he just believes that he added something where before there was just a quick and dirty blurb. That we got attached to said "blurb" was a fluke and it caused him to reevaluate everything from our perspective and reground himself in the creative process.

Ego would have been "I can change anything at a whim and these douche fuckers will eventually eat it up anyway." Instead he apologized for the gaff, but formally stated that it was staying because it was better (in his opinion) for future content than what had existed before.

That said, he does have a very cushy position (something he himself notes) and thus he's going to become a bit estranged from the lowly nerds who's fantasy he supports. Still he's a far cry from some other authors who think their work is pure mana from heaven.
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:48 PM
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His illustration skills leave a lot to be desired, his themes in WoW are mostly pastiches, and he voices far too many faction leaders. I never said my opinion of him was affected by the article.

I'd be more interested in reading an article about his goals for the warcraft story, and why he feels the steps he's outlined thus far are important. I'd be interested in hearing how he led the creative team around business mandates, and what he feels are sacred cows or clichs in the WoW universe. I'm not interested in reading another article pandering to the obsessive inner geek in all of us.

Granted I skimmed it, so I'll give the scans a better read tomorrow when I'm not hung over.
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:55 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Seems to me the people making the biggest deal out of it at the moment are the ones who can't stand how big a deal people are making out of it...
And still are. Many people are very sheepish and will actually direct their ire at anyone who wont accept the same crap that they suck down with a smile, the I get so angry when someone questions authority! crowd. There are a couple of posters on here who exemplify this, and they know who they are.

At the same time, there is a point where a certain degree of outrage over a fictional universe is completely uncalled for. Wishing harm upon the guy for a retcon or never forgiving him is rather unwarranted, especially since he apologized and explained his reasons.

Here is the thing though. With this, it kind of makes it seem like he knowingly retconed the Draenei backstory. Id have actually much preferred he came out and said that straight-out in his apology, like yeah guys, sorry but it had to be done. It will all be for the best in the long run (and I personally think we did get some good stories out of it). Unfortunately, thats not what he did.

When he said that he had forgot the detail is I think what mad people angry. It just smacked of laziness. For many occupations, careful research is crucial. I know it is for what I do, and when I am tasked to write something (albeit, nonfiction) I make it a point to have as solid a foundation of knowledge on the subject as possible. Consider that the Eredar-Sargeras history was pretty much the ONLY information that was established about them, and it occurs to you that even the most cursory investigation into established continuity would have revealed that information and a retcon could have been avoided. That means, if they did indeed forget this detail, that they didnt research at all.

Now, even the biggest bootlickers should want to avoid retcons where possible, and I dont know any warcraft fan (at least I hope not) who would say Yeah Blizz, just add whatever you want to the story without checking if it fits first! Will anyone on SoL stand for that notion? That, I think is what angered people, because it evidenced a rather careless disregard for something that we, as fans, cared a lot about. Many fans invested a lot into this fictional universe, and fans appreciate it when creators do the same.
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