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Old 09-24-2017, 08:23 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
(I don't have a problem with national anthem-hating sports twerps being uninvited to the White House. Going to the White House is a privilege, not a right. You shouldn't get extra benefits just for playing ball well.

Also, on an unrelated topic, Trump is a deplorable man-child, so anyone uninvited should jump at any excuse to miss it.)
1. I still don't think it's right to conflate silent protest with hatred of America or the flag or anthem.

2. Being uninvited isn't the issue I have, it's THE PRESIDENT saying people ought to be fired over it, and that I feel he's dog-whistling to Neo-Nazis by saying they oppose 'our' heritage.

3. See below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
Let's put it like this.
Barring cases like California legally speaking you can be fired for your political expression. It does not matter if it's on or off the clock or otherwise extreme or mild, there is pretty much no protections for that. "Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences," as some would say.
If you do not want to face the potential of being fired for political opinion, then keep your head down.
We don't have to like that or agree with it but that's the current reality.
My issue isn't so much the legal grounds for whether they can be fired or not, my issue is that morally, I feel many people do not actually believe in the right to protest. They just want protesters to be quiet and out of the way and go about their daily lives. Anything the protesters bring up, no matter how bad it is, no matter what the truth is... so long as it doesn't affect 'the masses' personally, some people won't care. Apathy and normalcy are more important than structural inequality in our nation or issues affecting these communities disproportionately.

Whether it's on the streets for large numbers of people (Accused of being universally violent or being jobless moochers), or people in high status using their means to reach larger numbers of people (Accused of bringing politics where it doesn't belong, or of not being sincere and just wanting spotlight), there's no 'acceptable' way to protest according to a lot of folks that isn't ignoreable.

And on top of that, anyone who protests is seen as hating America, hating authority, etc... instead of fighting for justice or opposing injustice affecting their family and friends.


4. I dislike that everything falls into the dichotomy of "Legal vs. Illegal"

Some things are legal that are stupid and terrible. Some laws are poorly constructed and need to be changed. Law is not some word of god handed down from on high, it's something we, as citizens, create. And it should change over time as moral standards, technology, and economics change.

Some things are illegal that don't make sense, or aren't effective as punishments for achieving the goal of the laws that are in place (The war on drugs as one big example of a system not being terribly effective.)

Moreover, even before addressing whether law needs to be changed, we should at least be able to recognize differing situations in day to day life and make moral judgements on them.

5. I think Trump is a dreadful human being, and I think him saying these people should be fired sets a bad precedent for our moral character as a nation regardless of whether it's legal or illegal to fire them or suggest as much.

I think he's appealing to an ugly, bigoted undercurrent in our society, that thinks they ought to just be "grateful" they were successful, (ignoring their own hard work in getting where they are), and shut up about issues affecting them and their communities because many people don't want to acknowledge we still have problems with inequality, they want it to be a dying specter or overexaggeration by the 'fake news' and 'evil liberals', when that's not the case.


Now folks don't have to agree with me, and I won't think people are 'bad' based solely on a disagreeing with me, but I'm a bit tired of being treated like I'm pushing for sweeping legal reform and thought police every time I voice a personal opinion.
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