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  #5501  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:14 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacofonix View Post
The Night Elves shouldn't care about whatever trauma Humans have and be able to wipe out the Orcs who keep messing with them without them. That doesn't happen in WoW after getting shoehorned into the Alliance.
I'll say again that I haven't paid much attention to Kul'Tiras, so I could be wrong here, but I haven't heard much about Night Elves having much of a presence in Kul'Tiras or Zandalar. I've heard the most about the latter, which appears to be restricted to Shandris and three sentinels. It's odd and I'd prefer for her to be in Kalimdor, but whatever.

Lordaeron is another matter, fine, but everyone showed up for that, and it's difficult to claim that it was done purely for human territorial ambitions. The Capitol City is the largest blight research and production facility in existence, and capturing or killing Sylvanas would have ended the war.

Meanwhile, we have mission table missions that, last I checked, included the Night Elves striking or defending areas across Kalimdor, including Orgrimmar. That hardly says to me that they are not making the effort to "wipe out" the orcs. It also looks like they are having some success.

I am of course the first to acknowledge red flags and concerns as they arise, and my perception of everything that I just said is going to hinge on presentation. (Still waiting for the core of that Teldrassil scenario) But thus far, it doesn't look like Night Elves are subordinating their interests to humans in the manner your post implies.
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  #5502  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:48 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacofonix View Post
The Night Elves shouldn't care about whatever trauma Humans have and be able to wipe out the Orcs who keep messing with them without them. That doesn't happen in WoW after getting shoehorned into the Alliance.
I don't really see the night elves killing children, unless there's something I missed.
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  #5503  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:06 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I don't really see the night elves killing children, unless there's something I missed.
I don't really see them going out of their way to kill kids, but I also don't imagine they would go out of their way to avoid it. Cutting off resources including food as a response to the wrath gate is a rather bold statement in that direction.
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  #5504  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:27 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Interesting tidbits about Alliance campaign in the official forums:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765136354

SPOILERS!

Quote:
I just finished the campaign. (as far as one can go due to you need to do stromgarde).

chapter 3 has you hunt and kill goblins. Umbric gives you a void stone to use to send shredders into the void.

We find out Gallywix is looting Atal'dazar and stealing their gold. We chase him to his pleasure palace in azshara and kill a bunch of golfers and subathers. He escapes using a decoy.

Chapter 4 This takes place during the time the horde has the player find derek body. Shandris and falstad takes on the horde. You nearly die to Nathanos, but falstad hammers him and saves you.

You corner blood prince draven on the other boat. You bring him to 40% health as he tries to bubble hearth, but shandris kills him.

final chapter involves you infiltrating the harbor. You plant bombs on two major zandalari flagships. Slay 3 horde spymasters. Steal their naval charts. Send 6 emissaries of the horde elsewhere (They get voided away). Then wipe out an entire zandalari ship.

The other two ships are safe for now. The alliance plans to launch a naval invasion eventually, and when that happens.... BOOOM!

Here is a screenshot of a burning Zandalari vessel. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...518_004346.jpg

Also, we get void elf dark iron and void elf night elf interactions. Shandris and umbric debating the usage of the void.
https://imgur.com/a/O5PswWH
The heroes are Shandris, Umbric, Falstad, Kelsey and Keeshan, with Halford Wyrmbane coordinating everything. I like that there are so many faces from so many different races. Shandris and Umbric get the most exposure, from what I've seen. And we get to also work with both wildhammer and dark iron dwarves!

This also completely debunks the void elves as a "dark race" that some people were expecting. Umbric is pretty much what you'd expect from a high elf, except that he uses the void. I'm still not sold on void elves, thought. They lack their own personality and feel like a cheap compromise.
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  #5505  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:55 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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still feels like defeats since horde get to res kul tiran warriors/war heroes like derek proudmoore as instantly "FOR THE DARK LADY DEATH TO HUMANS" forsaken while alliance blow up one ship and hang out with pop culture reference keeshan
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5506  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:59 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
still feels like defeats since horde get to res kul tiran warriors/war heroes like derek proudmoore as instantly "FOR THE DARK LADY DEATH TO HUMANS" forsaken while alliance blow up one ship and hang out with pop culture reference keeshan
Except for the Galliwyx part, none of the campaign feels like a defeat for me. Maybe it's not major victories, but there's a series of small victories.
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  #5507  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:15 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
I don't really see them going out of their way to kill kids, but I also don't imagine they would go out of their way to avoid it. Cutting off resources including food as a response to the wrath gate is a rather bold statement in that direction.
Yes, that's what I imagine them as too. But Cacofonix said they would 'wipe out' the orcs, which would seem to mean killing all of them, children included.

I've wondered what it'd be like if the Night Elves did take in some orphaned Orc children and raised them with their values(worship of Elune, respect for nature, etc.)
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  #5508  
Old 05-25-2018, 02:12 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Yes, that's what I imagine them as too. But Cacofonix said they would 'wipe out' the orcs, which would seem to mean killing all of them, children included.

I've wondered what it'd be like if the Night Elves did take in some orphaned Orc children and raised them with their values(worship of Elune, respect for nature, etc.)
There is something to what Cacofonix said though. The conflict between the Horde and the Night Elves, has, to my knowledge, just one incident each where prisoners were taken and where a civilian population was occupied. These examples, respectively, were when a troll kept captives for the purposes of torturing them to death, and when, during the Horde's short occupation of Astraanar, they rounded up the civilians and gassed them.

In the case of the Shatterspear, the Night Elves had no intention of ruling a hostile civilian population. Similarly in the Eastern part of Ashenvale during Cataclysm, they targetted and terrorized civilian workers. My point is that these are not two sides who can live together. The Night Elves probably wouldn't scour the world looking to murder every last remaining orc in the unlikely scenario that Blizzard has them comprehensively win, but I wouldn't expect a peaceful occupation, or tolerance for Orcs living in any territory they control.
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  #5509  
Old 05-25-2018, 02:49 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Like I said a few months ago:

Quote:
There's an important parallel between the Nightborne and the Void Elves people are overlooking: both shine with space-time abilities.

The Nightborne have plenty of timestop and teleportation arcane magic, and the Void Elves are very well known for their rifts (especially Alleria, who travels across the universe in her short story).

It would be a poor choice by the writers to overlook that and not use it as a narrative device.
And indeed they are using it as a narrative device.

The most recent beta build shows Umbric using void portals:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_225314.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_225417.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_225552.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_225610.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_230422.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_230553.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...418_231634.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...518_001413.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...518_001729.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...518_003640.jpg


And we also have Oculeth as the master of portals in Zuldazar:

https://worldofwarcraft.judgehype.co...9395559/04.jpg

As opposed to what some people said back in the day, Void Elves and Nightborne are there to stay and definitely aren't going to be forgotten in the story.
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  #5510  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:08 PM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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@Decide...dude we get it you are never going to be Ok with Void Elves, you have stated this nearly every single time they come up. Youre at the point of beating a dead horse
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  #5511  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:22 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
still feels like defeats since horde get to res kul tiran warriors/war heroes like derek proudmoore as instantly "FOR THE DARK LADY DEATH TO HUMANS" forsaken while alliance blow up one ship and hang out with pop culture reference keeshan
What the actual fuck are you talking about. The horde raises 3 npcs, 2 which survives, they found the body of 2 guys but they ress one but he later gets killed in a quest. by some kul tiran general you then get the mcguffing that just makes 3 lightning strikes destroy a big kul tiran vessel other than that there isnt that much.

But sure Horde Bias, even though the alliance quest line is VASTLY superior.

Now sure The maghar Scenario is Much better than the dark iron (purely because of the AU maghar and the Gorehowl transmog.
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  #5512  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:09 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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yeah but they went after derek's body and they are implying they will bring him back and like all the new forsaken they instantly forget their loyalties and immediately are all i am forsaken death to humans so its more defeats for humanity and kul tiras with proudmoores serving the forsaken but that's cool because horde are edgy i guess

not to mention the bronze dragons are teaching the nighborne time magic so they sided with the horde so they get even more cool stuff alliance still dont
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5513  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:39 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Derek never gets ressurected at worst they say he will stay a corpse but not forsaken for a while longer, they have plans to bring him back but they use the corpse as bargain to keep the kul tiran fleet at bay because proudmoores dont want Derek proudmoore as a forsaken they try to get the body back.
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  #5514  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:44 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Everything is an Alliance defeat for Quirnheim, and everything is a Void Elf / High Elf defeat for Deicide.

Gurzog is the most sensible person in the current discussion.

I love BFA.
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  #5515  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:46 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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I saw a really dumb fake leak about BfA's patch schedule a few weeks ago on MMO Champion that said we were going to K'aresh for 8.1. I've been thinking about it lately, so I'm going to do my own theorycrafted patch schedule.

8.1 - Kul Tiran and Zandalari allied races. Next chapter of the war campaign. Warfront: Tuarajo (tauren and dwarf style gear). ToV style faction-themed raid in Zuldazar (Alliance kills Rastakhan).

8.1.5 - Nazjatar raid

8.2 - Three new zones (each about isle of giants size) located in between Kul Tiras and Zandalar: Crestfall, Plunder Isle, and Zul'Dare. Next chapter of the war campaign. Warfront: Suramar (night elf and nightborne style gear). Plunder Isle five man.

8.2.5 - Faction themed raid: Kul Tiras armada vs the Golden Fleet (mirrored bosses and layout for Alliance and Horde), final boss is Talanji vs Katherine Proudmoore (Talanji kills Katherine).

8.3 - New zone: Ny'alotha. Final chapter of the war campaign. Vulpera and Junker Gnome allied races. Five man dungeon in Ny'alotha.

8.3.5 - The Sleeping City raid (end boss is N'Zoth). War campaign epilogue.
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  #5516  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:48 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeygiggles View Post
@Decide...dude we get it you are never going to be Ok with Void Elves, you have stated this nearly every single time they come up. Youre at the point of beating a dead horse
Never say never.

I do have little goodwill towards them, but that's different from not wanting them to be fleshed out.

I actually want them to become something interesting. Hoping so. It's just that'll be very critical of it until they have enough quality for my taste. There's still a lot of questions behind them that need answers ASAP.

(And my main is actually a void elf. My feelings towards them are more disappointement than rage.)
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  #5517  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:52 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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yeah it is a defeat because giving the horde alliance heroes for the kicks and giggles of I AM FORSAKEN REEEEEEEEEEEEE DEATH TO HUMANS instantly is fucking stupid
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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #5518  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:59 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I saw a really dumb fake leak about BfA's patch schedule a few weeks ago on MMO Champion that said we were going to K'aresh for 8.1. I've been thinking about it lately, so I'm going to do my own theorycrafted patch schedule.

8.1 - Kul Tiran and Zandalari allied races. Next chapter of the war campaign. Warfront: Tuarajo (tauren and dwarf style gear). ToV style faction-themed raid in Zuldazar (Alliance kills Rastakhan).

8.1.5 - Nazjatar raid

8.2 - Three new zones (each about isle of giants size) located in between Kul Tiras and Zandalar: Crestfall, Plunder Isle, and Zul'Dare. Next chapter of the war campaign. Warfront: Suramar (night elf and nightborne style gear). Plunder Isle five man.

8.2.5 - Faction themed raid: Kul Tiras armada vs the Golden Fleet (mirrored bosses and layout for Alliance and Horde), final boss is Talanji vs Katherine Proudmoore (Talanji kills Katherine).

8.3 - New zone: Ny'alotha. Final chapter of the war campaign. Vulpera and Junker Gnome allied races. Five man dungeon in Ny'alotha.

8.3.5 - The Sleeping City raid (end boss is N'Zoth). War campaign epilogue.
We're doing a prediction thread http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/....php?p=1619449
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  #5519  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:13 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Ah come on, why is fucking Keeshan in the Alliance quests? Seriously, screw that dumb and annoying pop culture reference.
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i literally just shit my pants with rage
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  #5520  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:27 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Everything is an Alliance defeat for Quirnheim, and everything is a Void Elf / High Elf defeat for Deicide.
Er, you know it's an objective fact that the void elf part ends with them failing their mission, right? That's not a matter of opinion, and that's what I meant about no defeats except for the Galliwyx part.

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Ah come on, why is fucking Keeshan in the Alliance quests? Seriously, screw that dumb and annoying pop culture reference.
I like Keeshan. Sure, a gimmicky character, but those types can easily graduate to serious character, and that seems to be the case with him.

-------------------

Hey, more broadcast text!

Dark Iron recruitment seems interesting.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284639/b...ragnaros-jaina
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  #5521  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:17 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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I don't entirely mind Keeshan either. So long as they tone down a bit of his Rambo references. If they can manage to improve on him, I'm all for it.

And anyway, I'm more excited that Shandris is getting in on things. My girl's finally relevant!
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  #5522  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:24 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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  #5523  
Old 05-26-2018, 01:18 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is online now

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Thrall is Moses and Spartacus thrown in a blender while Arthas is Moorcock's Elric and King Arthur. That doesn't stop them from being adored.
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  #5524  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:07 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Arthas
Fantastic character.

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  #5525  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:14 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is online now

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In the RTS games yeah. Not in WoW including books.
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