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  #51  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:37 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I can say though, he said some of the Silverpine Forest quests are non-cannon, specifically the ones dealing with Ambermill. Apparently the guy in charge of writing the Silverpine quests didn't know the Kirin Tor was neutral so he said "Kirin Tor is definitely neutral, what's going on in Silverpine is a big snafu on the developer's part".
So, er, huh? What about the attacks on Dalaran crater?

And isn't the troop surge brought on by raising the residents of Ambermill what gave the Forsaken enough of an advantage to push the front back to the Greymane Wall?

This fucks up a whole lot.
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  #52  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:38 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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I wonder why Blizzard is nailing down canon as of late. It used to just be the domain of fan arguments. First the RPG sourcebooks, and now a chunk of Silverpine questing...

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So, er, huh? What about the attacks on Dalaran crater?

And isn't the troop surge brought on by raising the residents of Ambermill what gave the Forsaken enough of an advantage to push the front back to the Greymane Wall?

This fucks up a whole lot.
I have to agree. How does a section of previously coherent story just not happen? It did raise questions, but the answer is that it never happened?

How do you cite a dinner anyway?
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  #53  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:42 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I wonder why Blizzard is nailing down canon as of late. It used to just be the domain of fan arguments. First the RPG sourcebooks, and now a chunk of Silverpine questing...

I have to agree. How does a section of previously coherent story just not happen? It did raise questions, but the answer is that it never happened?

How do you cite a dinner anyway?
Not only that, but it was also an exhibition of the nature of being raised by Val'kyr and the personality shift that occurs. Is that gone now too, or is it based entirely on "No, they're actually neutral?"

In fact, did he actually straight up retcon the quest? Or does this just mean that those Kirin Tor hadn't thrown their lot in with the Alliance but the Forsaken attacked them anyway?
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:44 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I wonder why Blizzard is nailing down canon as of late. It used to just be the domain of fan arguments. First the RPG sourcebooks, and now a chunk of Silverpine questing...



I have to agree. How does a section of previously coherent story just not happen? It did raise questions, but the answer is that it never happened?

How do you cite a dinner anyway?
It's certainly... wierd. It was coherent to take advantage of the mages of Amber Mill, but it didn't made sense their abrupt change of allegiance. I guess this means Sylvannas didn't use mind control at all, at least in Silverpine.
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  #55  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:44 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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I asked "So what does that mean, were they rogue Kirin Tor or something?"

Metzen: "No its a mistake, they're not supposed to be enemies of the Forsaken. The guy who wrote the quests just remembered that they were Alliance in vanilla."

We started talking about other stuff after that.
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  #56  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:46 PM
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Non-canon means that it never happened.

I guess the Forsaken never bothered with Dalaran... and Dalaran never bothered with the Forsaken.
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  #57  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:46 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I asked "So what does that mean, were they rogue Kirin Tor or something?"

Metzen: "No its a mistake, they're not supposed to be enemies of the Forsaken. The guy who wrote the quests just remembered that they were Alliance in vanilla."

We started talking about other stuff after that.
No mention of the ones in Hillsbrad?
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  #58  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:47 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I asked "So what does that mean, were they rogue Kirin Tor or something?"

Metzen: "No its a mistake, they're not supposed to be enemies of the Forsaken. The guy who wrote the quests just remembered that they were Alliance in vanilla."

We started talking about other stuff after that.
Oh God... This is just... How could they let it happen? Didn't they control what makes ingame? It would have been coherent if at least they were rogue Kirin Tor, or something.
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  #59  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:47 PM
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Oh God... This is just... How could they let it happen? Didn't they control what makes ingame? It would have been coherent if at least they were rogue Kirin Tor, or something.
It was a little cheap, though honest.
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  #60  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Non-canon means that it never happened.

I guess the Forsaken never bothered with Dalaran... and Dalaran never bothered with the Forsaken.
Then where did the troop surge that gave the Forsaken the advantage come from?

Urrgh, this makes no sense!
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  #61  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:51 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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It was a little cheap, though honest.
Yeah... It was cheap with Blizzard banning the "charm of the Valkyr", but now we have a whole questline made non-canon... What we should suppose? That the Kirin Tor still lives in Ambermill, while the whole Silverpaine is under control of the Forsaken?
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  #62  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:51 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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It's certainly... wierd. It was coherent to take advantage of the mages of Amber Mill, but it didn't made sense their abrupt change of allegiance. I guess this means Sylvannas didn't use mind control at all, at least in Silverpine.
I wouldn't go that far. This isn't the only case where she uses the Val'kyr, even in Silverpine. We still see the same radical personality shift in the refugees she raises.

This is really, really cheap.
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  #63  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:53 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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To fill in a plot hole, you need dirt. When getting dirt... you sometimes dig another hole.

But at least he gave an answer...?
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  #64  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:53 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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No mention of the ones in Hillsbrad?
You don't fight Kirin Tor in Hillsbrad. The Dalaran Crater quests are considered part of Silverpine Forest's quests by the game. This is our conversation paraphrased (trying to remember it as best I can).

Are the Kirin Tor still neutral? The horde fights them in Silverpine and it says they're Kirin Tor and that they're part of the alliance. Also Wolfheart mentions the alliance thinking their still part of the alliance but then they say their neutral.

Really, because they're neutral.

Yeah, in Ambermill and Dalaran Crater you get sent to kill them.

Are they old quests left over from vanilla maybe?

No, they involve dimension pockets and the Val'kyr.

It sounds like the guy in charge just changed around the vanilla quests without checking to make sure the Kirin Tor was still alliance or not. Its a big snafu on our part.

So were they rogue Kirin Tor or something?

No, the Kirin Tor are neutral, the forsaken fighting them is a mistake.

Thanks, between the forsaken quests and Wolfheart mentioning the alliance being unsure whether their neutral or not I thought maybe they went back to the alliance after the Nexus War.

The conversation then turned to some spoilers so I can't say anymore.
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  #65  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:55 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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I wouldn't go that far. This isn't the only case where she uses the Val'kyr, even in Silverpine. We still see the same radical personality shift in the refugees she raises.

This is really, really cheap.
That's why I say "at least in Silverpine". We could guess she use it in Andorhal, knowing that they were needed as canon fodder.

But in Silverpine, Ambermill's was that "lol case" of abrupt change in the middle of a battle.

Do you have more spoilers IGoD?
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  #66  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:55 PM
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If they are not what we saw, what are they? Neutral of course!

...That is not much to go on.
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  #67  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:57 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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The only reason I can say that is because its not a spoiler, just Metzen correcting something. I have three main ones, but I don't want to cause any more trouble for him.
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  #68  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:57 PM
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You should do it in the form of mad libs!

"After __(noun)__ joins the __(noun)__, it will be __(adjective)__ ."
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  #69  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:57 PM
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Any hints regarding Gallywix?
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  #70  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:59 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Any hints regarding Gallywix?
The little orphans outside Undercity are wearing his hat, those heathens!
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  #71  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:00 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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The only reason I can say that is because its not a spoiler, just Metzen correcting something. I have three main ones, but I don't want to cause any more trouble for him.
Well, thanks for that one bit... odd as it was.

It was something.
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  #72  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:00 PM
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Are they BIG spoilers? Juicy ones? Soft and tender, ripe for us to dig our metaphorical teeth on them?
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  #73  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:00 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Darn it! I didn't even think of Gallywix, that would've been a good thing to ask.
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  #74  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:01 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Uugh.

So this confirms that another iconic Alliance faction has removed itself from the Alliance completely.
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  #75  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:02 PM
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