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  #326  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:55 PM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah, those imperialistic Night Elves should get out of Kalimdor, where the Horde has been for millennia.



I didn't realize that "helping the Horde" was the deciding factor in whether or not someone is heroic or "redeemed."



Oh I get it, you're trolling.
I mostly meant the Barrens, but Night Elves are hostiles at the backdoor.

Well, Forsaken are helping against long-time enemy that already made multiple attempts at annihillating Horde races (Trolls vs Proudmoore etc)

I thought if Ally still tries to get Forsaken zones back after their antics in Barrens, it would move them from grey to black.
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  #327  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:59 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I mostly meant the Barrens, but Night Elves are hostiles at the backdoor.
How is the Alliance being in the Barrens any more imperialistic or aggressive than the Orcs being in the Barrens considering both factions got to Kalimdor at the exact same time, and the Orcs are aliens to boot?

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Well, Forsaken are helping against long-time enemy that already made multiple attempts at annihillating Horde races (Trolls vs Proudmoore etc)
The Alliance has never made "multiple attempts to annihilate Horde races" so your rationalization is moot.

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I thought if Ally still tries to get Forsaken zones back after their antics in Barrens, it would move them from grey to black.
That makes no fucking sense. Why is the Alliance fighting an aggressive genocidal enemy fucking "imperialistic" in the first goddamn place? Even if it were, how would that remove the Alliance's claim when the Forsaken being literal Nazis apparently doesn't do shit to theirs?

You're trolling and I'm falling for it.
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  #328  
Old 08-03-2013, 04:05 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
B) If the Alliance instead got a globetrotting raid where they retake Lordaeron and Ashenvale? Why do you think I'd whine about not being able to participate in an irrelevant Orgrimmar civil war in these circumstances?
Wait, wait, wait... So nothing short of Blizzard spending an assload more resources to make ANOTHER raid, completely Alliance-centric, which results in the removal of a faction's capital city AND their starting zone and delaying the patch even further would ever satisfy you?

I can't decide if you're being ridiculous or trolling. Either way it's laughable how out of touch with reality you are and I think you should get off your high horse.

Last edited by Gortrash; 08-03-2013 at 04:13 PM..
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  #329  
Old 08-03-2013, 04:16 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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I hope the Horde vs Alliance War ends after this expansion.

That does not mean certain people within the Alliance cannot war against other Horde factions just like we could see some minor war's within the Horde/Alliance itself. It would make it feel more realistic and i kind of feel like the Alliance should just turn into a Empire right now (if they are going with the entire High King business) which could finally give us some Alliance against Alliance scenario's where the Night Elves feel the Humans are abusing there agreed power.

I would like it if we saw more major settlements be created as a product of the war like say seeing Alliance's Andorhal.

In my honest opinion i do not want Lordaeron to ever be taken back over by the Alliance even though i want them to have more of a presence there.
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  #330  
Old 08-03-2013, 04:23 PM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Well, Orcs are stranded on a hostile planted after their dictator leaders led them to their ruin. Banded together with other weakened races, they are struggling against superior enemy; millenia old night elven state, not one but several human kingdo...

Ok, I'll stop. Bit tired and it seems I am late for the party anyways.

@SW covered in Sha. Meh, will be glad if it's vision-thing, otherwise its fucking stupid.
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  #331  
Old 08-04-2013, 12:30 PM
Niars Niars is offline

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I get where Fojar's coming from, oddly. There's no apparent benefit to the Alliance making the Horde stronger, which it will be once Garrosh is gone. Sure they'll have lost a ton of orcs and resources, but they'll regain the unity that made them mighty in the first place.

Still. Revenge for Theramore, and being the righteous good guys seems to be the schtick here.
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  #332  
Old 08-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Niars View Post
I get where Fojar's coming from, oddly. There's no apparent benefit to the Alliance making the Horde stronger, which it will be once Garrosh is gone. Sure they'll have lost a ton of orcs and resources, but they'll regain the unity that made them mighty in the first place.
Because if the Alliance doesn't stop Garrosh, their time would be best spent in mass-fabricating anal lubricants for when the Horde comes to rape the rest of the world.
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Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
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Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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  #333  
Old 08-04-2013, 12:55 PM
Niars Niars is offline

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What Horde? Garrosh would kill most of his allies, and even the empowered Orcs wouldn't stand a chance in a scheme for domination.

Still, as I said, 'Stop the Bad Guy' seems to be the main motive, clich or not.
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I've always been partial to orcs. Also liked the nelfs when they were fierce.

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  #334  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:07 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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What Horde? Garrosh would kill most of his allies, and even the empowered Orcs wouldn't stand a chance in a scheme for domination.

Still, as I said, 'Stop the Bad Guy' seems to be the main motive, clich or not.
Did you miss Blank Scroll?

Garrosh left unchecked can cause literal hell on Azeroth. Or maybe he can't, but are the citizens of the Alliance willing to watch him become a reborn old god and hope it works out somehow.
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  #335  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:08 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Blank Scroll exhibited what he would do if he could literally alter reality to suit his whims. He can't.

Also, wanna know who DIDN'T see the Blank Scroll vision? The Alliance. Some stupid, irrelevant Goblins saw it instead.
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  #336  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:14 PM
Niars Niars is offline

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'Sactly. Blank Scroll was a what if. He doesn't have an immortal army of story orcs though.
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Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler:
I've always been partial to orcs. Also liked the nelfs when they were fierce.

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  #337  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:36 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Niars View Post
'Sactly. Blank Scroll was a what if. He doesn't have an immortal army of story orcs though.
Well I suppose that was a bit subtle for most warcraft fans, someone tweet Micky and tell him that they have to write a short story explicitly about what happens when the reborn god Garrosharaj is set lose.
Oh and the fact that we see the rebels fail until bolstered by the Alliance and the PCs, but clearly the best of course of action was to do nothing.

PS. Also to make things perfectly clear, I am in the camp that finds the Alliance just leaving stupid. But coming to Orgrimmar to fight is decisively not stupid.
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  #338  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:41 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Well I suppose that was a bit subtle for most warcraft fans, someone tweet Micky and tell him that they have to write a short story explicitly about what happens when the reborn god Garrosharaj is set lose.
Oh and the fact that we see the rebels fail until bolstered by the Alliance and the PCs, but clearly the best of course of action was to do nothing.

PS. Also to make things perfectly clear, I am in the camp that finds the Alliance just leaving stupid. But coming to Orgrimmar to fight is decisively not stupid.
I agree with it. The problem is that coming to Orgrimmar to fight and then leave with nothing but a "Yeah, Garrosh is dead" is kind of stupid at this point. That's why SoO was a bad idea. If Blizzard really wished to make Garrosh a raid boss, the raid should have been in Pandaria, when both Alliance and Horde try to stop him while he seek to merge with the Heart of Y'shaarj.
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  #339  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I agree with it. The problem is that coming to Orgrimmar to fight and then leave with nothing but a "Yeah, Garrosh is dead" is kind of stupid at this point. That's why SoO was a bad idea. If Blizzard really wished to make Garrosh a raid boss, the raid should have been in Pandaria, when both Alliance and Horde try to stop him while he seek to merge with the Heart of Y'shaarj.
Nothing about the faction war plot has been good, overall. In fact, I daresay that no plot having anything to do with PvP, throughout the entirety of this game's lifetime, has been good.
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  #340  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:43 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Well I suppose that was a bit subtle for most warcraft fans, someone tweet Micky and tell him that they have to write a short story explicitly about what happens when the reborn god Garrosharaj is set lose.
Oh and the fact that we see the rebels fail until bolstered by the Alliance and the PCs, but clearly the best of course of action was to do nothing.

PS. Also to make things perfectly clear, I am in the camp that finds the Alliance just leaving stupid. But coming to Orgrimmar to fight is decisively not stupid.
I doubt they just leave Ogrimmar like we imagine... There has to be something to it.
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  #341  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:44 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Nothing about the faction war plot has been good, overall. In fact, I daresay that no plot having anything to do with PvP, throughout the entirety of this game's lifetime, has been good.
In a surprise move, Xil wishes for everything to go back to the way it was in vanilla where the Horde still acted like it was at war with the Alliance but the Alliance ignored it.
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  #342  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:46 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
In a surprise move, Xil wishes for everything to go back to the way it was in vanilla where the Horde still acted like it was at war with the Alliance but the Alliance ignored it.
No, that part of the plot was bad too and I would remove it.
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  #343  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:48 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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In a surprise move, Xil wishes for everything to go back to the way it was in vanilla where the Horde still acted like it was at war with the Alliance but the Alliance ignored it.
I want to be a hero and I don't want to fight the Alliance.
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  #344  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:48 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I want to be a hero and I don't want to fight the Alliance.
The one thing TBC was good for.
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  #345  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:52 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
No, that part of the plot was bad too and I would remove it.
I agree the existence of the Forsaken was a bad move but we're stuck with them now.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #346  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:54 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I agree the existence of the Forsaken was a bad move but we're stuck with them now.
I wouldn't have the Forsaken fighting the Alliance either.
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  #347  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:55 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I wouldn't have the Forsaken fighting the Alliance either.
It doesn't matter what they do. They're either alien or they're humans with skin conditions and I know for a fact that you would make them the latter if you could.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #348  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:58 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Korath View Post
If Blizzard really wished to make Garrosh a raid boss, the raid should have been in Pandaria, when both Alliance and Horde try to stop him while he seek to merge with the Heart of Y'shaarj.
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
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  #349  
Old 08-04-2013, 02:59 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
I agree at 100000000000000000% with you here.
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  #350  
Old 08-04-2013, 03:02 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
It was inevitable, given that it's a war that can never be decisively won.
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