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Old 02-22-2010, 10:14 AM
Rashid Rashid is offline

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Default Varok Saurfang before WoW

Now I know that Saurfang was placed in WoW initially so you had someone to give Nefarian's head to, but as we all know he has become quite a big deal these days both in terms of lore and fan popularity.

This thread is meant to be speculation on things not stated in the lore as to what his background could be, and to be more specific, what clan he was a part of.

Given that the orc population of Thrall's Horde at the time that Saurfang was introduced was made up entirely of Azerothian orcs, there are only a handful of possibilities based on what clans we know to have remained in Azeroth after Khadgar closed the portal. In no particular order:

Blackrock: What survived of this clan was either rounded up in internment camps or fled into the mountains following the Second war. There were a few Blackrock orcs that were liberated by Thrall, but most ended up following Jubei'thos or rallied under The Blackhand brothers.

Varok could have conceivably come from here. If he supported Doomhammer, it would explain his strong loyalty to Thrall today, but he would have had to be among the small number of Blackrocks which Thrall himself freed.

Black Tooth Grin: Rend and Maim's clan, which only came into existence after Blackhand's death. The survivors of the battle at Blackrock spire from this clan rallied under the Blackhand brothers to become assimilated into the Dark Horde and there was no record of them being rounded up by the Alliance.

Varok has no missing teeth as far as we know, and I don't think that any part of the Black Tooth Grin was inducted into Thrall's Horde.

Dragonmaw: This clan was hidden in Grim Batol following the second war, and its fate is mostly covered by "Knaak's Day of the Dragon." Those that survived the Red Flight's fury fled to the Wetlands and came under the leadership of Rend Blackhand via the clan's successor Nek'rosh. There is no record of their capture into internment camps.

Varok is unlikely to come from this clan for mostly the same reasons given for the Black Tooth Grin.

Bleeding Hollow: Considered a veteran and very old clan, it has participated in all the wars up to Thrall's rise and more than any other was reported to have been captured by the Alliance. Killrogg was a proud and strong warrior, and it's likely that his clan shared his characteristics.

Due to the number of Bleeding Hollows that were saved by Thrall, and his veteranship in all the wars, it's likely that Varok could have been from here.

Burning Blade: Another "clan" known for its ferocity and battle prowess, it's been said that the Blademasters are among the members of Thrall's Horde that once hailed from this clan. While there is a large part of this clan operating behind Thrall's back, those that are loyal to him would have an easy time shedding any previous loyalty as the clan never really had a chieftain.

While it's possible that Varok could have been among this group, as he was among the first to drink Mannoroth's blood, he seems a bit too level headed today to have belonged to the Burning Blade.

Warsong: Evaded capture in the internment camps and joined Thrall's Horde as a whole following the escape from the Eastern Kingdoms. They were notorious for being strong and brutal, just like their chieftain.

While Varok possesses the characteristics that many of the Warsong were known for, any connection to the clan would have likely come up given his current day relationship with Garrosh Hellscream. If they were from the same clan, their ideologies would probably match more closely, but the younger Hellscream is constantly at odds with Saurfang, and does not seem to show any of the respect that one might expect toward a clan mate.

Shattered Hand: Also rounded up into internment camps, this clan also made up a large part of Thrall's Horde. They now serve to train the Horde's assassins.

Given that the grunts of this clan ritualistically amputated their hands, as do its senior members, and considering that Varok's intact hands and his status as a veteran of all three wars, it is unlikely that he was a part of this clan.

Frostwolf: They avoided capture by the alliance by hiding in the mountains, and though they give their allegiance to Thrall's Horde, they haven't assimilated into it the way the other clans have.

They never drank the blood of Mannoroth under Durotan's order, which automatically disqualifies Varok from being a part of these ranks.


Based on the above, my guess would be that Varok Saurfang was part of the Bleeding Hollow. Any other clans that he could have been a part of that I missed? Any thoughts on what I presented?
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:21 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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We’ve discussed this a couple of times before and through analysis I came to the same conclusion.

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Well, we know Saurfang and Brox were veterens of all three wars with the humans/alliance. The Warsong wasn’t involved in the first war as they stayed on Draenor, so I think he probably isn’t part of that clan.

If he wasn’t from the Forstwolves or Warsong, and fought in the third war with the Horde, it probably means he was from one of the clans that was interned.

He could be Blackrock, but that clan seems to have a unique ethnic skin in WoW which Saurfang doesn’t. He could be Shattered Hand, but he has two hands and it would mean neither he nor his brother partook in the clan ritual.

So on my educated guess, I say the Saurfangs were from the Bleeding Hollow Clan. Alternatively, RotH mentions many smaller, less significant clans that were conscripted (voluntary or by force) into the Horde, so they could always be from some obscure shitty Clan.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:58 AM
Rashid Rashid is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
We’ve discussed this a couple of times before and through analysis I came to the same conclusion.
Ah, searching for "Saurfang" comes up with a multitude of threads, so I didn't see that one. Good to see we have the same thinking on this.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:01 PM
Nozdormu Nozdormu is offline

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My thought: I agree with you
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:08 PM
Monsund Monsund is offline

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Like everyone else, I'll go with Bleeding Hollow.

Speaking of the clan, anyone else want to see Jorin Deadeye make the clan a Horde power again?
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Rashid Rashid is offline

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I've been wanting Jorin Deadeye to do something since I first learned of his existence. The Bleeding Hollow has too much history among the orcs, I believe, to be just forgotten.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:57 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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I hope Saurfang does not lose his eye in some strange coincidence like all the other major members of the clan.
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:37 PM
Monsund Monsund is offline

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Jorin Deadeye has a mana bear and wears cloth, wonder if he's a mage or shaman?
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:09 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsund View Post
Jorin Deadeye has a mana bear and wears cloth, wonder if he's a mage or shaman?
By his gear my first though was warlock. As that is impossible, my second guess is a death-based shaman.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

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One clan's missing:

There is that clan that was destroyed in Outland, the Thunderlord clan. We don't know much of this clan, and any survivors probably joined other clans anyways, but there's a remote chance he was originated in this one. However, seing as he was one of the first to drink Manoroth's blood, I would guess he wasn't from blade's edge, in fact, I think he mentions being from Nagrand.

Anyways, he could not have been from the Warsong clan, he would not treat Grom's son like a spoiled brat if he was, he wouldn't dare.
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Old 02-22-2010, 06:16 PM
Rashid Rashid is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altrantis View Post
One clan's missing:

There is that clan that was destroyed in Outland, the Thunderlord clan. We don't know much of this clan, and any survivors probably joined other clans anyways, but there's a remote chance he was originated in this one. However, seing as he was one of the first to drink Manoroth's blood, I would guess he wasn't from blade's edge, in fact, I think he mentions being from Nagrand.

Anyways, he could not have been from the Warsong clan, he would not treat Grom's son like a spoiled brat if he was, he wouldn't dare.
I think we can discount the Thunderlord and Warsong clans since they did not participate in the First war, of which Varok was said to be a veteran of.

People within a clan can, and do, challenge others in the clan for leadership, so I don't think Grom's son is off limits if he's not leading the clan toward its best interests.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:42 AM
cenkiss cenkiss is offline

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I think he can be from any clan that drank demon blood willingly.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:28 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Let's check this again, going one by one with those that wouldn't make sense:

Didn't participate in the Second War:
Warsong clan, Bonechewer clan, Thunderlord clan, Shadowmoon clan, Shattered Hand clan, Laughing Skull clan, Frostwolf clan.

Evil and treacherous:
Stormreaver clan, Twilight's Hammer clan.

Insane:
Burning Blade clan, Black Tooth Grin, Redwalker clan.

Missing:
Bladewind clan, Lightning's Blade clan, Whiteclaw clan.

So, remaining, we have:

Blackrock clan: they had nice guys after all. Varok could have been inside an internment camp and be freed later. After all, there must have been Blackrocks between those Thrall captured.

Bleeding Hollow clan: he fits pretty well here.

Dragonmaw clan: we don't know enough to say how this clan worked. He could have been part of it and be captured before DotD.

Those are all my thoughts.
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:16 AM
Bordes Bordes is offline

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Hell,Varok fits Bleeding Hollow pretty well
This means Brox was Bleeding Hollow,too,right?

A little off-topic:
If that female orc from the Stormrage novel is Brox's niece,who was her father or mother?
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Rashid Rashid is offline

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Usually family lines fall within the same clan. I have yet to see any example otherwise, so Brox was probably Bleeding Hollow as well if Varok was.

The girl could be Brox's niece through a possible sister. Orc women are not mentioned explicitly very much in lore unless they were married to chieftains in the case of Draka and Rulkan.
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