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  #51  
Old 07-24-2010, 05:43 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Maybe Bolvar sent the Val'kyr to the Forsaken and is trying to trick them? Perhaps to get the Forsaken to his Scourge.
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  #52  
Old 07-24-2010, 05:45 AM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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Maybe Bolvar sent the Val'kyr to the Forsaken and is trying to trick them? Perhaps to get the Forsaken to his Scourge.
But then Sylvannas' rescue would not make sense since Bolvar needs her out of the way to seize control.
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Did they just say the BL is worse than the Old Gods?
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  #53  
Old 07-24-2010, 05:51 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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But then Sylvannas' rescue would not make sense since Bolvar needs her out of the way to seize control.
But it was the orc commander that ordered the resurrection, isn't it and not the Val'kyr out of good will?
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  #54  
Old 07-24-2010, 05:57 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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I don't think Blizzard are planning to kill her off... not any time soon at least The way I see it, her death and resurrection scene aims at just adding an interesting twist to her story and that's about it, I dunno, it doesn't necessarily have to foreshadow something. And as to why the Val'kyr die, I think Blizzard are finally trying to show us that bringing people from the dead comes with a heavy price, especially "powerful" individuals like Sylvanas. And gives some meaning to death and resurrection so here's to hope we don't see any more Kael/Anub'arak setbacks.
I hope you're right. Just seems like she's pissing A LLOOTT of people off.

But if this were one of the RTS games, I'd just take that to mean she was going to screw over a lot of people. (Unless you were the annoying jackass kinda character like Duke or Garithos. That usually means you'll get unceremoniously killed in some half-handed manner.)

But in WoW that seems to mean your sanity is slipping and 25 dedicated adventures are going to be in the near future and they'll lop off your head.

But so far, Cataclysm has had a few pretty amazing surprises and neat twists, so maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

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Maybe Bolvar sent the Val'kyr to the Forsaken and is trying to trick them? Perhaps to get the Forsaken to his Scourge.
I doubt it... I don't think we'll be hearing much from Bolvar or the Scourge in this expansion. And I really hope Blizzard's days of setting up plotlines a billion years in advance are over.
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  #55  
Old 07-24-2010, 06:35 AM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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But it was the orc commander that ordered the resurrection, isn't it and not the Val'kyr out of good will?
And if they were send by Bolvar they could just pretend it would be impossible.
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  #56  
Old 07-24-2010, 06:43 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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The Val'kyr like resurrecting the undead as seen by some of them being the spirit healers?
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  #57  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:30 AM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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There is something more interesting here that people are not noticing...to escape the plague, the Hillsbrad Refugees including Bartolo Ginesti, Henry Maleb and Phin Odelic, along with Lorna Crowley all become Worgen. Darius states that by becoming Worgen they escape the Plague and the turning. This all plays out on Fenris Isle. In other words, the whole Worgen identity debate got much more...interesting. Now we have non-Gilnean Worgen who have not(or did?) gotten the cure.

I don't remember where the SS was from, but I think it was in that Sylvanas thread. I know it was on MMO-Champ.
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  #58  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:35 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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There is something more interesting here that people are not noticing...to escape the plague, the Hillsbrad Refugees including Bartolo Ginesti, Henry Maleb and Phin Odelic, along with Lorna Crowley all become Worgen. Darius states that by becoming Worgen they escape the Plague and the turning. This all plays out on Fenris Isle. In other words, the whole Worgen identity debate got much more...interesting. Now we have non-Gilnean Worgen who have not(or did?) gotten the cure.

I don't remember where the SS was from, but I think it was in that Sylvanas thread. I know it was on MMO-Champ.
There's a thread about it in WoW discussion.
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  #59  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:38 AM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

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  #60  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:49 AM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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Interesting. Lord Godfrey is even more insane than any other Forsaken . . .
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  #61  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Awesome. Looks like Sylvanas had an epiphany.

And nice to see that even though she's a total bitch now, she still keeps her word, she released Lorna.
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  #62  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:54 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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I can't even fathom how much of an improvement the dialogue in Cataclysm is over Wrath of the Lich King. The characters are more complex, the ideas are wayyy less trite.

Just... wow. Like night and day.

And it doesn't sound like that was foreshadowing her death as much as I thought. More or less that seemed to actually be a nice moment for Sylvanas actually. Shows a slightly more tender side. Not obnoxiously so, or in a way that invalidates the evil she's doing. But she's not behaving like a ravenous sociopathic beast.

And it shows the personal connection between Sylvanas and the Valk'yr. Neat.
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  #63  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:11 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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I can't even fathom how much of an improvement the dialogue in Cataclysm is over Wrath of the Lich King. The characters are more complex, the ideas are wayyy less trite.

Just... wow. Like night and day.

And it doesn't sound like that was foreshadowing her death as much as I thought. More or less that seemed to actually be a nice moment for Sylvanas actually. Shows a slightly more tender side. Not obnoxiously so, or in a way that invalidates the evil she's doing. But she's not behaving like a ravenous sociopathic beast.

And it shows the personal connection between Sylvanas and the Valk'yr. Neat.
Totally agree with all your points, mate. The lore and character depth in Cataclysm are so much more "serious" than Wrath could have ever hoped to accomplish.

The best thing Blizzard have done for the franchise since WC3.
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  #64  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:15 AM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

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You say that like Warcraft 3 was a good thing.

Ohohohohoho only kidding.
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  #65  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:34 AM
Havard Havard is offline

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What I'd like to see is some more friction within the Forsaken ranks. It'll be a little too simple if nearly all of the Forsaken are 100% dedicated to Sylvanas now that Varimathras' cadre is gone.

I don't necessarily want another Putress, just perhaps a vocal dissident to make things interesting.
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  #66  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:36 AM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

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There's an ex-RAS guy hanging out in EPL who says he's abandoned the Forsaken because Sylvanas be crazy.
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  #67  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:39 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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What I'd like to see is some more friction within the Forsaken ranks. It'll be a little too simple if nearly all of the Forsaken are 100% dedicated to Sylvanas now that Varimathras' cadre is gone.

I don't necessarily want another Putress, just perhaps a vocal dissident to make things interesting.
Eh, we've seen what happens to people who aren't 100% dedicated to Sylvanas.

But meh, Sylvanas is getting results. Who's going to speak out against her when she's getting the results she's getting?
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  #68  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:54 AM
Havard Havard is offline

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Eh, we've seen what happens to people who aren't 100% dedicated to Sylvanas.

But meh, Sylvanas is getting results. Who's going to speak out against her when she's getting the results she's getting?
Perhaps this new Lilian Voss character. I agree Sylvanas is getting results, and that is a good point, but there could be a tension if it turns out Sylvanas is abusing these rumored "charm' powers. A potential conflict could arise from her methods, like, in effort to secure Lordaeron, she ends up consolidating power too much and abusing her own people. Voss could then be like the Sebastian Thor to her Goge Vandire.

Edited for clarity.

Last edited by Havard; 07-24-2010 at 09:05 AM..
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  #69  
Old 07-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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You say that like Warcraft 3 was a good thing.

Ohohohohoho only kidding.
Ooooooh, I see what you did there.
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  #70  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:04 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Does Crowley hand over Gilneas for his daughter? I hear that the 7th Legion that occupied Gilneas are gone.
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  #71  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:08 AM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

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I thought he only retreated from Silverpine.
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  #72  
Old 07-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

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That she might wind up dying.

Because otherwise I don't understand the point to this scene... it just seems so odd.

I mean if it happens again (say Thassarian kills her) it's almost definitely foreshadowing her death.

On the other hand, it really COULD be just to show her invulnerability. Like all of the homunculus in Fullmetal Alchemist. But then... why do the Valk'yr disappear when resurrecting her?
I don't think they'll kill her. The forsaken would end up like the BEs: with a borring personalityless character as their leader. At least for a couple expansions.

And I don't think it goes to show her invulnerability, but rather her vulnerability. She gets killed, and she just lucks out the means to resurrect her were aviable. I think this will later on impact on her personality and her actions, which is also a good possibility of why they made it happen.
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Eh, we've seen what happens to people who aren't 100% dedicated to Sylvanas.

But meh, Sylvanas is getting results. Who's going to speak out against her when she's getting the results she's getting?
I think a big deal of her actions (based on the comment she does when you inform her of Arthas's death) is that she believes scourge like tactics are stronger, and her old self was weaker for believing in... basically morality. She probably gave a lot of thought to why she lost in Quel'thalas and determined that she'd keep losing if she fought the good girl's way and the only way to win is by acting like the scourge. And the results are showing her reasoning is correct. Only problem is the lich king didn't have non undead allies.
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  #73  
Old 07-24-2010, 12:13 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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There's nothing that implies that, though. She just seems to be pretty ambitious now. She wasn't exactly a passive wall flower before. She always fought for whatever she thought was right with a pretty ruthless and determined attitude. Now she's just got a whole lot more assets at her disposal and a big chip on her shoulder over being enslaved by the scourge.

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And I don't think it goes to show her invulnerability, but rather her vulnerability. She gets killed, and she just lucks out the means to resurrect her were aviable. I think this will later on impact on her personality and her actions, which is also a good possibility of why they made it happen.
Well her later actions seem to involve enslaving people. So I guess it's to justify her totalitarianism in regards to newly raised Forsaken.
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  #74  
Old 07-24-2010, 12:18 PM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

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Well her later actions seem to involve enslaving people. So I guess it's to justify her totalitarianism in regards to newly raised Forsaken.
I guess she's scared now.
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  #75  
Old 07-24-2010, 01:57 PM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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Btw, Twofootfury, saying the Kor'kron Guard are the equivalent of 7th Legion is incorrect, the Kor'kron was originally an orc-only organisation, up until Northrend, it only had orcs and trolls within their ranks, there are taunka/tauren and a rare few blood elves(possible Forsaken, but they're VERY scarse). It isn't unlikely that most of the Forsaken elite are not in the Kor'kron(probably only the most Horde-minded), but rather in their own army within the Forsaken, these elites were part of the attackforce in Gilneas. Take for example the Dark Rangers, they've always been shown to be high-ranking members within the Forsaken. Yet they too are killed by worgen newbies. And don't start with 'well it was Genn and his army', they get killed way before that.(even his 'army' was an improvised one, consisting mostly out of militia)

The 7th Legion have been shown to have a lot more diversity in their ranks.
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