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  #76  
Old 07-24-2010, 03:31 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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This is indeed a very interesting turn of events though I would of preferred she stayed dead a bit longer to show how reliant the Forsaken really are on her. I just hope the Val'kyr rezzing Sylvanas doesn't lead to a "9 lives" sort of thing for her.
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  #77  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kasarax View Post
This is indeed a very interesting turn of events though I would of preferred she stayed dead a bit longer to show how reliant the Forsaken really are on her. I just hope the Val'kyr rezzing Sylvanas doesn't lead to a "9 lives" sort of thing for her.
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  #78  
Old 07-24-2010, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kasarax View Post
This is indeed a very interesting turn of events though I would of preferred she stayed dead a bit longer to show how reliant the Forsaken really are on her. I just hope the Val'kyr rezzing Sylvanas doesn't lead to a "9 lives" sort of thing for her.
She calls them "My dear Val'kyr" and they considered it their "sacred duty" to serve her so I'd guess that there's some level of mutal respect between the two, I doubt she'll just use them as extra lives.
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  #79  
Old 07-25-2010, 12:17 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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If they are part of the forsaken, she will probably treat them just as she treats the rest of the forsaken.
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  #80  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:52 AM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

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I don't like how it doesn't introduce more bosses like westfall did. In westfall they introduced about 3-4 bosses I think for the deadmines instance but only one boss for shadowfang keep.
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  #81  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:54 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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I don't like how it doesn't introduce more bosses like westfall did. In westfall they introduced about 3-4 bosses I think for the deadmines instance but only one boss for shadowfang keep.
They all "died" in the Deadmines. Have all the bosses "died" in Shadowfang Keep?
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  #82  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:02 AM
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I don't like how it doesn't introduce more bosses like westfall did. In westfall they introduced about 3-4 bosses I think for the deadmines instance but only one boss for shadowfang keep.
Silverpine isn't quite done yet.
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  #83  
Old 07-25-2010, 03:19 AM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
She calls them "My dear Val'kyr" and they considered it their "sacred duty" to serve her so I'd guess that there's some level of mutal respect between the two, I doubt she'll just use them as extra lives.
Sorry for the confusion but I didn't mean Sylvanas using them directly in that manner. I meant the writers making her die multiple times like Catwoman did in Batman Returns.
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  #84  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kasarax View Post
Sorry for the confusion but I didn't mean Sylvanas using them directly in that manner. I meant the writers making her die multiple times like Catwoman did in Batman Returns.
Yeah, that's a concern of mine as well.

Though I think the whole Val'kyr consuming themselves upon resurrecting her thing isn't as hard a limit as "She can die 9 times."

But on the other hand, I don't think they're going to spend all this time developing her character (and giving her a unique model) just to off her in the same expansion.

I'm kind of imagining that now that she can survive dying, they might wind up killing her a lot, though. That's what happened in FMA. Once we found out the homunculi couldn't die, they suddenly turned into paper-machete that would get their heads cut off and stabbed in the brain at the drop of a hat.

Somehow being invulnerable suddenly makes someone as fragile as freaking glass.
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  #85  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:24 AM
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Yeah, that's a concern of mine as well.

Though I think the whole Val'kyr consuming themselves upon resurrecting her thing isn't as hard a limit as "She can die 9 times."

But on the other hand, I don't think they're going to spend all this time developing her character (and giving her a unique model) just to off her in the same expansion.

I'm kind of imagining that now that she can survive dying, they might wind up killing her a lot, though. That's what happened in FMA. Once we found out the homunculi couldn't die, they suddenly turned into paper-machete that would get their heads cut off and stabbed in the brain at the drop of a hat.

Somehow being invulnerable suddenly makes someone as fragile as freaking glass.

I suppose the logic in it, is that someone who can not die (or rather stay dead) will be a lot more reckless and put themselves into dangerous situations more often than someone who thinks that if they die thats the end of them. Although it does cheapen the character if they die every 5 minutes... I hope that it is their way of introducing the fact that Sylvanas can be reserected by Valkyr into the storyline rather than a template for what they want to do with Sylvanas every few months.

Since I think they are setting up Sylvanas as a future antagonyst, it could be a simple way to give those that will fight her in a future expansion a sneak preview of the fiight... I can imagine Sylvanas with a room full of Valkyr and eacht time you kill her she is reborn and 3 of the Valkyr adds are killed.
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  #86  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:44 AM
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Since I think they are setting up Sylvanas as a future antagonyst, it could be a simple way to give those that will fight her in a future expansion a sneak preview of the fiight... I can imagine Sylvanas with a room full of Valkyr and eacht time you kill her she is reborn and 3 of the Valkyr adds are killed.
It'd be interesting if that's how her battle worked when you raid the Undercity as Alliance players.

Quite frankly I'm tired of the stupid neutral bad guys... completely ruined Kael by doing that.
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  #87  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:02 AM
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Ugh....it will only end up with people sayin HURRR DURRR merely a setback! I do hope they won't just make her die a lot to get rid of the val'kyr.
Say, do we have any idea how many val'kyr joined the Forsaken? are all of the Scourge val'kyr now aligned with the Forsaken, or just a part of them? Considering the vast amount of them in that Storm Peaks village and the ones in Icecrown(that you see attacking Argent Tournament).
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  #88  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:23 AM
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Ugh....it will only end up with people sayin HURRR DURRR merely a setback! I do hope they won't just make her die a lot to get rid of the val'kyr.
Say, do we have any idea how many val'kyr joined the Forsaken? are all of the Scourge val'kyr now aligned with the Forsaken, or just a part of them? Considering the vast amount of them in that Storm Peaks village and the ones in Icecrown(that you see attacking Argent Tournament).
I imagine it's enough that she's not going to be running out any time soon. But not so many that she can be careless with them.
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  #89  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:26 AM
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Sorry for the confusion but I didn't mean Sylvanas using them directly in that manner. I meant the writers making her die multiple times like Catwoman did in Batman Returns.
Sylvanas becoming the Jean Grey of Warcraft?

*shudder*
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  #90  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:37 AM
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If we had numbers it would made things quite interesting, but I don't think Blizzard can be that sure of how long they want the forsaken to have access to these game changers.
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  #91  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:49 AM
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"fix her"

lol xDDD epic
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  #92  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:05 PM
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I now think the reason to be of this scene is to compare Sylvanas with Arthas.

First, she gives Gilneans and Crowley a choise, which she didn't get as she says, this is to show her as, tho she's hard core, she's also much better than the lich king.

Then, she dies, and she says she saw only darkness, just like Arthas.

But she was given a new chance, the val'kyr. She now really, really likes them, apparently she wasn't sure about the val'kyr either, but now she is.


Oh, BTW, they could rezz any of the other characters, just that, as Sylvanas is already undead, she's fixed rather than... transformed.
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  #93  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:23 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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No one can be crueller than the Lich King. But seriously, blackmailing Crowley by holding his daughter's life as hostage is the extent of her mercy? Bah! Sure she spared Lorna but how many other daughters and sons have she raised and enslaved forcing to fight fathers and mothers and vice versa. One pet the dog moment doesn't wipe away all that she's done. Hell even Arthas spared a few lives when he let Illidian and his cronies retreat back to Outland. I say she's about the same as Arthas before he became the Lich King and tore out his own heart.
I wonder how these charmed former Alliance Forsaken would react if they somehow managed to squirm away from her control. Would they react like Godfrey did? Would they turn on the Horde for turning them into these monstrosities to fuel their war? I hope so. What goes around comes around.
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  #94  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:11 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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If we had numbers it would made things quite interesting, but I don't think Blizzard can be that sure of how long they want the forsaken to have access to these game changers.
supposing they do get rid of the val'kyr and/or Sylvie how would the Forsakens numbers stay stable?

I vote frankenstein esque reanimation of corpses but not -souls-.
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  #95  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:15 PM
Whowho Whowho is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
supposing they do get rid of the val'kyr and/or Sylvie how would the Forsakens numbers stay stable?

I vote frankenstein esque reanimation of corpses but not -souls-.
Lich King Bolvar could make theoretically produce more Forsaken I guess. As long as there's a scourge there's a great big potential forsaken factory about.

Or possibly in the end they settle on only resurrecting people that were already forsaken to be sure their population don't decline into nothing, and still keep their moral integrity.
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  #96  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:19 PM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
No one can be crueller than the Lich King. But seriously, blackmailing Crowley by holding his daughter's life as hostage is the extent of her mercy? Bah! Sure she spared Lorna but how many other daughters and sons have she raised and enslaved forcing to fight fathers and mothers and vice versa. One pet the dog moment doesn't wipe away all that she's done. Hell even Arthas spared a few lives when he let Illidian and his cronies retreat back to Outland. I say she's about the same as Arthas before he became the Lich King and tore out his own heart.
I wonder how these charmed former Alliance Forsaken would react if they somehow managed to squirm away from her control. Would they react like Godfrey did? Would they turn on the Horde for turning them into these monstrosities to fuel their war? I hope so. What goes around comes around.
I'm pretty sure the charming of the risen forsaken starts after this event.

Plus, in Sylvanas' terms to him, it was pretty evident that she didn't do it just because. She would cerainly not stop doing it, but she prefered they surrender. The blackmailing was mostly so she wouldn't have to kill all the other Gilneans. She seemed pretty confident (And Crowley seemed to agree) in that she had basically won and it was a matter of time and gilnean blood until the forsaken won.

We know the gilneans would have fought to the last, and the fact Sylvanas captured Lorna to make this deal goes to show she knew this, but she didn't want to have them all killed, even against their will. As she herself fought to her last breath, she knows what it is to be in that situation, and gave them a way out from this lose-lose situation now that she is the one in the position Arthas had in Quel'thalas.

Sylvanas fights like Arthas, but is careful not to comit the same sins, as basically all of her scourge stuff reaches just the border of morality, but never falling into real evil (since all of her actions are defendable).

Now, on annother topic sighly related, I find disturbing the similarities of humans drinking Crowley's blood and orcs drinking manoroth's blood.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:25 PM
Whowho Whowho is offline

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Now, on annother topic sighly related, I find disturbing the similarities of humans drinking Crowley's blood and orcs drinking manoroth's blood.
Absolutely! When I saw that I thought it was as morally grey as the Forsaken giving the curse of undead to fallen people. I was surprised how far both were going to win this conflict.

Made me think that everything that happened happened because each side was pushing the other side harder. Crowley had to curse the remaining humans to save them from undeath, and Sylvanis had to recruit Godfrey regain the upper hand and slaughter the mages to get her numbers to match Crowley's increased army.
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  #98  
Old 07-25-2010, 02:28 PM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

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Absolutely! When I saw that I thought it was as morally grey as the Forsaken giving the curse of undead to fallen people. I was surprised how far both were going to win this conflict.

Made me think that everything that happened happened because each side was pushing the other side harder. Crowley had to curse the remaining humans to save them from undeath, and Sylvanis had to recruit Godfrey regain the upper hand and slaughter the mages to get her numbers to match Crowley's increased army.
This is what happens when unstopable force (Sylvanas) meets unmovable object (Crowley). Basically, things get ugly. This is like WC 1 and 2 orcs vs the scourge, just a bit less evil on both sides.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:35 PM
Whowho Whowho is offline

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I got a really odd Vietnam vibe from watching Jessy Cox's videos (By the way, it's REALLY odd when he voices everyone, it like the world is populated by characters from the Oxhorn Machinimas) The horde getting drunk in conflict and embarrassing themselves, going into enemy territory and getting there asses shamelessly handed back to them, horrible un-moral acts committed by the invaders and the defenders completely embarrassing the invaders with the tactic of pretending to be bears

But maybe any messy invasion gives off Vietnam vibes these days.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:40 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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I'm pretty sure the charming of the risen forsaken starts after this event.

Plus, in Sylvanas' terms to him, it was pretty evident that she didn't do it just because. She would cerainly not stop doing it, but she prefered they surrender. The blackmailing was mostly so she wouldn't have to kill all the other Gilneans. She seemed pretty confident (And Crowley seemed to agree) in that she had basically won and it was a matter of time and gilnean blood until the forsaken won.

We know the gilneans would have fought to the last, and the fact Sylvanas captured Lorna to make this deal goes to show she knew this, but she didn't want to have them all killed, even against their will. As she herself fought to her last breath, she knows what it is to be in that situation, and gave them a way out from this lose-lose situation now that she is the one in the position Arthas had in Quel'thalas.

Sylvanas fights like Arthas, but is careful not to comit the same sins, as basically all of her scourge stuff reaches just the border of morality, but never falling into real evil (since all of her actions are defendable).

Now, on annother topic sighly related, I find disturbing the similarities of humans drinking Crowley's blood and orcs drinking manoroth's blood.
The Forsaken are automatically charmed when they are raised. When you raise the Hillsbrad refugees, the Valkyr say "Bow to your new master" and even the Ambermill mages who were desperate to not turn into Forsaken became her Forsaken mages. Pretty sure the charming was happening way before this event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h52q...os=5bzQMWKvWG4
She wasn't just threatening to kill Lorna, she threatened to raise her in undeath as her servant forever. It wasn't a matter of Gilneas losing. Crowley even says it's not over yet and that he had more tricks up his sleeves. But Sylvannas forced his hand. What father would let his daughter spend an eternity as Sylvannas' puppet?
What threshold has has Sylvannas not cross that Arthas hadn't?
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