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Old 07-22-2010, 07:17 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Default Sylvanas Windrunner's speech...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDTvRaIuoz4

Nice speech but she's still off her knockers.
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:23 PM
Jigsaw Complex Jigsaw Complex is offline

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Originally Posted by WyrmKing View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDTvRaIuoz4

Nice speech but she's still off her knockers.
Must...resist...boob joke....

Seriously though, i'm about to be flagged as an Alliance fanboy, but just because the dead come back to life doesn't mean they get rights to what they had in life. Sure, if you go missing, are declared dead, and come back, that's fine. but being dead, and then risen as a zombie doesn't count.
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The thought of Genn and them entering Darnassus amuses me.

'Yea see that purple light? Just walk into that to enter the city. Just trust me you'll be fine!'.

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Old 07-22-2010, 07:26 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw Complex View Post
Must...resist...boob joke....

Seriously though, i'm about to be flagged as an Alliance fanboy, but just because the dead come back to life doesn't mean they get rights to what they had in life. Sure, if you go missing, are declared dead, and come back, that's fine. but being dead, and then risen as a zombie doesn't count.
I am an Alliance player and I dislike the Forsaken faction but I don't see how they don't count. They're still not dead, so all bets are off.

Oh and is it not knockers? I guess I should've just said, "She's still an insane bitch" lol.
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:26 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I love Sylvanas charactersbut her voice is the worst in the game. Her old voice was so awesome. Why did they have to change? ;(
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:36 PM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

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Hahahahaha.

"Lordaeron is ours by right! All those survivors of Lordaeron in the Alliance don't count. Ignore that I am an elf and not even from Lordaeron."
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:39 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Hahahahaha.

"Lordaeron is ours by right! All those survivors of Lordaeron in the Alliance don't count. Ignore that I am an elf and not even from Lordaeron."
Hehe, she's kinda like Hitler (no, not because of the Nazi thing) because he was from Austria and started acting like the most German of the Germans.
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:42 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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Hahahahaha.

"Lordaeron is ours by right! All those survivors of Lordaeron in the Alliance don't count. Ignore that I am an elf and not even from Lordaeron."
Seriously I have always thought to myself if she is really all about the people of Lordaeron and getting everything returned to them, shouldn't she return the power of government back to the Lordaeron Forsaken instead of keeping it for herself? I'm sure they would still ask her for help and the Blood Elves would probably let her return to Silvermoon and live there.
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:43 PM
Jigsaw Complex Jigsaw Complex is offline

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Originally Posted by WyrmKing View Post
I am an Alliance player and I dislike the Forsaken faction but I don't see how they don't count. They're still not dead, so all bets are off.

Oh and is it not knockers? I guess I should've just said, "She's still an insane bitch" lol.
1: They're dead, they just aren't dead dead.

2: No, maybe it's because it's out of usage, but knockers is a term for breasts. "She had some massive knockers!"
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
The thought of Genn and them entering Darnassus amuses me.

'Yea see that purple light? Just walk into that to enter the city. Just trust me you'll be fine!'.

We are Sex Bob-Omb! And we're here to make you think about death and get sad and stuff!

"By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." - George Carlin
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:44 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw Complex View Post
1: They're dead, they just aren't dead dead.
No they're UNdead and "un" means they're not dead.

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2: No, maybe it's because it's out of usage, but knockers is a term for breasts. "She had some massive knockers!"
Oh, well... I'm not into boobies... well carry on.
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  #10  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:50 PM
Jigsaw Complex Jigsaw Complex is offline

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Originally Posted by WyrmKing View Post
No they're UNdead and "un" means they're not dead.



Oh, well... I'm not into boobies... well carry on.
I would argue the difference between living, dead, and undead, but that's not really the point and it was done like 3 months ago.

If the problem isn't because they're dead, it can be several other things; just depends on your point of view. I just plain don't like the Forsaken because of the whole genocide plan things. I think they're good for the story though, lol.
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
The thought of Genn and them entering Darnassus amuses me.

'Yea see that purple light? Just walk into that to enter the city. Just trust me you'll be fine!'.

We are Sex Bob-Omb! And we're here to make you think about death and get sad and stuff!

"By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." - George Carlin
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  #11  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by WyrmKing View Post
Hehe, she's kinda like Hitler (no, not because of the Nazi thing) because he was from Austria and started acting like the most German of the Germans.
You must understand that Austrians are in fact Germans. Germany as it is known today was only unified in 1871. Prior to that, it was made up of many small kingdoms such as Bavaria, Saxony, Westphalia and so forth. They were all united by the fact they spoke German. Originally, Austria was planned to be included in the combined German state, but it was not to be. The dual-monarchy of Austria-Hungary would not have it. So, the only thing that makes "Germans" "German" is that they speak German. Austrians are covered under this definition.

On the issue of HER....the speech, while passionate and obviously attention-getting doesn't make me think any better of her. There are plenty of living Lordaeron folk in the Alliance that would LOVE to return home. Not only that, but she doesn't even take into account that she herself is not from Lordaeron. Just sounds like political rhetoric to me.
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:52 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Kasarax View Post
Seriously I have always thought to myself if she is really all about the people of Lordaeron and getting everything returned to them, shouldn't she return the power of government back to the Lordaeron Forsaken instead of keeping it for herself? I'm sure they would still ask her for help and the Blood Elves would probably let her return to Silvermoon and live there.
The forsaken love Sylvanas; if the Forsaken were a democracy she would be elected leader no contest.

While I have no doubt that Sylvanas and the forsaken would remain in Lordaeron even if in life they had been citizens of another land, her claim is still valid nonetheless
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:53 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw Complex View Post
If the problem isn't because they're dead, it can be several other things; just depends on your point of view. I just plain don't like the Forsaken because of the whole genocide plan things. I think they're good for the story though, lol.
I don't like them either lol. They're so emo always complaining about how it's awful to be undead yet they revel in it lol.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:00 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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You must understand that Austrians are in fact Germans. Germany as it is known today was only unified in 1871. Prior to that, it was made up of many small kingdoms such as Bavaria, Saxony, Westphalia and so forth. They were all united by the fact they spoke German. Originally, Austria was planned to be included in the combined German state, but it was not to be. The dual-monarchy of Austria-Hungary would not have it. So, the only thing that makes "Germans" "German" is that they speak German. Austrians are covered under this definition.
I know that. But my analogy still applies, Austria was a separate nation from Germany at the time Hitler rose to power.

So in this case, Sylvanas was a Thalassian citizen ruling over Lordaeronian people. (what is the demonym for people of Lordaeron anyway?)

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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
The forsaken love Sylvanas; if the Forsaken were a democracy she would be elected leader no contest.
Yeah they love her... for now... but I'm betting some Forsaken are going to be appalled at her acting like the Lich King and using mind control and new undead recruits.

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While I have no doubt that Sylvanas and the forsaken would remain in Lordaeron even if in life they had been citizens of another land, her claim is still valid nonetheless
Actually if they were citizens of other kingdoms then their claim wouldn't be valid. Right now, the only claims the Forsaken nation have in that land is that they were citizens of Lordaeron.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:01 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
The forsaken love Sylvanas; if the Forsaken were a democracy she would be elected leader no contest.

While I have no doubt that Sylvanas and the forsaken would remain in Lordaeron even if in life they had been citizens of another land, her claim is still valid nonetheless
Would she win the election? I don't disagree with you there, most likely it would be a landslide. There should still be an election nonetheless if she is really looking to serve her Forsaken people. When you mean her claim, do you mean individually as Sylvanas or the Forsaken People?
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:06 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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Yeah, as an individual she has no claim to Lordaeron. Her only claim to it is that she was chosen as leader by citizens of Lordaeron.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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I know that. But my analogy still applies, Austria was a separate nation from Germany at the time Hitler rose to power.

So in this case, Sylvanas was a Thalassian citizen ruling over Lordaeronian people. (what is the demonym for people of Lordaeron anyway?)


Actually if they were citizens of other kingdoms then their claim wouldn't be valid. Right now, the only claims the Forsaken nation have in that land is that they were citizens of Lordaeron.

No, it doesn't. There were all the same people. Germanic people. Hitler never really referred to Germany, but rather to all Germanic peoples in the world. Sylvanas is a different race AND from a completely unrelated ethnicity, not to mention nationality. Whereas Hitler was of the same race and ethnicity, but not nationality.

I've always just said "Lordaeron folk". I don't think there is an official demonym.

On that same note, the Forsaken could be considered of a different "kingdom" since their current one is not remotely similar to the one of the past. And refugees in exile to count as claimants in my opinion. Though, the only true claimant can be Calia Menethil, wherever she may be.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:28 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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No, it doesn't. There were all the same people. Germanic people. Hitler never really referred to Germany, but rather to all Germanic peoples in the world. Sylvanas is a different race AND from a completely unrelated ethnicity, not to mention nationality. Whereas Hitler was of the same race and ethnicity, but not nationality.
We're all humans in the real world. In WoW most of the different nations are divided by races (species really).

It's still valid, Thalassian citizen ruling over Lordaeron citizens.

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I've always just said "Lordaeron folk". I don't think there is an official demonym.
Someone need to ask this at the next Ask-A-Dev round. Only Gilneans have a demonym.

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On that same note, the Forsaken could be considered of a different "kingdom" since their current one is not remotely similar to the one of the past. And refugees in exile to count as claimants in my opinion. Though, the only true claimant can be Calia Menethil, wherever she may be.
Eh, people have just as much right to the land as the monarchs. Monarchs have been replaced in the past and the power laid in the hands of the people after.

But yeah their nation is not the same as the nation that came before it because of the different government and organization structure, etc. but the lands are the same.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:32 PM
KND KND is offline

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So she is a little maniac, whats the problem?
Indeed she has no right to be a Queen, still the people of Lordaeron, well the unpeople, like theirs Queen Sylvanas. So I see no problem in she fighting for her people even if shes not from Lordaeron. In the end they are all Forsaken
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:45 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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So she is a little maniac, whats the problem?
Indeed she has no right to be a Queen, still the people of Lordaeron, well the unpeople, like theirs Queen Sylvanas. So I see no problem in she fighting for her people even if shes not from Lordaeron. In the end they are all Forsaken
There's nothing wrong with her fighting for the Forsaken at all or her being in Lordaeron but she shouldn't be the leader of the Forsaken as a former Thalassian citizen without an election. Folks keep mentioning that they are all just Forsaken in the end but let us look at the technical definition of what the Forsaken are. They are Undead who broke away from the Lich King's will and that is it. So if an Undead Quillboar was to break away from the Lich King and defeat Sylvanas in battle, the Quillboar has a claim?
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:45 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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We're all humans in the real world. In WoW most of the different nations are divided by races (species really).

It's still valid, Thalassian citizen ruling over Lordaeron citizens.



Someone need to ask this at the next Ask-A-Dev round. Only Gilneans have a demonym.



Eh, people have just as much right to the land as the monarchs. Monarchs have been replaced in the past and the power laid in the hands of the people after.

But yeah their nation is not the same as the nation that came before it because of the different government and organization structure, etc. but the lands are the same.
We have races as humans, they are just not as dramatic. To avoid anything that might be construed as racist, I will stop arguing this.

They have a claim to the land, maybe. But not to the throne of Lordaeron or anything that was owned surviving Lordaeron folk. Sylvanas claiming to be a continuation, more or less, of Lordaeron is ridiculous.

One could argue that they STOLE the land from the living Lordaeron folk. For example, when anyone dies...they lose their property...because they are dead. These people died, and more than likely were not instantly risen. Hence they no longer have a claim to that land. They lost that claim when they decided to die.

Technicalities, I know...but I still believe that the Forsaken are not even close to their former selves in temperament or anything else and of course have no claim to land that they stole for use in their evil schemes. They are no longer citizens of Lordaeron, but evil, malicious, insidious beings.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:45 PM
Twofootfury Twofootfury is offline

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The problem is that she goes on about Lordaeron rightfully being theirs, when the Forsaken go around killing surviving Lordaeron citizens for funsies.

Both share a right to Lordaeron, but one group are a bunch of assholes.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:46 PM
Ornhelm Ornhelm is offline

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1 point remains:

Forsaken sucker-punched two nations that did absolutely nothing. Now they're bitching about getting punched back.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:52 PM
WyrmKing WyrmKing is offline

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We have races as humans, they are just not as dramatic. To avoid anything that might be construed as racist, I will stop arguing this.
Well it wasn't meant to incite some kind of racial argument lol. Just saying it was a citizen of one country ruling over citizens of another country regardless of ethnic background.

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They have a claim to the land, maybe. But not to the throne of Lordaeron or anything that was owned surviving Lordaeron folk. Sylvanas claiming to be a continuation, more or less, of Lordaeron is ridiculous.
The throne is just an office, it's not the land anyway. They abolished it when they placed a new government.

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One could argue that they STOLE the land from the living Lordaeron folk. For example, when anyone dies...they lose their property...because they are dead. These people died, and more than likely were not instantly risen. Hence they no longer have a claim to that land. They lost that claim when they decided to die.
You make it sound like they committed suicide lol. Yes they died and their properties should pass on to the living but they didn't stay dead so I think all bets are off.

Boy, American lawyers would have a field day about that stuff lol. Can you imagine if the two Barov brothers decided to hire lawyers and litigate instead of sending assassins against each other? LOL.

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Technicalities, I know...but I still believe that the Forsaken are not even close to their former selves in temperament or anything else and of course have no claim to land that they stole for use in their evil schemes. They are no longer citizens of Lordaeron, but evil, malicious, insidious beings.
I don't believe they're not themselves. They have post traumatic stress disorders, that's why the race as a whole is batshit crazy.

I dunno why Blizzard thought it would be a good idea to have a nation composed entirely of people with PSTD but they definitely add something interesting to the story.
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2010, 09:31 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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1 point remains:

Forsaken sucker-punched two nations that did absolutely nothing. Now they're bitching about getting punched back.
Whaa...? Which 2?

They took out Garithos but who else?

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I don't like them either lol. They're so emo always complaining about how it's awful to be undead yet they revel in it lol.
They USED to be emo, now they just want to rule.

An NPC in Tirisfal basically has a speech about this too. About how cowardly and weak they used to be, and about how now they're going to MAKE the Horde and Alliance respect them.

Pretty refreshing considering how much Blizzard's undercut the Night Elves and Forsaken for so long. Considering how central they were to WC3. (Well, okay, the SCOURGE were, but the Forsaken make a nice expy/replacement.)

Sylvanas to me has become SOOOO much more interesting in Cataclysm. Is she in the moral right? No, but I don't care. Blizzard has always made these awesome villainous protagonists who never get their comeuppance and I appreciate that about their storytelling.

I never really cared about Sylvanas before (minor antagonist in RoC, totally tacked on and out of place in TFT, practically non-existent in WoW and TBC weird and out of character in WOTLK), but her perspective and her motives here intrigue me. I don't think it's political rhetoric, and I think you guys are reading a bit too much into it about her being a High Elf, because really, her people don't seem to mind her, the seem to worship her really.

She kind of reminds me of Balalaika from Black Lagoon, tough and ruthless with an inclination towards dominance, but cares about her people. (Whether they be living Blood Elves or her Undead Forsaken followers.) And she'll fuck you over if you try to mess with them. (In this case by building farms right next to their capital city!! The nerve.)

So yeah, all around, she's evil. But she's not Kil'jaeden or Gul'dan evil. She's not as maliciously vindictive, she's just ruthless and controlling and willing to do whatever it takes to achieve her somewhat questionable goals with even more questionable methods.

Now please, please, please Blizzard. Do the same thing with Tyrande. Make her bad-ass (not evil) again and I might even forgive you for the train wreck that was WOTLK's finale.

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They are no longer citizens of Lordaeron, but evil, malicious, insidious beings.
Can't they be both? And I don't see how they're malicious. They're not wiping out Alliance citizens for kicks. They're doing it because they see them as intruders and as their enemies.

Are they right? Who cares. Point is, they're not just doing it because they can.
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