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  #3026  
Old 01-17-2018, 08:26 AM
Veryyawn Veryyawn is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
So one failure is enough to make him the worst spy in the world? Harsh.
When the royal spy agency creates plans to get their own royals murdered, they don't get medals for being the best.

Then SI:7 couldn't even save itself, it had to be rescued by it's enemies (in the case of Forsaken Rogue players, it's greatest enemies), who saved it because it was so dangerously incompetent they had to save the world from SI:7.
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  #3027  
Old 01-17-2018, 09:05 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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  #3028  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:21 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Apparently pandaren who use the orb of deception toy can now be transformed into allied races.
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  #3029  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:29 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Besides leveling xp for some reason being increased it looks like Blizzard messed the scaling up and heroic dungeons have normal dungeon hp/damage and vice versa. This stuff was also reported during the PTR but I guess Blizzard was in too much of a rush to make a deadline to release their time gated patch so they could have higher quarter earnings/compete with FF14's patch. If pre-orders do come the 30th and the Allied Races are released in the same unfinished state they were on the PTR I'm going to expect nothing but bad things of BFA.

Last edited by Leviathon; 01-17-2018 at 10:32 AM..
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  #3030  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:38 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Besides leveling xp for some reason being increased it looks like Blizzard messed the scaling up and heroic dungeons have normal dungeon hp/damage and vice versa. This stuff was also reported during the PTR but I guess Blizzard was in too much of a rush to make a deadline to release their time gated patch so they could have higher quarter earnings/compete with FF14's patch. If pre-orders do come the 30th and the Allied Races are released in the same unfinished state they were on the PTR I'm going to expect nothing but bad things of BFA.
I'm betting there'll be hotfixes this week. It was the same thing after the stat squish in WoD. Two days after the prepatch, they changed the whole scaling of old content mobs.

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Apparently pandaren who use the orb of deception toy can now be transformed into allied races.
Weird. It's random, or do Alliance Pandaren turn into one fixed race, and Horde Pandaren turn into another?
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  #3031  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:48 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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I'm betting there'll be hotfixes this week. It was the same thing after the stat squish in WoD. Two days after the prepatch, they changed the whole scaling of old content mobs.


Weird. It's random, or do Alliance Pandaren turn into one fixed race, and Horde Pandaren turn into another?
Only one I've seen is a nightborne, not sure which faction.
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  #3032  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:51 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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The Horde one ends up being better, though, because it shows more of the leaders. The interaction between Saurfang and Baine was very nice to see.
It really was, and I have to admit it was a breath of fresh air after how Horde leaders have been getting shafted for quite some time. Like Baine's role in Highmountain being cut. Or Vol'jin just getting screwed. Saurfang's presence in the BFA cinematic also leads me to believe this might not just be a one-off thing.

All the original Horde faction leaders are gone, besides Sylvanas, so I'm glad they seem to have realized they need to build up the new crew and the dynamic between them. It's just a shame the rebuilding is going to have to happen under Sylvanas.

The comment on Silithus was nice too. Let's see if they can't keep this up and give these characters tangible identities for their playerbase to latch onto.

Last edited by Krakhed; 01-17-2018 at 10:57 AM..
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  #3033  
Old 01-17-2018, 11:17 AM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Speaking of Silithus, the Horde quests don't seem so bad. While Nathanos of course tell you to watch out for the Alliance, when you report the orc commander, he's mostly concerned with keeping the goblin in line and working (in a near perfect recreation of the Lazy Peon quest). In follow up quests, he's basically worried about everything else in Silithus. Though he does seem little "Garroshy" with his distaste for their behavior and wishing he could do more than just beat them into line.

It's actually a random Bilgewater worker that says he's been hearing about SI:7 being around and to take him out - mostly because he's worried about the consequences if Sylvanas is displeased with them. It comes across as more defending their "claims" than anything else. In fact, the SI:7 NPCs sound downright bloodthirsty by comparison.

So yeah, if you were expecting a super duper evil Horde actions in the Silithus quests, you're gonna be disappointed.
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  #3034  
Old 01-17-2018, 11:37 AM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

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I mean, I thought that was already acknowledge during PTR? The whole situation is in no way black and white and those who say it is, mainly do so because they want it to be. Sylvanas wanting to be one step ahead of the Alliance is in no way evil, just like the Alliance not wanting them to have it due to distrust isn't aswell.

However the whole thing is set up as the Alliance being the ones to draw first blood without even fully knowing what it is until the end, when Magni says that it is in fact the lifeblood of Azeroth. If anything they do come off as bloodthirsty " Try not to die too fast, I want to enjoy this" - Alliance agents to worker goblins.

The whole situation is not some "dis side is wrong and this side is right" in the slightest, but the Alliance does indeed comes off as the instigator in this instance, as much as some would try to deny it or not liking for some reason (no seriously, it's actually fine for the Alliance to be the aggresor for once, well technically twice in a row as per Stormheim).

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  #3035  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:37 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by DerpiusMaximus View Post
Speaking of Silithus, the Horde quests don't seem so bad. While Nathanos of course tell you to watch out for the Alliance, when you report the orc commander, he's mostly concerned with keeping the goblin in line and working (in a near perfect recreation of the Lazy Peon quest). In follow up quests, he's basically worried about everything else in Silithus. Though he does seem little "Garroshy" with his distaste for their behavior and wishing he could do more than just beat them into line.

It's actually a random Bilgewater worker that says he's been hearing about SI:7 being around and to take him out - mostly because he's worried about the consequences if Sylvanas is displeased with them. It comes across as more defending their "claims" than anything else. In fact, the SI:7 NPCs sound downright bloodthirsty by comparison.

So yeah, if you were expecting a super duper evil Horde actions in the Silithus quests, you're gonna be disappointed.
The problem with the Horde is not in the low level ranks, it's in the leadership. For most of the Horde, they are just following orders and defending territory. We all know, however, that Sylvanas and Galliwyx mean no good. Heck, even Saurfang and Baine know it.

I must remind that the Alliance finding an artifact in Ashran was enough for the Horde to attack due to fear, even when the Alliance had just spared the Horde after Orgrimmar, and even thought Alliance never used a super weapon against the Horde. The Horde has a way worse track record of misusing artifacts.

So, what can the Alliance do? Wait until the Horde gets its hand in a super weapon so they are "justified" to act?
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  #3036  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:41 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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I'm in favor of this too. If BfA is going to do a faction war storyline right, we need a grey conflict instead of the black and white that Mists of Pandaria was. Especially we need the Alliance to be the aggressors since the Horde needs an actual reason to want to fight them beyond "the Warchief said so."

Stormheim was a step in the right direction, but ultimately failed since Genn turned out to be 100% right that the Horde was up to no good and culminated with him saving a literal angel from being tortured and enslaved by Sylvanas, which hurt the idea of the Alliance being morally grey aggressors.
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  #3037  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:48 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I'm in favor of this too. If BfA is going to do a faction war storyline right, we need a grey conflict instead of the black and white that Mists of Pandaria was. Especially we need the Alliance to be the aggressors since the Horde needs an actual reason to want to fight them beyond "the Warchief said so."

Stormheim was a step in the right direction, but ultimately failed since Genn turned out to be 100% right that the Horde was up to no good and culminated with him saving a literal angel from being tortured and enslaved by Sylvanas, which hurt the idea of the Alliance being morally grey aggressors.
I could believe in a moral conflict if Sylvanas was not the Warchief. With her there, there's no way the conflict goes grey. We have seen her inner thoughts, we know her intentions and methods.
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  #3038  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:04 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I'm in favor of this too. If BfA is going to do a faction war storyline right, we need a grey conflict instead of the black and white that Mists of Pandaria was. Especially we need the Alliance to be the aggressors since the Horde needs an actual reason to want to fight them beyond "the Warchief said so."

Stormheim was a step in the right direction, but ultimately failed since Genn turned out to be 100% right that the Horde was up to no good and culminated with him saving a literal angel from being tortured and enslaved by Sylvanas, which hurt the idea of the Alliance being morally grey aggressors.
To piggyback off of what Deicide said, the Horde cinematic, taken with Varimathras's revelations in Legion, spoilers from the new book, and the fact that the Horde makes an attempt at, if not succeeds in pulling off, the greatest act of mass murder since the Third War which only then induces the Alliance to go after Lordaeron, suggest that Genn and Shaw will be 100% right that the Horde is up to no good in pursuing the Azerite as well.

Now, if they wanted to flip this entire script on its head, they could just snip out that half baked Teldrassil idea and just have the Azerite conflict lead to war. The Horde's getting another capital city anyway in Suramar, right? It would balance out AND lead to a more interesting story, with the Alliance wearing the aggressor shoes for a change.
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  #3039  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:31 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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To piggyback off of what Deicide said, the Horde cinematic, taken with Varimathras's revelations in Legion, spoilers from the new book, and the fact that the Horde makes an attempt at, if not succeeds in pulling off, the greatest act of mass murder since the Third War which only then induces the Alliance to go after Lordaeron, suggest that Genn and Shaw will be 100% right that the Horde is up to no good in pursuing the Azerite as well.

Now, if they wanted to flip this entire script on its head, they could just snip out that half baked Teldrassil idea and just have the Azerite conflict lead to war. The Horde's getting another capital city anyway in Suramar, right? It would balance out AND lead to a more interesting story, with the Alliance wearing the aggressor shoes for a change.
Still having a case of severe rectal bleeding over Teldrassil? Damn kiddo, we don't even know what leads up to that event, yet you won't miss but one chance to moan about it, right?
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  #3040  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:36 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Still having a case of severe rectal bleeding over Teldrassil? Damn kiddo, we don't even know what leads up to that event, yet you won't miss but one chance to moan about it, right?
Nope! Sorry. This is your life now.
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  #3041  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:39 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Nope! Sorry. This is your life now.
Someone really needs to take you on a date that'd involve a lot of tree hugging.
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  #3042  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:50 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Someone really needs to take you on a date that'd involve a lot of tree hugging.
That would be neat. But in the meantime, to stay on topic, I think I'll shill my wonderful plan.

That whole Burning of Teldrassil thing? Just say "Yeah, we're not doing that. The Horde attacks Ashenvale in reply to the Azerite conflict, they get nowhere. The whole thing's a bloody stalemate at Mor'shan and the Southfury River, we might do a warfront someday but we'd rather focus on human development."

Boom, easy. With a tweet or two I have:

- Made the Alliance an instigator in a conflict.
- Given the Alliance some sense of direction.
- Allowed the story to focus on the various human kingdoms instead of being distracted by a "woe-is-me" instigating event.
- Allowed the Horde to bask in the moral righteousness of fighting a defensive war.
- Saved content development time with respect to Kalimdor.
- Saved content development time with respect to Night Elven resettlement.
- Silenced all of the false flag people.
- Made the Night Elves great again. (Or at least competent, which is all that's really needed)
- Did the above without making the Horde out to be chumps.
- Neatly avoided having to make new Night Elven content.
- By extension, neatly avoided having to involve Tyrande in anything at all ever.

It solves so much!
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  #3043  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:03 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Blizzard are loyal followers of the law of equivalent exchange. If Darnassus does not burn, you might as well scrap the entire premise of B4A. (Except the parts we actually like, Kul Tiras and Zuldazar!)
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  #3044  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:09 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Blizzard are loyal followers of the law of equivalent exchange. If Darnassus does not burn, you might as well scrap the entire premise of B4A. (Except the parts we actually like, Kul Tiras and Zuldazar!)
Already addressed. The Horde is already getting Suramar. Just make it official. Dump some capitol city NPCs in there like your auctioneers and your hairdressers. Again, easy, done - capitol city count remains the same.

On to an expansion with a morally grey Alliance that embarks on a war that it started for reasons that it thinks are justified but that leaves the Horde with justifiable reasons to fight back!
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  #3045  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:11 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
That would be neat. But in the meantime, to stay on topic, I think I'll shill my wonderful plan.

That whole Burning of Teldrassil thing? Just say "Yeah, we're not doing that. The Horde attacks Ashenvale in reply to the Azerite conflict, they get nowhere. The whole thing's a bloody stalemate at Mor'shan and the Southfury River, we might do a warfront someday but we'd rather focus on human development."

Boom, easy. With a tweet or two I have:

- Made the Alliance an instigator in a conflict.
- Given the Alliance some sense of direction.
- Allowed the story to focus on the various human kingdoms instead of being distracted by a "woe-is-me" instigating event.
- Allowed the Horde to bask in the moral righteousness of fighting a defensive war.
- Saved content development time with respect to Kalimdor.
- Saved content development time with respect to Night Elven resettlement.
- Silenced all of the false flag people.
- Made the Night Elves great again. (Or at least competent, which is all that's really needed)
- Did the above without making the Horde out to be chumps.
- Neatly avoided having to make new Night Elven content.
- By extension, neatly avoided having to involve Tyrande in anything at all ever.

It solves so much!
So, yet more status quo? That's shamefully boring.
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  #3046  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:17 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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So, yet more status quo? That's shamefully boring.
I'm not sure how you argue that it's status quo, unless you're taking the narrow view that only Kalimdor matters, and that somehow a narrative where the Horde pulverizes Night Elves and the Alliance are shown to be nearly morally impervious is new, fresh, or exciting.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:23 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I'm not sure how you argue that it's status quo, unless you're taking the narrow view that only Kalimdor matters, and that somehow a narrative where the Horde pulverizes Night Elves and the Alliance are shown to be nearly morally impervious is new, fresh, or exciting.
No large territorial changes to Kalimdor? It is status quo in Kalimdor. And I am the last person you'd find liking that. If it were up to me, the whole world would burn and nations would migrate. Just like the good old days of Warcraft II. Nothing was safe.
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  #3048  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:23 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I'm in favor of this too. If BfA is going to do a faction war storyline right, we need a grey conflict instead of the black and white that Mists of Pandaria was. Especially we need the Alliance to be the aggressors since the Horde needs an actual reason to want to fight them beyond "the Warchief said so."

Stormheim was a step in the right direction, but ultimately failed since Genn turned out to be 100% right that the Horde was up to no good and culminated with him saving a literal angel from being tortured and enslaved by Sylvanas, which hurt the idea of the Alliance being morally grey aggressors.
There are people who still believe that Genn was in the wrong, and that Sylvanas was in the right in Stormheim.
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  #3049  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:29 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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No large territorial changes to Kalimdor? It is status quo in Kalimdor. And I am the last person you'd find liking that. If it were up to me, the whole world would burn and nations would migrate. Just like the good old days of Warcraft II. Nothing was safe.
Ah, gotcha. Well, then I guess you and I are at an impasse. Oh well.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:37 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Blizzard are loyal followers of the law of equivalent exchange. If Darnassus does not burn, you might as well scrap the entire premise of B4A. (Except the parts we actually like, Kul Tiras and Zuldazar!)
I don't mind the "equivalent exchange", since the comunity will always complain otherwise, I just wish it was used in smarter ways. It's possible to hide the obvious exchange.
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