Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 02-22-2010, 11:46 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

Elune
Rolandius's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: United States of America
Posts: 6,588

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
With Tyrande's help(Keep his mind clear) and other druids' help, he cleaned almost the whole world and the whole dream through a super storm then kicked Xavius' ass. Like the Spirit Bomb in the end of DBZ, defeated Buu.
But they forgot a piece like at the end of the movie Time Bandits?
__________________
"Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious."
George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:38 AM
Nozdormu Nozdormu is offline

Lord of Time
Nozdormu's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,862

Default

Sooo....Is it worth buying?
__________________
{ Bronze Dragons fly at 88 mph }
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-23-2010, 05:04 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

Eternal
Sports72Xtrm's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,688

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
The most disappointing character, from my pov is Fandral, nothing but a crazy druid, take a ugly shadow figure as his son. Talk about create a new world.

The WotA Tyrande was just a young nightelf girl. So I understand her act so differently than WC3.
But 10000 years passed, I think the WC3 Tyrande is better as a brave and a little bit savage leader. About the Stormrage novel one, I agree to put some struggle on her, some of them are very good so I can accept them even she's not as good as the WC3 Tyrande. But later Knaak didn't do a good job on building her character, all she did is calling her goddess, fight satyrs, got captured over and over again, too pale and ideal, pretty much like many female characters in Knaak's other novels.
I agree. I don't know why Knakk characterizes Tyrande this way. I mean Tyrande is not some innocent girl who wouldn't harm a fly. She's ordered the deaths on orcs and Wardens on a whim. Why is she this scared little girl who's afraid to kill?
I don't think Knakk is very good at characterizations. I think he's pretty good at building the template of interesting characters though. Like Lucan and Jarod who have interesting backgrounds and identities. But he makes them act so mary sue that I can't even relate to them as someone I could see realistically act this way. You know what I mean?
__________________
Dis my Jam
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-23-2010, 05:15 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

Elune
Rolandius's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: United States of America
Posts: 6,588

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozdormu View Post
Sooo....Is it worth buying?
Well if you like:

1) Collecting everything that has to do with Warcraft.

2) Like everything by Knaak.

3) Want to have everything with even a bit of lore.

It may be worth it.
__________________
"Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious."
George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-23-2010, 07:26 AM
DreamingGod DreamingGod is offline

Keeper of the Grove
DreamingGod's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 615

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
I agree. I don't know why Knakk characterizes Tyrande this way. I mean Tyrande is not some innocent girl who wouldn't harm a fly. She's ordered the deaths on orcs and Wardens on a whim. Why is she this scared little girl who's afraid to kill?
I don't think Knakk is very good at characterizations. I think he's pretty good at building the template of interesting characters though. Like Lucan and Jarod who have interesting backgrounds and identities. But he makes them act so mary sue that I can't even relate to them as someone I could see realistically act this way. You know what I mean?
You know, you hit the nail on the head, that is exactly it. I've always been kinda confused about knaak books, I like some of his characters (Jarod, for one.) but then I hate ALOT of stuff from them... But that explains it, he's just not the best at characterizing, he does create good backstories though.
__________________
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits Dreaming"

"Icrecrown: I hear the natives can be real liches..."
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-23-2010, 07:45 AM
Nene Nene is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 200

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
I don't know why Knakk characterizes Tyrande this way
Tyrande is a woman. Females in Knaakworld don't kick ass, they sort of vaguely talk about kicking ass while waiting for the menfolk to get back so they can have their babies.

Sentinels? Females kicking ass?! UNPOSSIBLE, I MUST INVENT THE MOON GUARD
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:11 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,548
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

What was Teldrassil's corruption's cause? Xavius? a time-traveling ax? a crybaby epidemic?
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:16 AM
Stackattack Stackattack is offline

Arch-Druid
Stackattack's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,826

Default

off topic - ax is and old england spelling of axe, as far as i know :p
__________________
"Today Hellscream shall learn the lesson that Thrall failed to teach him...
Stormwind will never fall!"
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:22 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

Elune
Exxile87's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One nation, under Bloo
Posts: 7,656
BattleTag: Exxile87#1525
Send a message via AIM to Exxile87 Send a message via Yahoo to Exxile87

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stackattack View Post
off topic - ax is and old england spelling of axe, as far as i know :p



This is Ax.




That is an axe.

/discussion
__________________
Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:37 AM
Stackattack Stackattack is offline

Arch-Druid
Stackattack's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,826

Default

__________________
"Today Hellscream shall learn the lesson that Thrall failed to teach him...
Stormwind will never fall!"
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:45 AM
Slowpokeking
Guest
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
What was Teldrassil's corruption's cause? Xavius? a time-traveling ax? a crybaby epidemic?
Xavius was linked to Teldrassil, with Fandral's help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozdormu View Post
Sooo....Is it worth buying?
Honestly, unless you need it as lore source, it's not worth more than 5 bucks as a novel.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:56 AM
Zula Zula is offline

Eternal
Zula's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Argentina
Posts: 2,929

Default

A human? Born in the esmerald dream?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas roleplaying with Xie
"Take me, Xie! I know you dream of me as I dream of you; you haunt me Xie! Take me! Take me like an aminal Xie!"
Xie wants YOU to check Wulfang brainchild RIGHT NOW. SO click on this text
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:00 AM
Slowpokeking
Guest
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zula View Post
A human? Born in the esmerald dream?
Yes, that's true. His background is interesting but characteristic is like, uh, you will forget this guy after finish with the book if he does not have such a background.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:18 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zula View Post
A human? Born in the esmerald dream?
He has got one of THE most sue-ish backstories I've heard of. His pregnant mother is lured into the Dream by a fairy after his father dies and she's rescued by druids while in labor or something. That puts him right up with Med'An on my list of "horrible births".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:23 AM
Slowpokeking
Guest
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
He has got one of THE most sue-ish backstories I've heard of. His pregnant mother is lured into the Dream by a fairy after his father dies and she's rescued by druids while in labor or something. That puts him right up with Med'An on my list of "horrible births".
His mother was said, seduced by a fey creature. He was saved by Eranikus, then sent to Krasus because the green dragons thought human don't belong here. In the novel he's more like a tool, a key that been used to help the nightelves than a character. I didn't pay much attention to him, either.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:24 AM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

Dryad
Altrantis's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chile
Posts: 166

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nene View Post
Tyrande is a woman. Females in Knaakworld don't kick ass, they sort of vaguely talk about kicking ass while waiting for the menfolk to get back so they can have their babies.

Sentinels? Females kicking ass?! UNPOSSIBLE, I MUST INVENT THE MOON GUARD
This is very common, even among women. Lots of people hate women who kick ass too, and female leaders, this oddly includes a large population of females. I am of the opposite oppinion.
Quote:
A human? Born in the esmerald dream?
Esmerald? Hehe, spanglish much? I'm chilean so it caught my attention right away. "What's this spanish word doing in this english text! *looks at poster's location* Aaaaaah!"
__________________
I apologize for my poor Common.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:25 AM
Zula Zula is offline

Eternal
Zula's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Argentina
Posts: 2,929

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
He has got one of THE most sue-ish backstories I've heard of. His pregnant mother is lured into the Dream by a fairy after his father dies and she's rescued by druids while in labor or something. That puts him right up with Med'An on my list of "horrible births".
Holy fuck but how does that make any sense, I mean why did the fairy lured her?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas roleplaying with Xie
"Take me, Xie! I know you dream of me as I dream of you; you haunt me Xie! Take me! Take me like an aminal Xie!"
Xie wants YOU to check Wulfang brainchild RIGHT NOW. SO click on this text
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:28 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zula View Post
Holy fuck but how does that make any sense, I mean why did the fairy lured her?
Because Knaak. Do you need any further explanation?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:29 AM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

Dryad
Altrantis's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chile
Posts: 166

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zula View Post
Holy fuck but how does that make any sense, I mean why did the fairy lured her?
Well, there's lots of ancient stories, mostly norse, that work that way.
__________________
I apologize for my poor Common.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:33 AM
Slowpokeking
Guest
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altrantis View Post
This is very common, even among women. Lots of people hate women who kick ass too, and female leaders, this oddly includes a large population of females. I am of the opposite oppinion.

Esmerald? Hehe, spanglish much? I'm chilean so it caught my attention right away. "What's this spanish word doing in this english text! *looks at poster's location* Aaaaaah!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nene View Post
Tyrande is a woman. Females in Knaakworld don't kick ass, they sort of vaguely talk about kicking ass while waiting for the menfolk to get back so they can have their babies.

Sentinels? Females kicking ass?! UNPOSSIBLE, I MUST INVENT THE MOON GUARD
She does fight a lot in the novel and a pretty good fighter, but not good enough as a character, especially as a leader and a military commander. Almost all her later part is about her strong love of Furion, which is too pale.
I once wrote play about her, I know it's hard to understand and set control on the WC3 Tyrande, a strong leader with kindness and femininity, also set flaw and struggle between these elements. Especially for male writers. But that's also the reason why she's the best female character in WC3. I did spend a lot of time to make her better. I guess Knaak won't have time to pay so much attention on her because this book is called Stormrage, not Whisperwind.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:48 AM
Stackattack Stackattack is offline

Arch-Druid
Stackattack's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,826

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galvan View Post
yarly. your point with taht? :p ax is still a valid spelling xP
__________________
"Today Hellscream shall learn the lesson that Thrall failed to teach him...
Stormwind will never fall!"
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:56 AM
Altrantis Altrantis is offline

Dryad
Altrantis's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chile
Posts: 166

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
She does fight a lot in the novel and a pretty good fighter, but not good enough as a character, especially as a leader and a military commander. Almost all her later part is about her strong love of Furion, which is too pale.
I once wrote play about her, I know it's hard to understand and set control on the WC3 Tyrande, a strong leader with kindness and femininity, also set flaw and struggle between these elements. Especially for male writers. But that's also the reason why she's the best female character in WC3. I did spend a lot of time to make her better. I guess Knaak won't have time to pay so much attention on her because this book is called Stormrage, not Whisperwind.
It's not about that, it's that most writters seem to be unnable to make female characters, you know, do stuff. They always appear as minor or weak or somehow always end as a princess in disress, and only ocationally they will appear to kick ass, mostly because the author thought "Damn, I'm not making her badass enough", so he or she makes the character kick some ass, and then forgets and makes the character return to her standart doormat type.

Typically they try to do stuff and fail, and need a male to get the job done.
__________________
I apologize for my poor Common.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:20 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

Sha of Disappointment
Commander Rotal's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,095

Default

I guess most writers just want to avoid creating a mary sue and just don't know how to do so. 'cause, let's face it, every_single_time a female charakter is acting over the top or badass, someone will shout "Mary SUE!" just because it is a woman that's not bound and gagged (or the shouter just plain has no clue what ms stands for).

well, that goes for most writers.

Knaack just sucks.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:31 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

Ethermancer - Admin
Cantus's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DC, U.S.
Posts: 11,090
BattleTag: Cantus#1700

Default

The problem isn't that authors cannot create such characters, but they can't juxtapose them against male leads well. Furion was without a doubt the main character here, and so Knaak wasn't able to balance this fact against other characters around him. As Slow noted, the beginning was decent but the novel eventually got away from its author, until at some point Furion was forced to develop super powers to save the day.

I think I know what went wrong though, Knaak's trying to create a sweeping epic out of a single novel, and he's doing so with characters that aren't of his own design. It's LotR envy, where Knaak wants to fit an entire universe into a small story and simply doesn't know how to pare down events until they make sense. Had this been another 3 novel deal with new characters maybe things would feel slightly less ridiculous (granted it's still Knaak we're talking about) but instead he couldn't handle the idea that thing weren't blown to grandiose proportions.
__________________

Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:43 AM
Vicious Vicious is offline

Eternal
Vicious's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,824

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nene View Post
Sentinels? Females kicking ass?! UNPOSSIBLE, I MUST INVENT THE MOON GUARD
*Psst*

The Sentinels were formed AFTER the War of the Ancients. Night Elf Society wasn't based on gender roles back then. But i guess Knaak even gets shit for consistency nowadays.

And that's a pretty weak example for your argument.

Quote:
He has got one of THE most sue-ish backstories I've heard of. His pregnant mother is lured into the Dream by a fairy after his father dies and she's rescued by druids while in labor or something. That puts him right up with Med'An on my list of "horrible births".
This, however, blows my fucking mind. How did anyone involved in the making of this book thought this was a good idea, i'll never know.
__________________

Warlock, Lord of Scrolls of Lore: Shut up, Timolas

Last edited by Vicious; 02-23-2010 at 11:47 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.