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  #8626  
Old 07-29-2014, 12:03 AM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Originally Posted by Kynrind View Post
That last part of your post would be unnecessarily antagonistic to the Alliance player base. A backhand with a sledgehammer.
...you mean doing something out of spite would be spiteful?

Pull the other.
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  #8627  
Old 07-29-2014, 02:56 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Explain to me, exclusively under the purview of lore, why the Alliance should just retake Stromgarde and Gilneas and not the entire subcontinent. If you appeal to gameplay mechanics you lose.
Because, exclusively under the purview of lore, it's a great bastion and geographic jumping-off point with which to suddenly attack Forsaken-Elven lands in a future date, when/if the Alliance is prepared to fight its next war against the Horde.

At least one Horde skinning instructor jokes about how they should skin humans, if anyone would buy them. I wouldn't mind if a some Alliance NPCs in Stromgarde and Gilneas made a few black jokes about wiping the Horde out of the Eastern Kingdoms.

EDIT: Easily beaten to it.

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Originally Posted by Tilgath View Post
Taking and securing the Arathi Highlands is a great deal easier than launching a full campaign to take the entire sub-continent minus Quel'thalas. By gaining Arathi (and Gilneas) the Alliance is in the position of establishing launching points for a future campaign against the Forsaken. A future campaign that is less rushed and has a better support chain.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-29-2014 at 03:00 AM..
  #8628  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:10 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Anduin doesn't have any actual power to dictate policy and Varian has outright said that war is still on the table ("We will end you" and all that.) Plus Varian has a shitload of personal history with Lordaeron, it wouldn't make any sense for him characterwise to just stop at Stromgarde, since we've already agreed that AN offensive is hypothetically taking place, just not where it would stop, and when you consider that more and more Forsaken atrocities will become apparent as the offensive continues.
I would've agreed with you 100% on this point, bolded bit especially (because it's not really open to debate given the past context) before Wolfheart.

But Wolfheart made it -perfectly- clear Blizzard don't give 2 shits about Varian's history with Lordaeron anymore, if they even remember it at all infact. I was waiting, that entire book, for Varian to throw Terenas' name at Greymane. It never happened. I'm still angry about that, but it doesn't change anything.

Moving on, but still on the same topic/s; I actually think the "Gameplay reasons" excuse is bullshit when you look at the money Blizzard has made, and continues to make, from WoW and all the WarCraft franchises cash-cows. The fact it's going to take as long as it does to get WoD - a medicore expansion with the worst Lore to date - from Siege of Orgrimmar already shows us that the Blizzard Development side of things is a, to put it politely, bit of a mess.

Alas, it's not happening, we all know that, so no sense wasting too much good energy on it. Let's try focus on stuff we have an outside chance of seeing happen in WoW's lifetime.
  #8629  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:41 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by EdWunclerIII View Post
No guys, you see the reason why Sylvanas and the Forsaken can't die is because where will all the dark and edgy people go? Or the people who know Sylvanas is just the hottest character to ever grace the world.

Nothing hotter than an undead girl who's skin cracks and peels everytime she tries to speak and probably has maggots burrowing inside her. How can you not be into necrophilia like that?
  #8630  
Old 07-29-2014, 05:10 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by EdWunclerIII View Post
No guys, you see the reason why Sylvanas and the Forsaken can't die is because where will all the dark and edgy people go? Or the people who know Sylvanas is just the hottest character to ever grace the world.

Nothing hotter than an undead girl who's skin cracks and peels everytime she tries to speak and probably has maggots burrowing inside her. How can you not be into necrophilia like that?
So you're enticed by the forbidden fruit?
  #8631  
Old 07-29-2014, 05:51 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Varian doesn't have any personal history with Lordaeron. He is Lo'grosh the only begotten son of Elune and Wolfgodman, placed on this world as an orcish gladiator slave. When he found out about a Stormwind prince who had died in recent history, he adopted the prince's name and showed up demanding the Alliance yield to him as their high king. When they refused, he devastated Stormwind City--destroying the barracks and park in particular. So that they would forever remember who had conquered them, Varian then built a great statue-fountain of himself outside his palace, using broken pieces of Stormwind Keep and parts of Danath's statue. He heard about how Bolvar and the PlayerCharacter defeated Onyxia, and he liked the story so much that he proclaimed he was the hero who had done everything, and the kingdom would remember the story that way under pain of death.

(Also I think he had two bipolar versions running around or something, but I never really understood what was happening there and it was resolved before I came back to the franchise, so I mainly pretend it never happened.)

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-29-2014 at 06:01 AM..
  #8632  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:01 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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To be honest, it's not as though Blizzard cannot fix what they've broken. They just need to be willing to get out of their Horde comfort zone and start writing the narrative in a cohesive and consistent manner. It's about time the lines were drawn in the land. If Blizzard is unwilling to make the war an actual war unless it affects the Alliance, then it's doomed. I honestly don't care about the, "Horde has less zones/cities," bullshit excuse. Theramore got nuked. Why couldn't the Bilgewater city in Azshara have gotten nuked? It seems to be about as large and so forth. Send the Skyfire over it and drop the bomb.

Forsaken use blight and raise the undead? Where are the paladins burning the Forsaken to ashes? Heck, where is the Ashbringer?


We're past the point where reasonable reaction is a possibility. Instead we're at a point where the factions of the world can make gestures in reaction to the War. This is the time for the Cenarion Circle to rejoin the Alliance, forcefully push any remnant Horde from Ashenvale, and regrow the forest. This is the time for the Argent Crusade to rejoin the Alliance, forcefully remove the Forsaken from Western Plaguelands, take the Bulwark and Andorhal, and create fortifications as part of the Alliance's plans to contain the Forsaken. This is the time for the Earthen Ring to rejoin the Horde and begin cleaning up the mess that is the Southfury River, the Barrens, and so forth.

This is the point in time where the game world should be reflecting all these things and more. We should see Stromgarde retaken, along with the land east of the river in Hillsbrad, at the -least-. We should see Alterac taken, being rebuilt as an Alliance bastion. We should see New Southshore being built in Hillsbrad as a much larger port. We should see Gilneas restored, with the Greymane Wall repaired and territory up to Shadowfang Keep back in their hands. We should see Dalaran return to it's crater.
  #8633  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:11 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I think all Alliance races should start marrying humans. It's time to breed out that non-human nonsense. They're old enough to get over their rebellious teenager phase and start acting like responsible adults.
  #8634  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:43 AM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
This is the point in time where the game world should be reflecting all these things and more. We should see Stromgarde retaken, along with the land east of the river in Hillsbrad, at the -least-. We should see Alterac taken, being rebuilt as an Alliance bastion. We should see New Southshore being built in Hillsbrad as a much larger port. We should see Gilneas restored, with the Greymane Wall repaired and territory up to Shadowfang Keep back in their hands. We should see Dalaran return to it's crater.
That would be glorious.
  #8635  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:45 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Can I have dual citizenship? I even get along with night elves sometimes.

Once again, the Horde was spared by the might of the Alliance!

What's behind the void zones...
  #8636  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:49 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Trickster View Post
Once again, the Horde was spared by the might of the Alliance!

What's behind the void zones...
The knight from your avatar is probably a Forsaken now.
  #8637  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:51 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The knight from your avatar is probably a Forsaken now.
Kill all Forsaken.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
  #8638  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:00 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Trickster View Post
Once again, the Horde was spared by the might of the Alliance!

What's behind the void zones...
Killing medical personal and chaplains is a war crime.
  #8639  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:03 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Killing medical personal and chaplains is a war crime.
This is why the Alliance doesn't win BGs.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
  #8640  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:04 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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You are right Fojar.

Kill all Forsaken.
  #8641  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:09 AM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
...you mean doing something out of spite would be spiteful?

Pull the other.
Honestly, at this time, I expect Blizzard to do that. It seems like the only part of the player base they care about is the Horde player base. After the last few expansions, it's fairly clear they don;t give a damn about the Alliance player base considering the story they have written for it or just left out. That's not to say the Horde didn't get a good story, many Horde players clearly didn't like the Horde story in Cata and MoP, but Blizzard tried to relive the glory days of WC2 and give the Horde a story they thought the Horde player would like. Many Horde players have liked it, many have not. But at least Blizzard tried with the Horde. With the Alliance, they damned near dropped it all, concentrating on finishing Horde areas and questing before starting on Alliance questing, Alliance story lines dropped or forgotten about, Alliance leaders forgetting or flat out ignoring certain provocations to concentrate on others.

So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Blizzard did give Stromgarde to the forsaken and ignores any Alliance development other than the Alliance shrugging its shoulders and deciding that it's not worth the cost in lives to push out and destroy the forsaken. This ignores the fact that the Burning Legion is far larger and more dangerous than any player faction, so why is the Alliance willing to fighting he Legion to the bitter end, but is not willing to do the same to the Horde/orc/forsaken which are much smaller threats?
  #8642  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:13 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Non-specific excuse!

*runs away*
  #8643  
Old 07-29-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
I would've agreed with you 100% on this point, bolded bit especially (because it's not really open to debate given the past context) before Wolfheart.

But Wolfheart made it -perfectly- clear Blizzard don't give 2 shits about Varian's history with Lordaeron anymore, if they even remember it at all infact. I was waiting, that entire book, for Varian to throw Terenas' name at Greymane. It never happened. I'm still angry about that, but it doesn't change anything.
What would that have achieved? There was nothing that any monarch could have done to save King Terenas. He was killed in cold-blood by his son on his throne. Plus, what weight would Terenas's name have against Genn? Genn did not exactly think highly of Terenas or Lordaeron.
  #8644  
Old 07-29-2014, 12:25 PM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
What would that have achieved? There was nothing that any monarch could have done to save King Terenas. He was killed in cold-blood by his son on his throne. Plus, what weight would Terenas's name have against Genn? Genn did not exactly think highly of Terenas or Lordaeron.
I was expecting Varian to point out how much Terenas meant to him/his gratitude to the man, and how "when his lands were beset by the Scourge, you simply left him and his people to their death. You coward!"

I'm not saying that would've been an exactly fair or 100% correct statement, but I would've expected it to of been touched on. If only because, ya know, it IS nice to see/hear of things from the older WarCraft games/books.
  #8645  
Old 07-29-2014, 01:53 PM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
Let's be honest, if they're ever going to do Stromgarde, it should either be part of a total revamp of Arathi, or a phased max level event. Maybe even do both, with the first half being the revamp, and then follow through on it (with Danath returning either at the end of the 25-30 chain, or the start of the max level content) afterward.

A rebuilt Stromgarde doesn't need to be a capital city, but it should still exist. Maybe even in Alliance hands. Not that I am not above giving it to the Forsaken out of spite. Spite can be amusing, and tastes better than 7-Up.
It should exist, but we can pretty safely assume that it never will. Remember that whole debacle where someone datamined a map that hinted at a Stromgarde scenario? After pages upon pages of excited speculation from both Alliance and Horde players, the devs set Lore into the thread to let everyone know that not only was there no Stromgarde scenario the next patch, but they had no intention of ever doing a Stromgarde scenario. It wasn't even a case where they say "we'd like to do this eventually, but we won't be able to in the near future." It was flat-out "this is not even on the list of things we'd like to eventually do."

Yes, it's dumb. It was one of the few things in months, maybe even years, that generated mostly positive feedback, and not only did they not re-think their decision to not do a scenario, but they went out of their way to tell the players that unless Hell freezes over, Stromgarde is going to remain in Vanilla-era limbo for the rest of WoW's existence.
  #8646  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:08 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Arterius View Post
It should exist, but we can pretty safely assume that it never will. Remember that whole debacle where someone datamined a map that hinted at a Stromgarde scenario? After pages upon pages of excited speculation from both Alliance and Horde players, the devs set Lore into the thread to let everyone know that not only was there no Stromgarde scenario the next patch, but they had no intention of ever doing a Stromgarde scenario. It wasn't even a case where they say "we'd like to do this eventually, but we won't be able to in the near future." It was flat-out "this is not even on the list of things we'd like to eventually do."

Yes, it's dumb. It was one of the few things in months, maybe even years, that generated mostly positive feedback, and not only did they not re-think their decision to not do a scenario, but they went out of their way to tell the players that unless Hell freezes over, Stromgarde is going to remain in Vanilla-era limbo for the rest of WoW's existence.
The only way Stromgarde is going to make a bigger impact in WoW is when you can play as a Stromgarde.

It was the only way that Gilneas was brought back into the Alliance, but they had to become worgen since human = Stormwind.

So what can we transform the Stromgardians into so that they have a bigger impact in WoW?
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  #8647  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:10 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
The only way Stromgarde is going to make a bigger impact in WoW is when you can play as a Stromgarde.

It was the only way that Gilneas was brought back into the Alliance, but they had to become worgen since human = Stormwind.

So what can we transform the Stromgardians into so that they have a bigger impact in WoW?
Demons. The Shadow Council did it.
  #8648  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:16 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
This is why the Alliance doesn't win BGs.
You don't want to commit war crimes do you?
  #8649  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:19 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
You don't want to commit war crimes do you?
Hey, yesterday I was saving all the poor, widdle elves from Dalaran, and they told me to kill Alliance clerics! *gasp*

Will the guys in the white coats come to collect me now? *shudder*
  #8650  
Old 07-29-2014, 03:24 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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PJ, are you fraternizing with the enemy again?
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