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  #7726  
Old 11-16-2017, 07:17 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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If I remember right it was just a magic cup that never ran out of beer.
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  #7727  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:00 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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If I remember right it was just a magic cup that never ran out of beer.
Hm. Yeah, I suppose that makes sense.
Still, it feels a bit weird to me that there's apparently no explanation for it.
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  #7728  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:16 AM
Darkphoenix Darkphoenix is offline

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Unsure if I'm right or wrong, I've always seen Druids and Monks as specialized Shamans. Expanding upon this, whilst Shamans deal in the six elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, Chi (or Nature?), and Decay), Monks deal only with Chi and Druids with nature.

Here's the problem I need help with: what's the fundamental difference between Nature and Chi? Explain it to me like I am a child. I confused myself a bit on this over the years.
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  #7729  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Unsure if I'm right or wrong, I've always seen Druids and Monks as specialized Shamans. Expanding upon this, whilst Shamans deal in the six elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, Chi (or Nature?), and Decay), Monks deal only with Chi and Druids with nature.

Here's the problem I need help with: what's the fundamental difference between Nature and Chi? Explain it to me like I am a child. I confused myself a bit on this over the years.
Refer to this chart from the Chronicle.

Effectively, there are 6 types or sources of magic (Nature, Light, Fel, Necromancy, Void and Arcane) and 6 elements (fire, earth, air, water, spirit, decay). You can use any of the six types of magic to manipulate any of the elements, though some magic types usually stick to manipulating certain elements (for instance, most fel users stick to decay and fire, necromancy users stick to decay and water/air in the form of ice spells, mages are famous for fire and water/air in ice spells, etc). Based on their relative positions on the chart, certain elements are linked more strongly to certain types of magic, especially Spirit and Nature and Decay and Necromancy.


Druids, Monks and Shamans all get their power from nature magic and all make heavy use of spirit as an element. Shamans get their power through nature and use spirit to commune and bargain with the 4 classical elements, though dark shamans can also use decay to bully the elements into unwilling servitude (it is unclear if, when using decay, dark shamans use necromantic powers or not, but I don't want to sound like Necrophotic).

"Chi" is simply the pandaren word for the element of spirit. Monks take spirit as an element and focus it inward into their bodies to perform supernatural feats. It's unclear but they might also manipulate water in a similar manner to shamans to heal, if the mists used by mistweaver monks are literal, magical water droplets. Otherwise, they are differentiated from shamans by almost exclusively using spirit as an element to enhance their combat prowess and bodies as opposed to using spirit as a medium and bargaining chip.

Druids use spirit to enhance the health and bodies of living things around them, as well as using it to force their bodies to change form. Since druids are so tied to nature magic they don't often talk about spirit as an element separate from "nature" in general.
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  #7730  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:01 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Unsure if I'm right or wrong, I've always seen Druids and Monks as specialized Shamans. Expanding upon this, whilst Shamans deal in the six elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, Chi (or Nature?), and Decay), Monks deal only with Chi and Druids with nature.

Here's the problem I need help with: what's the fundamental difference between Nature and Chi? Explain it to me like I am a child. I confused myself a bit on this over the years.
What monks call Chi is Spirit, the spirit of life used by shamans. The fifth element that brings balance to the other four.
The difference between a monk and a shaman is that the monk harnesses its own spirit and uses it with his body and the shaman ask the elements for assistance.
Nature is the odd one nowadays. 'Nature/Nature magic' seems to be just the druids asking the living beings of the planet for their life energy (spirit) to heal or do whatever.
I guess the difference between a shaman and a druid is that the former asks the element itself and the latter asks beings with that element (which, by the way, is everything that exists. All life in the Great Dark Beyond has spirit).

Theoretically someone could use its own spirit and punch people, ask nature to transfer it to themselves or others and ask the element of Spirit itself to harness it.

Anyway, everything if I remember correctly is just a byproduct of Light touching planets and infusing them with the spark of life according to Chronicle.

EDIT: Omacron explained it much better ^^.

Last edited by Whitrix; 12-09-2017 at 10:07 AM..
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  #7731  
Old 12-09-2017, 06:42 PM
Darkphoenix Darkphoenix is offline

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Thank you for the help, Omacron and Whitrix. Things are a lot clearer now.

Emperor Shaohao sacrificed himself to shroud Pandaria in mist from the rest of the world during the first Legion invasion. I have always seen this mist to be his Chi as opposed to him manipulating the weather using Chi to cover the island-continent in a normal mist. If I am correct, then I think Mistweavers are built on the inspiration found in Emperor Shaohao's final act, as they, too, warp their Chi into a mist to help and protect others.

Another quick question on Chi: Do we have any lore on how it makes a wielder feel? The word "positive" has been thrown about relating to this question, but I can't find lore on that. Do they specifically feel positive emotions, too, meaning that you can't really be an evil, or by positive does it more mean outlook? For example, you can be evil with a optimistic outlook.
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  #7732  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:00 PM
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Chi/spirit feels good like being healthy feels good, like a shot of caffeine or a good night's sleep. It's about the living body, chi/spirit fuels things, it's more physical than emotional..
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  #7733  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:48 AM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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I wish we had more history for Argus. Was it ordered by the Titans? Were the Eredar 100% native to Argus, like Trolls to Azeroth? Would there have been a need to post Titanforged keepers as there was no Old God infestation?
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  #7734  
Old 12-14-2017, 11:10 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I don't think the Pantheon knew about Argus. Doesn't Chronicle say that Azeroth was the only world soul they found in eons?
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  #7735  
Old 12-14-2017, 12:20 PM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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I don't think the Pantheon knew about Argus. Doesn't Chronicle say that Azeroth was the only world soul they found in eons?
Yes it does. However, it was known to the Naaru as evidenced by the Atam'al Crystals that were used to contact them during the exodus of Velen and the Draenei. Not sure what lines of communication there were between Titans and Naaru though. I just don't get how the Titans missed it. The Eredar were renowned for their magical prowess, so much so that Sargeras knew of them and recruited them into the Legion to be generals for his armies.
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  #7736  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:07 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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We don't have an actual timetable for how long it takes for titans to mature and emerge, so there could potentially be any number of them out there that the Pantheon found and "prepped" before finding Azeroth that just haven't finished developing yet.

Additionally, the titans themselves aren't necessarily fully aware of why certain worlds have world-souls and others don't, or if the world-souls have always existed or came into being sometime later. It's not actually said if world-souls were a one-shot thing created at the dawn of creation within select planets, or if there weren't any to begin with and certain planets existed with the right conditions to "grow" them. If the latter, then theoretically it could turn out that by reordering planets that didn't already have world-souls, the Pantheon might have been unwittingly promoting those conditions and encouraging those planets to eventually produce titans of their own. In which case one could speculate that Argus might be a titan that was produced in such a fashion as life proliferated on its surface over the ages, either naturally or by way of the Pantheon reordering things.

That said, the Pantheon themselves knew they had only explored a tiny sliver of the totality of creation, so not finding Argus isn't necessarily that much of a stretch. Sargeras could have easily learned about the eredar from his demonic subordinates, who'd possibly visited even more worlds than he had during the eons of invading anywhere that the veil between the Great Dark and Twisting Nether breached. We know he and Agrammar would show up to drive them back from efvery reordered world they attacked, but that doesn't mean they weren't also assailing millions of other planets that the titans never knew about because they'd never visited and appointed Constellar watchers.

As renowned as the eredar probably were on Argus (I'm pretty sure they were never outright stated to be alone on the planet as the only sapient species, so that renown could have extended to other intelligent races on their world), the way Thal'kiel's delving into the Twisting Nether was portrayed made it seem like something extremely new to them. As if for all their arcane prowess, whether from inability or disinterest the eredar hadn't really been exploring worlds and realms beyond their own until that point, so their contact with extraplanetary and extradimensional beings other than the implied ancient contact with the naaru was possibly very minimal until Thal'kiel's experiments caught Sargeras' attention.
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  #7737  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
As renowned as the eredar probably were on Argus (I'm pretty sure they were never outright stated to be alone on the planet as the only sapient species, so that renown could have extended to other intelligent races on their world), the way Thal'kiel's delving into the Twisting Nether was portrayed made it seem like something extremely new to them. As if for all their arcane prowess, whether from inability or disinterest the eredar hadn't really been exploring worlds and realms beyond their own until that point, so their contact with extraplanetary and extradimensional beings other than the implied ancient contact with the naaru was possibly very minimal until Thal'kiel's experiments caught Sargeras' attention.
The quest "Bully Pulpit" has Kil'jaeden imply (edit: or outright state in a flowery way) that Sargeras was their "first contact".
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  #7738  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:55 PM
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The quest "Bully Pulpit" has Kil'jaeden imply that Sargeras was their "first contact".
Well, there you go.
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  #7739  
Old 12-18-2017, 07:18 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Do we know what ever happened to Thrall's piece of Frostwolf cloth from Lord of the Clans? Shower thoughts.

Last edited by Asterisk; 12-18-2017 at 07:20 AM..
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  #7740  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:14 AM
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Do we know what ever happened to Thrall's piece of Frostwolf cloth from Lord of the Clans? Shower thoughts.
Nope, presumably still in his belongings somewhere.
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  #7741  
Old 12-18-2017, 01:01 PM
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Do we know what ever happened to Thrall's piece of Frostwolf cloth from Lord of the Clans? Shower thoughts.
"On my planet, it means hope"
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  #7742  
Old 12-18-2017, 04:26 PM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
It's not actually said if world-souls were a one-shot thing created at the dawn of creation within select planets, or if there weren't any to begin with and certain planets existed with the right conditions to "grow" them. If the latter, then theoretically it could turn out that by reordering planets that didn't already have world-souls, the Pantheon might have been unwittingly promoting those conditions and encouraging those planets to eventually produce titans of their own. In which case one could speculate that Argus might be a titan that was produced in such a fashion as life proliferated on its surface over the ages, either naturally or by way of the Pantheon reordering things.
In the most recent audio drama, it touches on the creation of Titans:

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Thousand Years Of War
This being was so much more powerful than the minion of the Shadow had been. Then, she
had witnessed flashes of destiny. Now, she lived a history that surpassed the existence of
the universe.
Blink.
It was energy, spinning out into the cosmos.
Blink.
It found warmth near a sun, and a world formed around it to protect it as it grew.
Blink.
Generations of life lived and died upon it.
Blink.
It was betrayed. It was bound by something powerful.
Blink.
Pain. Pain. It hurt so much. Its only solace lay within its dream.
Blink.
They enslaved worlds. They burned worlds. They used its strength to revive their fallen
souls. It hurt so much.
Blink.
They found another. It was much more powerful. They wanted to claim it, too. Then they
would be unstoppable.
Blink.
It screamed into the cosmos for help. Two children answered the call. Two bright lights.
Blink.
Something I just noticed as I posted this is that it seems to reference Argus having some kind of Emerald Dream as well. Interesting...

Last edited by HackBenjamin; 12-18-2017 at 04:28 PM..
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  #7743  
Old 12-19-2017, 04:04 PM
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Has anyone ever been called a Saint in Warcraft before? Like an actual Saint, not just a synonym for good or kind. Anything in the Church of Holy Light?
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  #7744  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:51 PM
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Nothing turns up, so I think it is safe to assume no.
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  #7745  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackBenjamin View Post
In the most recent audio drama, it touches on the creation of Titans:



Something I just noticed as I posted this is that it seems to reference Argus having some kind of Emerald Dream as well. Interesting...
What's the deal with the Audio-Dramas?
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  #7746  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:35 PM
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What's the deal with the Audio-Dramas?
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  #7747  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:30 AM
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Do we have a final say on the silithid>aquir origin ?

From what I've read it seems that aquir were created from/based on the silithid, by the Old Gods.

Are the Silithid native from Azeroth ? Did the Old Gods somehow corrupt a vast swath of the bugoïd Wild Gods and warped their spawn into their servants ?

It seem from the new lore on the shaping of Draenor that the "degradation" of giant elemental-ish creatures into smaller and "fleshier" creatures is also present outside of Azeroth despite the absence of mention of anything like a curse of flesh over there.

Is that explained ? Do ogres crawl out of the corpse of gronns like the dwarves from the corpse of Ymir ? And what about orcs ?
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  #7748  
Old 12-24-2017, 03:22 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morvant View Post
Do we have a final say on the silithid>aquir origin ?

From what I've read it seems that aquir were created from/based on the silithid, by the Old Gods.

Are the Silithid native from Azeroth ? Did the Old Gods somehow corrupt a vast swath of the bugoïd Wild Gods and warped their spawn into their servants ?

It seem from the new lore on the shaping of Draenor that the "degradation" of giant elemental-ish creatures into smaller and "fleshier" creatures is also present outside of Azeroth despite the absence of mention of anything like a curse of flesh over there.

Is that explained ? Do ogres crawl out of the corpse of gronns like the dwarves from the corpse of Ymir ? And what about orcs ?
As per Chronicle Volume 1, the aqir spawned directly from the Old Gods alongside the n'raqi (faceless one). After the fall of Azj'Aqir, the aqir split into three colonies that evolved into mantid, nerubians, and qiraji. Currently it seems like the silithid are just an offshoot of the qiraji.

As per Chronicle Volume 2, ogres and orcs are descended from Grond, an elemental giant that was created by Aggramar to combat giant plant creatures called Sporemounds and their plant hivemind, the Evergrowth, on ancient Draenor. While Grond and the Sporemounds were fighting, pieces of their bodies fell off and became colossals and genesaur, respectively. Grond was killed by the last Sporemound, Botaan, but the colossals continued fighting Botaan and the genesaur for millennia. During these battles, pieces of the colossals' bodies also broke off and became magnaron. The colossals later sacrificed themselves to kill Botaan in a massive explosion that also killed the Evergrowth. Spores from the Sporemound's body drifted back to Draenor and clung to the hides of the magnaron, causing some of them to devolve into gronn. Some gronn in turn degenerated into ogron, who devolved into ogres, who devolved into orcs. Other spores from Botaan's body settled in Draenor's forests and gave sentience to plant life, creating creatures as podlings, sporelings, and botani. The magnaron, gronn, and ogron became known as Breakers, while the plant creatures became known as Primals.
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  #7749  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:29 PM
Morvant Morvant is offline

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Thanks.

I was under the impression that the aquir were enslaved and that the n'raqi were their overseer and the real spawn of the Old Gods.

So there is a degeneration going on Draenor. It's not just big creatures getting blown up into smaller ones. Except here the source of this "curse of flesh" is a group of very aggressive treants and ancients instead of void squids.

Any link at all between the Primals and the Void Lords/Old Gods ?
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  #7750  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:41 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Any link at all between the Primals and the Void Lords/Old Gods ?
Not that we know of.
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