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  #7201  
Old 10-27-2018, 03:24 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
i realize this is an illegal word here, But Baine is a Cuck.
As he is unmarried this is Technically Untrue
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  #7202  
Old 10-27-2018, 05:25 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
i realize this is an illegal word here, But Baine is a Cuck.
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As he is unmarried this is Technically Untrue

I think it would be hilarious if they revealed he had been married at one time and introduced in-game a small tauren named "Baine's wife's son".
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  #7203  
Old 10-27-2018, 06:03 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Alliance Purge Squads are no more, they are now called Despoilers. Also on the Alliance side its mentioned the Vulpera are moving arms for the Horde, so to further explain why they're targeted.
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  #7204  
Old 10-27-2018, 06:48 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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time to hear the horde complain about how that makes the alliance less evil
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  #7205  
Old 10-27-2018, 10:42 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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There goes that moral grayness.
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  #7206  
Old 10-28-2018, 04:02 AM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
There goes that moral grayness.
Lmao it's not ever happening.

It can't happen without the setting going even more sideways than it already has.
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  #7207  
Old 10-28-2018, 05:20 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Oh, I’d say there’s still some potential for Gray’s Morality on the Alliance.

This Night Warrior thing, if done right, has some excellent potential. It’s not working out so well now, but I think there may be some long term consequences that may get......... interesting. Tyrande says that the Night Warrior must be “sated.” So, does that mean she is compelled to homicide? And when this War is over, can this Night Warrior be turned off? If not, things will be positively juicy.

I also still have hopes for Alleria and the Sunwell. And for Jaina, though her restraint after Dazar’Alor would discourage those hopes. Then again, by that point the Zandalari aren’t fully into the Horde yet (it’s just going to drive them to that point). More importantly, Jaina has no personal quarrel with the Zandalari (though I imagine they have one with her now). We’ll see how things go should she go up against Rexxar or maybe Thrall. Or Derek for that matter.
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  #7208  
Old 10-28-2018, 06:44 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Oh, I’d say there’s still some potential for Gray’s Morality on the Alliance.

This Night Warrior thing, if done right, has some excellent potential. It’s not working out so well now, but I think there may be some long term consequences that may get......... interesting. Tyrande says that the Night Warrior must be “sated.” So, does that mean she is compelled to homicide? And when this War is over, can this Night Warrior be turned off? If not, things will be positively juicy.

I also still have hopes for Alleria and the Sunwell. And for Jaina, though her restraint after Dazar’Alor would discourage those hopes. Then again, by that point the Zandalari aren’t fully into the Horde yet (it’s just going to drive them to that point). More importantly, Jaina has no personal quarrel with the Zandalari (though I imagine they have one with her now). We’ll see how things go should she go up against Rexxar or maybe Thrall. Or Derek for that matter.
There are already shades of grayness () in Zuldazar, especially thanks to Umbric and his Void shenanigans. The removal of the Purge Squads is very, very unfortunate by itself, but then again, the whole thing came without any built up and absolutely out of nowhere, making it feel way too cartoonish and ultimately foolish rather than morally conflicted to the many. And who knows, perhaps we will get to see them eventually after phase, working as a proper build up, passes.
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  #7209  
Old 10-28-2018, 07:02 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
There are already shades of grayness () in Zuldazar, especially thanks to Umbric and his Void shenanigans. The removal of the Purge Squads is very, very unfortunate by itself, but then again, the whole thing came without any built up and absolutely out of nowhere, making it feel way too cartoonish and ultimately foolish rather than morally conflicted to the many. And who knows, perhaps we will get to see them eventually after phase, working as a proper build up, passes.
The problem with purge squads is that it was just senseless. I don't mind the Alliance having a few extremists doing questionable stuff, but attacking the vulpera is tactically idiotic.

I particularly like what Umbric is doing. While it's very questionable, it still shows him as someone being careful to not have things going out of control, I like that balance between doing dirty stuff but not going so far.

(But I dislike that void elves are just being portrayed as elves that use the void... Still no depth to them).
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  #7210  
Old 10-28-2018, 02:53 PM
kobebyarlant kobebyarlant is offline

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Velves have really grown on me in BfA. Noble shadow elves defected from holy elves that serve evil, er, “moral greyness” is a pretty interesting twist on conventions.
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  #7211  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:45 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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The Horde reminds me of real world politics when utilitarianism is faced with "we must do this at all costs".

I'd say extremist convervatism but despite Sylvanas actually de facto doing it, it isn't her intention to "go back to the old glorious days of Blackhand and Doomhammer".

(that was actually Thrall's big propaganda, a demagogue utilitarian, go figure)

Thing is, the faction isn't unanimously against Sylvanas like it was with Garrosh. And blizzard is aware of that, and making room for sympathizers to fit in.

So how do you solve the conflict of pro-ruthless extremism (Forsaken politics) and pro-utilitarianism (care for our people/honor/nation and fck the war)?

The simple answer (read: the one thats not going to happen) is a tone-down on the ruthless extremism without backing off from the war.

But the pro-utilitarianism group (ie. pro-Saurfang) wants retribution. Retribution for what Sylvanas did to the Horde. She "desecrated" the Horde.

What they want is a rebellion/mak'gora, and while I think a mak'gora is possible, I don't think a rebellion will happen, for meta reasons. Basically Blizzard not delivering a second MoP.

But how could a mak'gora (or similar solution) happen without completely letting the pro-ruthless extremism group down?

Not only that, but many in the pro-ruthless extremism group are devout fans of Sylvanas.

The best solution I can think of ends up being: The Alliance going full-out military juggernaut and taking everything away from Sylvanas.

She's left with 0 val'kyrs. Maybe even used her banshee form in a way that she can't fight anymore.

The only thing she can do is be a political figure. In that moment, Saurfang saves the Horde from annihilation.

No, he doesn't beat the Alliance. The Alliance still wins. The Horde is just saved from being obliterated.

In that very same moment Vol'jin should return as warchief god incarnate and probably also get on track the story plot of solving the mystery of who the fck cursed Vol'jin and named Sylvanas warchief.
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  #7212  
Old 10-29-2018, 01:40 AM
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https://de.wowhead.com/news=288238/8...lpera-spoilers

Ok, apparently this is why Sylvanas has raised Derek.
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  #7213  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:01 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
Velves have really grown on me in BfA. Noble shadow elves defected from holy elves that serve evil, er, “moral greyness” is a pretty interesting twist on conventions.
While the "noble elf using dark magic" is fun in the surface, the void elves feel like a specialized tactical unit, rather than a "race". A race needs more depth than that, or else it's just a group with a gimmick.

This problem is also present in lightforged draenei and, I fear it'll be the case, in junker gnomes.
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  #7214  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:53 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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It's not like the concept of races was really always that well-developed in Warcraft.
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  #7215  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:59 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
While the "noble elf using dark magic" is fun in the surface, the void elves feel like a specialized tactical unit, rather than a "race". A race needs more depth than that, or else it's just a group with a gimmick.

This problem is also present in lightforged draenei and, I fear it'll be the case, in junker gnomes.
I hope after BfA they start to develop more as a society, perhaps one that's reminiscent of the Dark Elves in Might and Magic, which were a very huge shadow-worshiping society that engaged in diplomacy with the humans and had strong conflict with their more traditional elven cousins. I would really like to know what architecture styles they have, maybe a dark subversion of Blood Elf style or something like Ethereals.

Making them dark sorcerer elves but subverted to be more anti-hero than truly evil would set them apart from the other races.

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It's not like the concept of races was really always that well-developed in Warcraft.
That is also true, how Blizzard defines races is very loose, like how Worgen and Undead aren't really races but afflictions.

Last edited by Lord Grimtale; 10-29-2018 at 03:01 PM..
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  #7216  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:02 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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It's not like the concept of races was really always that well-developed in Warcraft.
I'd like more depth. A culture. Different inner factions. Inner conflict. Any philosophy behind their gimmick. Something that fleshes them out to be more than "special squad". More than one named NPC, at the very least!

I feel really ripped off that highmountain, nightborne and now vulpera (even thought these ones are far behind the others) had whole zones devoted to them, while the Alliance never-before-seen "races" had and still have so little to flesh them out.
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  #7217  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:07 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
time to hear the horde complain about how that makes the alliance less evil
You mean on this forum, or the other forums that you feel compelled to remind us of?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #7218  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:46 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I'd like more depth. A culture. Different inner factions. Inner conflict. Any philosophy behind their gimmick. Something that fleshes them out to be more than "special squad". More than one named NPC, at the very least!
So you want something deliberately uncharacteristic of Warcraft?
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  #7219  
Old 10-29-2018, 04:54 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
So you want something deliberately uncharacteristic of Warcraft?
Nightborne, highmountain and vulpera had it. I'm not asking for anything that Blizzard isn't capable of delivering.
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  #7220  
Old 10-29-2018, 05:36 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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It would be unreasonable for the Void Elves to emerge with an already established culture.

Their culture is mostly Quel'dorei/Sin'dorei culture in the transition to more void presence in it.

The three you mentioned have been there for millennia.
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  #7221  
Old 10-29-2018, 06:08 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
It would be unreasonable for the Void Elves to emerge with an already established culture.

Their culture is mostly Quel'dorei/Sin'dorei culture in the transition to more void presence in it.

The three you mentioned have been there for millennia.
True, but they finding their place in the world, having divergent views on their practices, recruiting others, interacting with Alliance races' prejudice and dealing with all the questions around the Void would make a compelling story that is being pushed to the background.
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  #7222  
Old 10-29-2018, 06:42 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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True, but they finding their place in the world, having divergent views on their practices, recruiting others, interacting with Alliance races' prejudice and dealing with all the questions around the Void would make a compelling story that is being pushed to the background.
I'd rather have they invest such time and effort dedicating themselves to other interesting races, like the gnomes.

Gnomes would kiss a goblin to have such a variety of quality portrayal.

Most of the time a gnome character is shown as being either yet another crazy inventor, an unhinged mage or comic relief. Meanwhile 8.0 displayed void elf sorcerers, warriors, rogues and rangers. Each with their own unique characteristics.

Where are the gnome warriors? Murderers? Headhunters? Law enforcers?

I say again, what you ask for void elves is deliberately uncharacteristic for Warcraft.
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  #7223  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I'd rather have they invest such time and effort dedicating themselves to other interesting races, like the gnomes.

Gnomes would kiss a goblin to have such a variety of quality portrayal.

Most of the time a gnome character is shown as being either yet another crazy inventor, an unhinged mage or comic relief. Meanwhile 8.0 displayed void elf sorcerers, warriors, rogues and rangers. Each with their own unique characteristics.

Where are the gnome warriors? Murderers? Headhunters? Law enforcers?

I say again, what you ask for void elves is deliberately uncharacteristic for Warcraft.
Undeliberately uncharacteristic for the Alliance, you mean.

Draenei, worgen, void elves, lightforged draenei, gnomes. All neglected races are Alliance.
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  #7224  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:34 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Draenei are neglected.

M-muh Horde bias
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  #7225  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:46 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Draenei are neglected.

M-muh Horde bias
Historical example. They were until WoD.
Blizzard waited "only" four expansions to give them attention.

And now they are being forgotten again, exactly when we need to see what is their new role now that the Legion is gone and their lightforged cousins decided to stay. They couldn't even be remembered during the War of Thorns or the new Darkshore battlefront, despite living next door.
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