Let's nip this right in the bud.

This wasn't Cantus's decision. This was a staff decision.

I cast my vote. I wrote up the charges. I carried out the ban. Someone else will handle the behind the scenes clean-up. I made the announcement.

As long as we're going on record, Anansi stands with the mods on this. He was an obnoxious jerk who responded to each of the many olive branches I offered him with flaming and almost incoherent rage. I don't know what you liked about him, but I'm glad he's gone.

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On the forum I manage we turn a blind eye on permabanned people that come back under another name after a while, IF they behave.
If they start shit up again (it happened once) they get the full whack-a-mole IP ban treatment.

Whether you agree or disagree with the ban, you're welcome to voice your opinion. However, (a) be respectful to other posters even if they disagree with you and (b) don't single out members of the mod/admin team for a decision we took as a team.

I think one of the biggest problems with SoL banning is Slowpoke set a standard of ban evading, multiple accounts. ect to get around it (Disclosure, I was against Slows ban due to how it was handled as well. In his case, if I recall, he followed what he was told and got banned anyway).

Now upholding a permaban just feels... targeted. Or at least hypocritical to a certain degree. And yes, Im aware they kinda just gave up trying to keep him out.

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Fucking Epic :X

I've read your concerns (I've snipped most of your post for the sake of brevity, sorry), and while it is not currently our stated practice to give posters a final warning (In the strictest sense, we only need to give three. Hammerbrew surpassed that number by quite a bit), I'm willing to discuss the merit of such a change to the rules.

Imo that was just a part of his personality and dare I say charm, some Brits have that "fuck you and your mum" thing going on and I never found it offensive. It was mostly a banter sort of thing, yeah sometimes he got mad and perhaps he should get some moderation for that but honestly I prefer people who get mad than who are coolly provocative and intentionally malicious like Kak and some others can be at times.

Most importantly regardless if I like or don't like Hammer, a progression of bans (number of steps and the steepness of those tbd by the mods) and a final warning are absolutely necessary as I see it so we have a fair and correction oriented moderation system.

I get that breed of British banter, and appreciate it in most cases. Hammerbrew's vengeful and xenophobic slurring against anyone who ever disagreed with or contradicted him wasn't exactly banter, though, was it? It was just hate.

K may be an ass, but he's willing to talk on a coherent level. He doesn't resort to flaming and shit-flinging whenever someone pisses him off or criticizes his behavior. He can be argued with. Hammerbrew couldn't.

From what I've read of the reports Kellick posted, everything except the final warning followed this formula.

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This place is taking an interesting turn. Can't say I am fond of it.

Can you help me understand your concerns? Because I'm honestly puzzled.

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I very much agree.

And in fact I feel the exact opposite as Anansi. I think the anger and such can be reasoned with and the malicious posters ala Kak cant be. Kak will "discuss" but only to use it as a way to further twist a knife.

Hammers type of poster will always be far more approachable and willing to discuss things with.*

*Again, in this situation Kak is used as an example. Im not (currently) calling for action, though I do believe a conversation needs to be had regarding hostile posting styles and why some are addressed and others arent, despite it (as C and I can attest to) being a matter of opinion on which one is worse.

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Fucking Epic :X

Well, good to know you've got your mouth glued to Cucktus little cockhead. Kellick, you can permanently go fuck yourself, I've got no more respect for you.

Enough is fucking enough, your partisan ways are fucking disgusting and utterly loathsome. Who is next to be purged to purify your echo chamber? Gani? Frost? Myself?

Posters like Kek-Galdus, Genya, Gurzog and Yog is way, way worse than anything Hammer has written in anger.

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Say no to genocide!
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That's really strange. I simply can't agree.

I mean, K won't ever concede that's he's wrong, sure, but his logic is approachable and the fallacies can be pretty easily identified and isolated. Hammerbrew refused even to engage on rational terms, resorting instead to emotion, which is to say anger.

Maybe Hammer was more willing to talk things out with people like you, nonane, and the angry elf over there, but to anyone he disliked (myself included) he was absolutely unapproachable.

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Yask, seriously, don't do this to yourself, take a break and decompress.

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Exactly that though.

Emotion and logic, despite what people say, arent different. Not really. Hammer may make appeals to emotion in times of anger and react with anger at times I personally wouldnt, but that isnt a bad thing as long as you can get them to admit the possibility of being wrong, and as long as you can empathize and understand the anger enough to influence it using logic. Emotion is actually a fairly big component of how we think and understand things.

You cant do anything with someone who wont admit they are wrong, no matter how approachable.

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Fucking Epic :X

I think this actually clarifies a lot. Hammerbrew was extremely aggressive and blunt, while Kakwakas is snide. Both can be disruptive, but individuals might be bothered more by one or the other.

Personally, I think Hammerbrew should have been warned rather than banned outright. While he flew off the handle way too easily, I don't think he's alone in that. I will say that I often enjoyed talking to him about some games, so I am biased. I also acknowledge that he was unnecessarily vicious to some posters.

Not challenging the mods here, just giving out my opinion. I understand you guys have a tough balancing act.

I still think that the existence of politics threads acts as a locus for bad behavior, and we're probably better off deleting them. However, isolating such threads has worked better than I thought it would (which is not to say that I think the current situation is optimal).

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I disagree and do not find Hammer to be anymore vile than some other postets.

Meh. The guy constantly insulted individuals and groups alike, while at the same time acting like he was victimized whenever anyone said anything back to him. You don't get to be the 'celebrate dead children because they're associated with the political opposition' guy, and then complain when someone is sarcastic in your direction. He had long lost interest in any form of general discussion, only in angrily yelling and insulting anyone who expressed even the slightest disagreement. Also, he wrote 'of' instead of 'have'.

His abrasive behavior genuinely almost drove me off the forum more than once.

That one I will agree with.

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This is not a signature.

Author of the Pink Engine.

Well you're just a delight, aren't you?

No, partisanship was not part of the decision to ban Hammerbrew. Merely agreeing with him on various issues is not grounds for moderation.

You know what is though?

It's almost as if the strong/far right posters think Hammer did nothing wrong, whereas the more left/centrist posters are saying "Yeah, he was actually a bit of a cunt."

You know what got me about Hammer that I guess nobody really cares about? The bit where he said that the only way people could like curry was because liberal "must respect Mooselimb stuff" or some BS like that. Either the guy really, really hates curry, or he has no appreciation for history, and cannot comprehend anyone liking anything vaguely Indian/Middle Eastern without being forced. Which certainly has implications.

Oh, and was the Fuck every single Muslim because some Muslims commit terrorism, "But Breivik wasn't really that wrong for murdering people because I hate them" genuine? If so, yeah, that's kinda apologising for terrorism. That's the kinda shit that should get people banned.

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"Terrorism, a job for lazy people and wankers"

If I die, blame it on BfA

Well that's the trick. I never managed it with Hammerbrew.

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Sucks to see him go but it is what it is I guess. Can't ever remember having much quarrel with him and he'd least respond to my posts with more insight than just saying 'Ok', but then again I've started to become less engaged with the goings-on here for something like that to ever happen.

I'm not exactly sure how one is less bad than the other.

All I have to say is you guys (the mod-team) are dicks for deciding to do this shit when it's almost midnight over here in the Yurop, on a sunday of all days. That's bad planning. I won't be able to witness the meltdown first-hand. So thanks for that, Kellick.

No fucking way, I am not backing down.
Either Cucktus is permanently removed from any position of power on this site or Hammer is given a temporary ban or they can just fucking go ahead and hand me a permanent ban because this is war.

Fist they came for Hammer and you applauded. Then they came for Gani and you cheered. Then they came for Frost and you laughed. Next for the purge was Yaska and you shrugged. Then they came for you because Cucktus has a bleeding arsehole and none was left to say anything.

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Say no to genocide!
Save the Nightborne!

Man, Noitora really got under your skin, didn't he? If it's any consolation, I still care about werewolves.

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