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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest, most powerful and competent Warchief?
Blackhand the Destroyer 1 2.38%
Orgrim Doomhammer 6 14.29%
Ner'zhul, the Elder Shaman 3 7.14%
Thrall, son of Durotan 29 69.05%
Garrosh Hellscream 3 7.14%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:41 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Blackhand didn't conquer Stormwind... Did he?

Anyway, regardless whether Gul'dan really manipulated him or Blackhand WANTED him to think he manipulates things, The Destroyer was still a competent strategist that outlined at least two-three successful campaigns.
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  #27  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:47 AM
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I'm torn between Thrall and Blackhand. On the one hand, Thrall was very ideological and capable, turning a bunch of refugees into a full-fledged nation. On the other hand, he had to completely idiotic for some of the dumber WoW story elements to play out the way they did. Blackhand was a lot less glorious, but he's the only warchief to be consistently competent and unwavering in his goals.
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  #28  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:48 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Am I the only one who thinks Garrosh would get a bit more votes, had this been the Cataclysm?
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  #29  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Garrosh would get a bit more votes, had this been the Cataclysm?
Garrosh is definitely the most interesting. If you think of him as someone with severe mental problems, he becomes a really sympathetic character in a weird way.
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  #30  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:53 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I'd say Ogrim. He didn't take the demon blood, he snatched leadership from Blackhand who was a puppet to Gul'dan and the Legion, and WOULD'VE beaten the Alliance had it not been for Gul'dan. He also managed to weaken the Shadow Council and made use of Death Knights. Also, he was one of the few warchiefs who took advantage of the humans' racism towards the Orcs.
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  #31  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:57 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Blackhand didn't conquer Stormwind... Did he?
That's a good question; the timeline is iffy at the end of the First War. These are the events we have to work with:

A: Killing of Medivh (Gul'dan falls into coma)
B: Coup of Doomhammer over Blackhand
C: Assassination of King Llane and Fall of Stormwind Keep

Is this the chronological order? We know the following-

* Medivh must die before Blackhand dies and before Stormwind Keep falls.
* As Medivh dies, Gul'dan falls into his coma.
* Garona leaves the "A" event before Medivh is defeated; Lothar stays until the end. Garona must reach Stormwind and kill King Llane before it falls, and Stormwind must fall before Lothar can return from killing Medivh. She kills Llane because of Gul'dan's brainwashed orders.

And we get this line from The Last Guardian, with the caveat that most of TLG isn't canon anymore:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision that Khadgar and Garona see of the Fall of Stormwind
“Bad news, sire,” said Garona, approaching the King’s side of the table. “The various clans are working together in this assault, unified under the Blackhand the Destroyer. None of them will betray the others until after Stormwind has fallen. Gul’dan is bringing up his warlocks by nightfall. Until then, the Blackrock
clan will be trying to take the Eastern Wall.”
^ Keep in mind that this is impossible even under the old lore, since Gul'dan shouldn't be bringing up his warlocks or doing anything else after the point that Medivh is killed - being comatose and all. Which begs the question of how Garona was given the order to kill King Llane... did Gul'dan have a dead man's switch on her brain that would've been automatically activated if he lost consciousness through magical means?

But in my opinion, even if it was Doomhammer in control during the final assault on Stormwind Keep, it was Blackhand who set the Horde up in control of Stormwind's countryside so that the Keep and city were the only things left. That whole thing you describe about strategist versus tactician. Doomhammer was his tactician.


EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Garrosh would get a bit more votes, had this been the Cataclysm?
If so, it was Thrall who chose to put him in that position!

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-10-2013 at 09:00 AM..
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2013, 09:15 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle
But in my opinion, even if it was Doomhammer in control during the final assault on Stormwind Keep, it was Blackhand who set the Horde up in control of Stormwind's countryside so that the Keep and city were the only things left. That whole thing you describe about strategist versus tactician. Doomhammer was his tactician.
Yes, Blackhand was the one who underlined and planned the long and steady campaign, organized the front and the resourses for it, but you still have to give credit to Doomhammer for winning major battles.

My HC is that Doomhammer's very own image of winning a couple of battles and then killing the king and capturing the capital as ENDING THE WAR is what influenced his Second War campaign, where he considered that Alliance would fall together with the fall of Capital City and the death of Lothar. He only thought about the immediate resources needed to invade Lordaeron and left the rest to his generals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle
If so, it was Thrall who chose to put him in that position!
Yeah, but it was still a reluctant choice, while Garrosh managed to do a lot of things in the Cataclysm that Thrall was unable to do for ages. Especially lessening the whole "wood for Orgrimmar" problem.
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  #33  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:18 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
and WOULD'VE beaten the Alliance had it not been for Gul'dan.
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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
My HC is that Doomhammer's very own image of winning a couple of battles and then killing the king and capturing the capital as ENDING THE WAR is what influenced his Second War campaign, where he considered that Alliance would fall together with the fall of Capital City and the death of Lothar.
Guards? AAAAAHHHH!! (dies)

~ ~ ~

It's over! Stand down, humans!

My king!!

Above all else, Turalyon, he was a proud warrior. Remember him as such.

He was an old man with no military training.

I said "proud".

I name these lands Durotar in honor of my fallen friend - it is a land that is now safe. We have no further quarrel with these humans. I now order you to leave these continents in peace, Turalyon and Khadgar. I pray we never have to battle each other again. Farewell, warriors.



Farewell, warriors. Get your army off my lawn.

I do see your point. But my soldiers that are surrounding your weakened army right now... some of them are pretty mad.

Did you tell them that I killed their king?

Well no. Not yet.

Do so. That should satisfy them.

Alleria and the elves won't be happy about this. You killed so many of them.

Well, tell her about how I killed the king here.

Terenas wasn't her king. Anasterian is.

(grumble grumble) Fine! Where is he?

Silvermoon.

(grumble) I didn't plan to go back that way, they have an impenetrable magical barrier. I'll send Rexxar back with you to assassinate him.

Khadgar, I will need help getting past their magical barrier and to their king.

And be wary, the Knights of the Silver Hand are patrolling up somewhere in Lordaeron. You'll need to get past them.

(sigh) Aren't they humans? Didn't I just kill their king?!

Well, a lot of them yes. But they also have an archbishop. He's rather old.

This makes no sense, Warchief! I've played human chess before. You DON'T have to kill the bishop to make the enemy surrender!

Indeed. Turalyon, you must explain this to the bishop.

(cough) The path to Light's Hope Chapel is blocked by Stromgarde soldiers and their king. The sea route is blocked by Lord Admiral Proudmoore and the combined Alliance navy... Proudmoore's like a "king" of Kul Tiras.

Grrrr, you humans and your infuriatingly high number of kings! Wasn't this king I killed here in charge of ALL of them?!!!

Well, technically Lord Lothar is in charge, he has about half of our army in the Arathi Highlands right now. He's from Stormwind.

Isn't Stormwind dead?! From the First War?

Yes, we killed that king months ago! Go tell this "Lothar" that he has to stop fighting us and must leave all the lands we claim. Honestly, what kind of operation have you humans been running here?

Oyeah? Well imma king too! Ye invaded me people and kill'd me griffons!

(swings at Kurdran)

(dodges, then flies away)

After him!

Humans! This is unacceptible! I have taken your capital city and killed your king! As your conquering overlord, I order you to go out and bring me that dwarf king's head.

Technically, Kurdran's only one of the dwarf kings. You didn't start fights with any of the others, did you?

There's more than one?!! SPIRIT OF ASS, YOU GUYS SUCK!!

Fuck you all. I'm neutral now.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 08-28-2013 at 08:18 AM..
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:26 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Fuck you all. I'm neutral now.
It makes so much sense if you put it like that.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:34 AM
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I'll say Doomhammer. All he did to protect his people was honorable, besides backstabbing his antecessor, which was necessary and well, he had the chance and took it.

He ended Blackhand's reign (or should I say Gul'dan? anyway), fixed the Shadow Council problem whitin the Horde and was the best Warchief military-wise imho.

In honor to him, I think that all Warchiefs should use his black plate armor.

After him I would say Thrall (for reuniting and leading his people in an unknown land), Garrosh (despite all the genocidal madness, he strenghtened the Horde), Blackhand (great warrior and general, but meh) and Ner'zhul (had good intentions at first, but still...).
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:38 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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  #37  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post

He was an old man with no military training.
Wasn't there a flashback where Medivh, Lane and Lothar were in Stranglethorn and Llane wielded an axe?

He was probably pretty tough when he was younger.
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Thrall did the most good, but Orgrim is my favorite.
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  #39  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:12 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Wasn't there a flashback where Medivh, Lane and Lothar were in Stranglethorn and Llane wielded an axe?

He was probably pretty tough when he was younger.
Terenas.
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:20 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Terenas.
Why would he be in stranglethorn with Medivh and Lothar?

Llane was Medivh's buddy, not Terenas.
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  #41  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:21 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Why would he be in stranglethorn with Medivh and Lothar?

Llane was Medivh's buddy, not Terenas.
Baron's joke was about Terenas. Why the hell did you bring out Llane at all?
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:25 AM
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Go'el. He transformed the Horde from an imprisoned population of lethargic layabouts into a superpower.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:38 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Thrall. He took a defeated people, reignited their spiritual heritage and formed them into a superpower. He also turned the Horde from a literal horde of demonic puppets and killers into a multicultural alliance of the downtrodden.
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2013, 03:31 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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For those of you praising Doomhammer, I'll just assume you're basing it on his Warcraft III incarnation that actually had him almost winning his war. I'd still vote Thrall, based on him crafting the Horde up from defeat into a superpower.
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2013, 03:32 PM
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This thread is missing my man Vol'jin.
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  #46  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:39 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Thrally wally!

He made everyone think the orcs were just big green teddy bears and they left them alone for long enough time for the Horde to become a super power. He saved a bunch of cool races from extinction and helped save the world a couple of times.
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  #47  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:06 PM
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Thrall, for all the reasons Grackle enumerated.

And bravo to icon theater!
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  #48  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:51 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Thrall.
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  #49  
Old 07-11-2013, 04:24 AM
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George W. Bu-

...wait, sorry, I read the title wrong (and am not Stephen Colbert).

I'll say Thrall. He had some issues (disputes with the NElves, putting Garrosh in command as Warchief), but as others have said, he managed to bring the Orcs out of their lethargy and create a superpower on another continent that was important in saving the world at least once.
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  #50  
Old 07-15-2013, 11:58 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Did you tell them that I killed their king?
...Maybe Aiden's secret plan was for Orgrim to attack one king after another, until HE is the only king in the Alliance - after which all the ally forces have to answer to Alterac and crush all that remains of the Horde!
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