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  #57826  
Old 05-08-2019, 02:11 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The "totally exonerating" unredacted version of the Mueller report is now being withheld by way of "executive privilege."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...mueller-report

I just don't understand why conservatives hate America so much that they support this guy still. He is tearing the Constitution and the country apart.
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  #57827  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:52 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/u...n-encinia.html

They fucking murdered her and got away with it.
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  #57828  
Old 05-14-2019, 01:31 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The "totally exonerating" unredacted version of the Mueller report is now being withheld by way of "executive privilege."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...mueller-report

I just don't understand why conservatives hate America so much that they support this guy still. He is tearing the Constitution and the country apart.
You understand that its a Supreme Court ruling that prevents that, right?

That, as has been reported multiple times, the report was offered to congress fully unredacted except for grand jury info.

Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

Barr cannot hand it over. Even if Congress orders.

Barr can, at his discretion, petition the court to allow it, but there is nothing saying the court would agree. But heres the kicker. Congress can make the same plea. The unsealing of grand jury material is a big deal, with supreme court dictated rules that long predate Trump.

What congress is asking for is illegal, and no amount of media posturing and twisting will make them the good guys here.

But, I mean, I just know what im talking about, instead of running rabid like a conspiracy theorist.

But, I mean, hey. You can try for impeachment. That'll make it more likely to get access, but still not a certainty.

You need to go after the Judicial, not Executive, to get what you want.

Tell your party to stop barking at the wind and actually do something about it, instead of just making noise.
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  #57829  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:35 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
You understand that its a Supreme Court ruling that prevents that, right?

That, as has been reported multiple times, the report was offered to congress fully unredacted except for grand jury info.

Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

Barr cannot hand it over. Even if Congress orders.

Barr can, at his discretion, petition the court to allow it, but there is nothing saying the court would agree. But heres the kicker. Congress can make the same plea. The unsealing of grand jury material is a big deal, with supreme court dictated rules that long predate Trump.

What congress is asking for is illegal, and no amount of media posturing and twisting will make them the good guys here.

But, I mean, I just know what im talking about, instead of running rabid like a conspiracy theorist.

But, I mean, hey. You can try for impeachment. That'll make it more likely to get access, but still not a certainty.

You need to go after the Judicial, not Executive, to get what you want.

Tell your party to stop barking at the wind and actually do something about it, instead of just making noise.
Fake news. That doesn't really cover Congressional inquiries and it definitely doesn't cover the White House. Stop covering for your party's anti-American and treasonous activities.

By the way, your governor is also apparently a "conspiracy theorist" now.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:37 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Fake news. That doesn't really cover Congressional inquiries and it definitely doesn't cover the White House. Stop covering for your party's anti-American and treasonous activities.

By the way, your governor is also apparently a "conspiracy theorist" now.
It absolutely does. Past special councils had the same issue, although due to a variety of reasons, the judicial branch approved congress to get the information. Scalia, IIRC, voted to approved the unveiling of info to congress under the idea of "Congress needs to see it under the circumstances of impeachment" in one of them.

Which is why I mentioned impeachment.

Grand Jury info is sealed. Period. Congress does not get to say otherwise.
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  #57831  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:59 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I'm curious to see how this tariff thing with China plays out. Out of all Trump's platforms, this was the only one that actually turned Republican aims in a different direction, and it's the only policy that could leave a lasting impact on Republican leanings once Trump withers away.

If this trade thing was going to happen, I'd have preferred it happen under an actual leader instead of the Trumptard, but other third-party candidates who'd suggested it in the past hadn't been loud or stupid enough to win.

I guess we'll see how it goes, if it'll break us or if it'll turn into a party platform.
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  #57832  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:10 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I'm curious to see how this tariff thing with China plays out. Out of all Trump's platforms, this was the only one that actually turned Republican aims in a different direction, and it's the only policy that could leave a lasting impact on Republican leanings once Trump withers away.

If this trade thing was going to happen, I'd have preferred it happen under an actual leader instead of the Trumptard, but other third-party candidates who'd suggested it in the past hadn't been loud or stupid enough to win.

I guess we'll see how it goes, if it'll break us or if it'll turn into a party platform.
The greatest legacy of Trump will probably be the way elections are run. He has basically pulled out all the stops, being whatever was required of him in the moment. He was an extremist when he needed to stand out and thin the herd of other party candidates then he continuously turned more and more moderate since he know an extremist can't win.

And it worked. A relative outsider won against all odds, others will take note of that. Expect fluid and pandering politicians who will say anything to get elected while meaning nothing. This might eventually open the door to a true extremist because people will become desperate for someone who actually means what they say.
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  #57833  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:19 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
The greatest legacy of Trump will probably be the way elections are run. He has basically pulled out all the stops, being whatever was required of him in the moment. He was an extremist when he needed to stand out and thin the herd of other party candidates then he continuously turned more and more moderate since he know an extremist can't win.

And it worked. A relative outsider won against all odds, others will take note of that. Expect fluid and pandering politicians who will say anything to get elected while meaning nothing. This might eventually open the door to a true extremist because people will become desperate for someone who actually means what they say.
That has been the case for years now. Republicans can do whatever they want. Steal, kill, rape. Their idiotic voters will vote for them regardless as long as they promise to run America further into the ground. In this nation, we only have one party that is held accountable.
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  #57834  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:49 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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That has been the case for years now. Republicans can do whatever they want. Steal, kill, rape. Their idiotic voters will vote for them regardless as long as they promise to run America further into the ground. In this nation, we only have one party that is held accountable.
Are you talking about the Kennedys or the Clintons?

Kakwakas, you are nowhere near as cynical as we all should be. That Republican hatred is great, but you're entirely too trusting of/apologetic for those donkeys.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 05-17-2019 at 08:51 AM..
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  #57835  
Old 05-17-2019, 05:10 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Are you talking about the Kennedys or the Clintons?

Kakwakas, you are nowhere near as cynical as we all should be. That Republican hatred is great, but you're entirely too trusting of/apologetic for those donkeys.
It's not my fault you believe in conspiracy theories about pizza places and Martian sex slaves. Actual controversies result in D's stepping down, even when it's clearly a political hit job like what happened to Franken.
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  #57836  
Old 05-19-2019, 05:00 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Theres a couple of different studies and polls out, from different people and sources reaching the same conclusion.

The left has shifted far left and are extremists. Not all thee left. But large portions.
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  #57837  
Old 05-19-2019, 05:35 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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"Far" is always a matter of perspective and where you stand.

Compared to the rest of the world, the American left is usually moderate.
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  #57838  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:09 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Theres a couple of different studies and polls out, from different people and sources reaching the same conclusion.

The left has shifted far left and are extremists. Not all thee left. But large portions.
A couple of studies concluded the left has shifted far left and are extremists. Not all, but "large" portions.


Okay. I'm skeptical. You have any links?
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  #57839  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:34 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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"Far" is always a matter of perspective and where you stand.

Compared to the rest of the world, the American left is usually moderate.
Speaking as a Non-American, that's only if you're talking economics. In regards to some social policy and particularly immigration you guys are out on your own on this one.
Look, nobody but you guys entertains the idea of amnesty. Canada sure as hell doesn't accept that and Europe can't even agree to letting in temporary asylum seekers, let alone Amnesty for illegals. Outside of the New World much of the world has right of blood citizenship (including many European countries). Right now in Canada the current head of the Tories intends on ending birthright citizenship and he's regarded as a milquetoast wet pool noodle, not a Trumpian populist. Also both Canada and Australia have what's known as the Points Based System whereas you guys still have a green card lottery an out of date garbage system.
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  #57840  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:09 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Speaking as a Non-American, that's only if you're talking economics. In regards to some social policy and particularly immigration you guys are out on your own on this one.
Look, nobody but you guys entertains the idea of amnesty. Canada sure as hell doesn't accept that and Europe can't even agree to letting in temporary asylum seekers, let alone Amnesty for illegals. Outside of the New World much of the world has right of blood citizenship (including many European countries). Right now in Canada the current head of the Tories intends on ending birthright citizenship and he's regarded as a milquetoast wet pool noodle, not a Trumpian populist. Also both Canada and Australia have what's known as the Points Based System whereas you guys still have a green card lottery an out of date garbage system.
There's more to politics than immigration and economics.

Healthcare for example.
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  #57841  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:21 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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A couple of studies concluded the left has shifted far left and are extremists. Not all, but "large" portions.


Okay. I'm skeptical. You have any links?
Since I dont want to go digging on my cell phone.


Easiest answer.

But one from PEW

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-extreme-left/

of course, there have been ongoing signs of this for nearly a decade

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...d-further-left (not mention in the video I linked)

Theres actually another survey I wanted to link but cant find now, not American based.

It had a massive "Far right" population but called anyone right of center right "far right", and listed like, 5 "left wing" positions before far left, that was perfect to show how much of the modern left views things, because it wasnt a parody.

Ill have to keep looking.
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  #57842  
Old 05-30-2019, 06:58 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Since I dont want to go digging on my cell phone.

https://youtu.be/6grXCooL3-M

Easiest answer.

But one from PEW

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-extreme-left/

of course, there have been ongoing signs of this for nearly a decade

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...d-further-left (not mention in the video I linked)

Theres actually another survey I wanted to link but cant find now, not American based.

It had a massive "Far right" population but called anyone right of center right "far right", and listed like, 5 "left wing" positions before far left, that was perfect to show how much of the modern left views things, because it wasnt a parody.

Ill have to keep looking.
I think your looking for this one done by Gallup Poll? I know it only because it's tied to a similiar article. Infact, compared to minorities White Progs are even more left than them. The main shift is largely due to a well do to Prog activist subgroup.
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  #57843  
Old 06-01-2019, 11:25 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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I mean, generally speaking I don't know whether I'd call the US Democrats left wing. Keep in mind that I am kinda speaking from a non US Western democratic perspective. I'll focus on the UK for now, but you can pretty much see a similar pattern in most other Western European countries, and even in Commonwealth countries like New Zealand and Australia. This is simply to provide further context on what the Left is in conventional political philosophy, and what it means to be Left Wing.

The US Democrats are certainly to the right of the British Conservatives on many issues. The Tories have been responsible for the highest tax rate in the UK for years, for example.

They are hard on immigration, but otherwise they'd definitely be considered socially liberal in US terms, in that abortion and lgbtq+ rights are not a bone of contention for them, and in fact a good majority of their voters support those things. The same thing with climate science, and the welfare state, which on paper at least they are committed to upholding. They are however pretty Thatcherian neoliberal.

The Tories are not in favour of the death penalty, and they played a key role in making gay marriage legal in 2011(although Labour had decriminalized homosexuality in 1967, and the UK had Civil Partnerships which was gay marriage in all but name officially, since marriage was considered a purely religious thing before 2011).

The Tories are also the most authoritarian mainstream party. Their stance on security and surveillance can get pretty scary. They have implemented a bunch of draconian internet policies in the 9 years that they have been in power. This is why no Brit would ever truly consider them to be socially liberal, though they are that by US standards in many ways.

Of course, Northern Ireland is an exception, where the ruling party is much more socially conservative(although the voters are not, but the Unionist vote goes towards that party so that it isnt split, given that the far-left Irish Republican vote is just neck and neck with them).

On the other hand, the most pro immigration party in the UK is a centre-to centre left one, the Liberal Democrats. They have been recently more centre left than centrist, though, given that they have leaned more on their social democratic wings.

The actual Left wing parties in the UK are Labour and the Greens. Labour is pretty much a democratic socialist party, but they are not in favour of free movement(but the Lib Dems are). The Greens are eco-socialists, but they are more of a left wing protest vote than an established party(since their stance on defence is pretty naive and their nuclear power stance is also bizzare).

The Greens and Lib Dems do well when Labour does badly, but because of FPTP, when Labour does badly the Tories win(since the Lib Dems do not contest well in Labour seats in the North of England, but in Tory seats instead). Labour just retains its seats in the North when it does badly but fails to gain seats anywhere else(other than cities where it does well everywhere). The Lib Dems have long run on an anti FPTP platform.

The North of England really hates the Tories, and they can never expect to win over there. Same with Scotland, but Scotland has an actual viable centre left party that advocates for Scottish independence, so Labour is no longer particularly powerful there. Recently Wales too has gotten an increase in support for Plaid Cymru, because of Labour basically killing itself with it's Brexit ambiguity. But for Labour to win, it needs to do well in the South as well. Otherwise, the Tories just walk into parliament, because the centre left vote is split between the Lib Dems, the Greens and Labour in the South. Of course, the emergence of Farage's BXP throws a spanner into this- the Tories can no longer hope to be guaranteed their seats in the South, nor Labour their seats in the North(where any remotely right-leaning person is likely to vote BXP over the Thatcherian Tories despite BXP having as of now no manifesto).

UKIP died after it lurched towards the Far Right with people like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and Carl Benjamin- Farage at least keeps up the appearance of viewing diversity as a strength rather than a weakness, and as such his vote has eaten both into the Tories and UKIP, and Left Wing Brexiteers as well.

But either of these parties would be considered far-left in the US, even under Tony Blair's relative centrism.

To put this in very basic superficial terms, the left wing is democratic socialism. The far left is communism. The centre left is social democracy. The centre is economic and social liberalism. The centre right is liberal capitalism and neoliberalism. The right is patriotic capitalism. The far right is capitalist nationalism and race/class/other supremacists.


Of course, given that both US parties are Big Tent, there are certainly elements of genuine left wing politics in the Democrats.

Last edited by CoDimus the Staunch; 06-01-2019 at 12:00 PM..
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  #57844  
Old 06-02-2019, 11:40 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Another day, another person doxed by the media.
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  #57845  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:12 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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George Nader, one of the people responsible for setting up the meeting in the Seychelles between Erik Prince and Russians, has been arrested for child porn (again).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.dc99c5a8651f

Surely the pizzagate crowd will look into this.
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Old 06-06-2019, 08:31 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Old 06-10-2019, 07:29 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Old 06-10-2019, 08:47 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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A troubling article.

. . . but I wish the author knew what "banana republic" meant. It's not just corruption. The misusage is distracting me more than it should. :-P
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

But otherwise, yes. Troubling.
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  #57849  
Old 06-18-2019, 02:14 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Another month, another right-wing terrorist. Thankfully this one got domed before he could actually hurt anybody. People are having a lot of fun digging through his social media and mocking him.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:26 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Another month, another right-wing terrorist. Thankfully this one got domed before he could actually hurt anybody. People are having a lot of fun digging through his social media and mocking him.
You gotta link too what you're talking about cause sadly in a few days no one will know which one you meant
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