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  #4901  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:14 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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I can live with Capital City being blown up, as long as the Alliance flag waves over the rubble.

Saurfang being a prisoner, and slowly learning about the Alliance and seeing what the other side is really like, should be interesting for the story down the line.

The Stromgarde being an eternal Wintergrasp with no in game conclusion makes me a little salty. I mean, does Danath run away to fight another day as his city is invaded by the Horde, or does the Alliance hold the city but the Horde holds the countryside for their week, and the Horde holds Hammerfall and the Alliance the countryside when the reverse happens? Makes no sense.

Having seen the Zandalari opening, after hearing all of Stormwind was aflame from a separate source, it wasnt as bad as I feared. Jaina came out of it well, they killed poor Halford's wife/sister, and Saurfang interestingly enough didnt seem to want to to back with the Horde team.

This feels like MoP 2: electric boogaloo, but with more Alliance and Horde themed zones than Panda themed zones. After all, MoP opened with
Theramore going up and an unambiguous Alliance defeat to the glory that was Operation: Shieldwall and SoO.

Genn viciously wrekt Jaina with that quote, god damn.

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
YESSSSS

I'm thrilled to see Sylvanas go full Lich King destroyer of worlds.

Back in the day where people were speculating about the idea of Sylvanas becoming a Warchief, one of the conclusions was that it would be probably poorly done because Blizzard wouldn't make a faction leader perform a scorched earth and even raise their own dead. Keep in mind that was before Garrosh.

I would be excited for either Reedeemed Honorable Sylvanas and Full Lich King Sylvanas Destroyer of Worlds, and I'm actually glad it's the latter.

I hope she gets to destroy as many kingdoms and cities and murder characters as possible while she is in power, and I'm not joking. The status quo must be completely obliterated.



Yes, the Horde is getting the better end of the stick and will remain so while the Alliance keeps having no characters with gut and attitude like Sylvanas.

They should make Genn go full Berserk.
I hope those are Horde Kingdoms and characters that get to bear the brunt. Toss Liadrin over the edge since she was busy recruiting for the Horde on the Highlords time! Tsk.

We all know this is going to end with the Alliance winning, Anduin talking down to the Horde from his pedastal about Honour and ending the Horde if they do it again, and then giving the keys to Orgrimmar over to Lorthremar or Baine. The only change will be post 110 Kalimdor and EK will be phased to Red/Blue.

We will see if we lose a pile of Alliance characters to make up for Sylvanas and Nathanos eventually getting theirs. Wonder if they are going to throw Shandris off the edge at Teldrassil, and does Turalyon not show up at Undercity, or did I just miss him?
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"

Last edited by Crazyterran; 04-15-2018 at 12:23 AM..
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  #4902  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:48 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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  #4903  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:59 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
i am quite happy (minus teldrassil because you know i love nelves)
I doubt you're going to be happy by the end. I'm pretty sure we're being set up for an Alliance victory here, and then the Alliance is going to get what it loves most. To be told its bad for actually fighting to win when they actually have a good reason to do so, with some giant tentacle monster laughing at them for defending themselves against an unnecessarily aggressive Horde.

Everyone gets to be miserable!
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  #4904  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:52 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
I hope those are Horde Kingdoms and characters that get to bear the brunt. Toss Liadrin over the edge since she was busy recruiting for the Horde on the Highlords time! Tsk.

We all know this is going to end with the Alliance winning, Anduin talking down to the Horde from his pedastal about Honour and ending the Horde if they do it again, and then giving the keys to Orgrimmar over to Lorthremar or Baine. The only change will be post 110 Kalimdor and EK will be phased to Red/Blue.

We will see if we lose a pile of Alliance characters to make up for Sylvanas and Nathanos eventually getting theirs. Wonder if they are going to throw Shandris off the edge at Teldrassil, and does Turalyon not show up at Undercity, or did I just miss him?
All faction kingdoms and characters, no distinction.
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  #4905  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:29 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I feel like you can't really have grey vs. grey morality faction warring when the Forsaken exist as a thing. At that point, no matter what any other race does the Forsaken are going to top it completely by going balls to the wall evil for the sake of maximum efficiency. Some people will probably see that as still grey when Alliance do bad stuff, but in the end it will never measure up to the lengths the Forsaken are willing to go to win a war.

Probably one of the best examples of a faction war story with grey morality was Southern Barrens, and Forsaken played a very minor role in that. If we had something like that for BfA it would make for a good faction war expansion.
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  #4906  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:30 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
I doubt you're going to be happy by the end. I'm pretty sure we're being set up for an Alliance victory here, and then the Alliance is going to get what it loves most. To be told its bad for actually fighting to win when they actually have a good reason to do so, with some giant tentacle monster laughing at them for defending themselves against an unnecessarily aggressive Horde.

Everyone gets to be miserable!
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  #4907  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:34 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I am not sure what to feel, I mean after 7.2 and KJs death WoW lore has been dead, there might be hope still for it but it is mostly related to thrall taking up the warchief mantle again. But we all know that is gonna happen because of vanillas popularity, and other things. Like they have an opportunity here for that, Sylvanas is literally gonna be a boss (no surprise there, they are even trying to hide it in interviews by going "haha nooo no noo that is totally not gonna happen guys , or wait maaaybeee the possibility is there ;D xD xD ;P"


From my observation of the beta, they are developing characters (specifically lillian voss) to become the character to take over the forsaken leadership (especially after the texts that were datamined about her sympathies with the forsaken, and unlike sylvanas she actually sees them as something else other than meatshields, and doesnt seem to want more people to become forsaken because she knows the pain it can cause them)

Iron Horde into horde was bound to happen, I hope we see all troll tribes join the Horde as well as all orc clans, (and later even the grimtotem/taunka) ALliance should get wildhammer dwarves, mechagnomes or leper gnomes and something else, maybe satyrs or something? Ereda-... no.

Earthen probably.

Nathanos relationship with sylvanas is fucking disgusting homever. While initially he has started to "appreciate" the player character alot more, their relationship is literally nathanos being like "milkies please mommy sylvanas".

Last edited by Gurzog; 04-15-2018 at 09:37 AM..
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  #4908  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:35 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I feel like you can't really have grey vs. grey morality faction warring when the Forsaken exist as a thing. At that point, no matter what any other race does the Forsaken are going to top it completely by going balls to the wall evil for the sake of maximum efficiency. Some people will probably see that as still grey when Alliance do bad stuff, but in the end it will never measure up to the lengths the Forsaken are willing to go to win a war.

Probably one of the best examples of a faction war story with grey morality was Southern Barrens, and Forsaken played a very minor role in that. If we had something like that for BfA it would make for a good faction war expansion.
If only Southern Barrens ended with both Stormwind and Orgrimmar pulverized...

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
I am not sure what to feel, I mean after 7.2 and KJs death WoW lore has been dead, there might be hope still for it but it is mostly related to thrall taking up the warchief mantle again. But we all know that is gonna happen because of vanillas popularity, and other things. Like they have an opportunity here for that, Sylvanas is literally gonna be a boss (no surprise there, they are even trying to hide it in interviews by going "haha nooo no noo that is totally not gonna happen guys , or wait maaaybeee the possibility is there ;D xD xD ;P"
Yes, KJ's death was very climatic while Sargeras' defeat was completely anticlimatic.
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  #4909  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:40 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I think the line about "only one of us wanted this war" from anduin is obviously in the Battle for lordaeron cinematic.

I dislike that baine is unquestionably obedient.

I am 90% certain they are going to go with the "horde wants war coz honorable deaths in combat xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" meme

People have been writing about how "azshara somehow caused the orcs to invade Azeroth" I dont see the connection other than that azshara "made BL aware of azeroth" but he probably knew about the thing either way, But that saying is like saying "Garrosh destroyed the burning legion and saved the universe".

Last edited by Gurzog; 04-15-2018 at 09:44 AM..
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  #4910  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:26 AM
Temo Temo is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Probably one of the best examples of a faction war story with grey morality was Southern Barrens, and Forsaken played a very minor role in that. If we had something like that for BfA it would make for a good faction war expansion.
The faction war would be 100% better if instead of Sylvanas and The Boy King, it was Saurfang and Genn making the desicions.

Last edited by Temo; 04-15-2018 at 10:47 AM..
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  #4911  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:05 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I feel like you can't really have grey vs. grey morality faction warring when the Forsaken exist as a thing. At that point, no matter what any other race does the Forsaken are going to top it completely by going balls to the wall evil for the sake of maximum efficiency. Some people will probably see that as still grey when Alliance do bad stuff, but in the end it will never measure up to the lengths the Forsaken are willing to go to win a war.

Probably one of the best examples of a faction war story with grey morality was Southern Barrens, and Forsaken played a very minor role in that. If we had something like that for BfA it would make for a good faction war expansion.
Still, I couldn't bear Horde-side Southern Barrens once I got to the Forsaken part. That was awful, really awful. It made me really dislike the faction that allows such abominable experiments.
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  #4912  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:27 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I like it but I think the saddle is too far back. Or its neck is too long, one of the two.
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  #4913  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:16 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
All faction kingdoms and characters, no distinction.
Cue my Ice Age concept.
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  #4914  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:39 PM
Mending Mending is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzU37fZhJDo
I like it but I think the saddle is too far back. Or its neck is too long, one of the two.
Huh. It’s a lot smaller than I thought it’d be. It really does look like a teenage core hound now.

The darkhound mount uses the same animations including that interesting gallop it has going on.
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  #4915  
Old 04-15-2018, 11:20 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Huh. It’s a lot smaller than I thought it’d be. It really does look like a teenage core hound now.

The darkhound mount uses the same animations including that interesting gallop it has going on.
So does the hyena mount the vulpera NPCs in Vol'dun use.
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  #4916  
Old 04-16-2018, 02:28 AM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I feel like you can't really have grey vs. grey morality faction warring when the Forsaken exist as a thing. At that point, no matter what any other race does the Forsaken are going to top it completely by going balls to the wall evil for the sake of maximum efficiency. Some people will probably see that as still grey when Alliance do bad stuff, but in the end it will never measure up to the lengths the Forsaken are willing to go to win a war.

Probably one of the best examples of a faction war story with grey morality was Southern Barrens, and Forsaken played a very minor role in that. If we had something like that for BfA it would make for a good faction war expansion.
A wiser man than me once said "Any time the Allaince Kicks a Puppy, the Horde Sets fire to a whole Kennel."
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  #4917  
Old 04-16-2018, 04:19 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post

I would be excited for either Reedeemed Honorable Sylvanas and Full Lich King Sylvanas Destroyer of Worlds, and I'm actually glad it's the latter.

I hope she gets to destroy as many kingdoms and cities and murder characters as possible while she is in power, and I'm not joking. The status quo must be completely obliterated.
You realize this ends with : Sylvanas was under the influence of the Void all along.
And the raid is about freeing here from it.
And she dies but only because she sacrificed herself to save us all and now we are building statues of here in Stormwind.

Hope is a dangerous thing.
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  #4918  
Old 04-16-2018, 04:44 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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You realize this ends with : Sylvanas was under the influence of the Void all along.
And the raid is about freeing here from it.
And she dies but only because she sacrificed herself to save us all and now we are building statues of here in Stormwind.

Hope is a dangerous thing.
There would be no Stormwind to build statues on.
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  #4919  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:05 AM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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I dislike that baine is unquestionably obedient.

I am 90% certain they are going to go with the "horde wants war coz honorable deaths in combat xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" meme
Tbf fucking off in the middle of a siege when your leader is an unscrupulous bitch who just just doused her frontyard with bio weapons like it was fertilizer just increases the chances of getting yourself killed. I'm ok with Baine not Uthering himself. Even Saurfang fights against the Alliance at the end.

Sylvanas straight up spits on that in the scenario.

Last edited by Feltongue; 04-16-2018 at 06:07 AM..
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  #4920  
Old 04-16-2018, 04:40 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
Tbf fucking off in the middle of a siege when your leader is an unscrupulous bitch who just just doused her frontyard with bio weapons like it was fertilizer just increases the chances of getting yourself killed. I'm ok with Baine not Uthering himself. Even Saurfang fights against the Alliance at the end.

Sylvanas straight up spits on that in the scenario.
Well, yeah, self-preservation is a thing, I suppose. It'll just look shitty when/if he eventually leads a coup against her for using the Blight and being a general sociopath. Like, "why you didn't do that before, my man?". Kinda similar to how the Horde in general still followed Garrosh long after the Mana Bomb affair.

Eh. Could be worse, I suppose.
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  #4921  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:00 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Well, yeah, self-preservation is a thing, I suppose. It'll just look shitty when/if he eventually leads a coup against her for using the Blight and being a general sociopath. Like, "why you didn't do that before, my man?". Kinda similar to how the Horde in general still followed Garrosh long after the Mana Bomb affair.

Eh. Could be worse, I suppose.
The Horde was built upon conceptual structures that honor Durotan and Orgrim.

The latter set in fire the lands of Quel'thalas surrounding Silvermoon.

He certainly wouldn't hesitate to throw a mana bomb in Lordaeron if he had the means to do so.

No one should be surprised the New Horde was still following Garrosh after Theramore. Blizzard was just doing plain old Warcraft.
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  #4922  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:45 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
The Horde was built upon conceptual structures that honor Durotan and Orgrim.

The latter set in fire the lands of Quel'thalas surrounding Silvermoon.

He certainly wouldn't hesitate to throw a mana bomb in Lordaeron if he had the means to do so.

No one should be surprised the New Horde was still following Garrosh after Theramore. Blizzard was just doing plain old Warcraft.
*sigh*

It should be crystal clear by now, but I'm going to say it again:

The problem is not Blizzard writing the New Horde being willing to follow Garrosh even after Theramore. It's Blizzard writing the New Horde being willing to follow Garrosh even after Theramore and then, after Garrosh is ousted, writing the New Horde as this honorable band of brothers who would have never stood for this kind of brutality.

It's not the sociopathy, it's the schizophrenia.
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  #4923  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:10 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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*sigh*

It should be crystal clear by now, but I'm going to say it again:

The problem is not Blizzard writing the New Horde being willing to follow Garrosh even after Theramore. It's Blizzard writing the New Horde being willing to follow Garrosh even after Theramore and then, after Garrosh is ousted, writing the New Horde as this honorable band of brothers who would have never stood for this kind of brutality.

It's not the sociopathy, it's the schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia is saying they are writing the New Horde as a honorable band of brothers when they clearly stopped doing so at Vanilla.

"But Vol'j--"

Seriously?
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  #4924  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:57 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Schizophrenia is saying they are writing the New Horde as a honorable band of brothers when they clearly stopped doing so at Vanilla.

"But Vol'j--"

Seriously?
You could make a case for Orcish Honour without much mental Gymnastics up untill Wrath when Orcs started doing Blatantly Stupid Shit to try and press the faction war with naked transparency.

Then Cataclysm Onward it just got thrown out almost entriely.


Miss me with that "it was gone in Vanilla" Bullshit. The tone before, during, and after Wrath were very noticeable and distinct
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  #4925  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:42 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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You could make a case for Orcish Honour without much mental Gymnastics up untill Wrath when Orcs started doing Blatantly Stupid Shit to try and press the faction war with naked transparency.

Then Cataclysm Onward it just got thrown out almost entriely.


Miss me with that "it was gone in Vanilla" Bullshit. The tone before, during, and after Wrath were very noticeable and distinct

If you're fine with having a hypocritical negligent demagogue run said Honorable Horde, then I must say I don't understand your standards of honor at all.

Unless you are so smitten by Thrall's words that you are unable to see the demagogy, of course.

That's how demagogy works, after all.
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