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  #56526  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:53 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Do you think Illegal immigrants should be expelled from the United States?

Whats the limit to that?

If theyve managed to make it her for 5 years they should get a pass?

Whats your stance on that
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  #56527  
Old 09-02-2017, 11:11 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Do you think Illegal immigrants should be expelled from the United States?

Whats the limit to that?

If theyve managed to make it her for 5 years they should get a pass?

Whats your stance on that
1. If they are breaking the law they ought to be deported or go to jail as warranted by the severity of the crime.


2. I think ICE's budget is better turned towards helping people integrate and immigration reform, rather than shoving people back over the border. If people are here, working, then it's counterproductive to go after them rather than the companies paying garbage wages or hiring them en-masse.

if companies have to pay a decent wage that'll attract US workers and actually bother to train them to work with the various crops then there'll be a gradual transition to US workers taking the jobs, and illegal immigration will drop off naturally.


3. How they conduct themselves should be more of an issue than how long they've been here. If they're behaving like model citizens and just lack paperwork, then our attention is better spent elsewhere.



As an addendum, while Mexico needs to get the cartels under control, we need to do our part and actually go after drug demand especially among white-collar criminals.
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  #56528  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:05 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
When someone's shooting and killing people in a coordinated effort to conquer territory, that's an invasion.

Using it in the context you are, while grammatically correct, is intentionally misleading, self serving, and hateful.
If a country is accidentally conquered it's okay then? So long as it isn't intentional and coordinated?

If over the course of a number of years Indians began moving to Somalia until Somalians were a minority that would be okay so long as the Indians weren't doing it in a coordinated way that involved killing Somalians?
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  #56529  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:09 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
If a country is accidentally conquered it's okay then? So long as it isn't intentional and coordinated?

If over the course of a number of years Indians began moving to Somalia until Somalians were a minority that would be okay so long as the Indians weren't doing it in a coordinated way that involved killing Somalians?
Over the years the Somali wouldn't just disappear, they and the Indians would blend.
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  #56530  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:28 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I'm still wondering how Mertico feels about all those damn Irish, Italian, and German immigrants that refused to integrate here and took over the country.

Anyway, what's the opinion of our righties on the GOP trying to cut $1bil from FEMA now to pay for the wall?
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/30/gop-...help-wall.html
Is Mexico saving Houston part of "making them pay for it"?

Also, if the wall is so necessary, why don't we leave it up to the free market? Private corporations will build it on their own.
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  #56531  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:12 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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1. If they are breaking the law they ought to be deported or go to jail as warranted by the severity of the crime.
Technically they are committing a crime. How do you feel about people who coke here legally?
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  #56532  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:16 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The DoJ has admitted that neither Obama nor anybody else in the government did the wiretapping that the president accuses Obama of.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...retap-foia-doj
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  #56533  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:57 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Technically they are committing a crime. How do you feel about people who coke here legally?
Technically yes but someone who immigrates illegally but otherwise doesn't harm anyone is always going to be a lower priority in my opinion than a domestic person who steals or murders.


I'm gonna guess you meant 'come' here legally, and they're the same as any other citizen imo.
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  #56534  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:49 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Over the years the Somali wouldn't just disappear, they and the Indians would blend.
By blending they would disappear. Or what if the Somalians didn't want anymore Indians to come but couldn't stop it?
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  #56535  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:07 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Technically yes but someone who immigrates illegally but otherwise doesn't harm anyone is always going to be a lower priority in my opinion than a domestic person who steals or murders.


I'm gonna guess you meant 'come' here legally, and they're the same as any other citizen imo.
No, he clearly said "coke here legally".

So which states are we talking about here? Oregon?
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  #56536  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:11 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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By blending they would disappear.

Or what if the Somalians didn't want anymore Indians to come but couldn't stop it?
1. Literally untrue. This is gene-purity eugenics nonsense.


2. What if they did want them to stay? What if the sky rained chocolate?

You can make up "What ifs" all day. It's not going to change the reality of the situation in the US or Europe.
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  #56537  
Old 09-02-2017, 09:17 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
1. Literally untrue. This is gene-purity eugenics nonsense.


2. What if they did want them to stay? What if the sky rained chocolate?

You can make up "What ifs" all day. It's not going to change the reality of the situation in the US or Europe.
Mexico was unchanged by the Spanish conquest then, if I am understanding your logic correctly.

And what situation in the US and Europe is that?
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  #56538  
Old 09-02-2017, 09:28 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Mexico was unchanged by the Spanish conquest then, if I am understanding your logic correctly.
And America has been conquered by the massive influx of Irish, Italian, and German immigrants in the 19th century.
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  #56539  
Old 09-02-2017, 09:31 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Mexico was unchanged by the Spanish conquest then, if I am understanding your logic correctly.

And what situation in the US and Europe is that?
You're ignoring military aspect as well as the ensuing plague.


That people are fleeing to more industrialized areas because their homes are unstable.

Deporting people will not solve the problem longterm, nor will simply blocking them off. We need to address the factors that are causing them to seek refuge in the first place.

Ex: Drug demand in the US, NAFTA destroying the market for mexican crops, And the instability in the Middle East.

I'm not saying the US bears sole responsibility, but those are the factors contributing to our problems that are in our control, and will best alleviate the problems.


Calling illegal immigrants invaders is an oversimplified 'feel good' solution, cause it feels nice to have someone to blame and to hate people you see as 'the other' or 'the enemy' but it doesn't actually solve the problem in any way, shape, or form.
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  #56540  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:53 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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So what you are saying is America is responsible for fixing Mexicos problems if illegal immigration is to stop...

Well, I agree. America probably should usurp Mexico, and purge the drug cartels by force.
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  #56541  
Old 09-02-2017, 11:37 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
So what you are saying is America is responsible for fixing Mexicos problems if illegal immigration is to stop...

Well, I agree. America probably should usurp Mexico, and purge the drug cartels by force.
I feel like you're not even trying to understand what I'm saying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I'm not saying the US bears sole responsibility, but those are the factors contributing to our problems that are in our control, and will best alleviate the problems.
We don't need to fix Mexico's problems, we need to take care of Drug demand in the US and our impact on their agriculture/economy, which contributes to Mexico's problems.

Usurping Mexico would be a hilariously out of place proposal to solve the problem of illegal immigration.
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  #56542  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:45 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
You're ignoring military aspect as well as the ensuing plague.


That people are fleeing to more industrialized areas because their homes are unstable.

Deporting people will not solve the problem longterm, nor will simply blocking them off. We need to address the factors that are causing them to seek refuge in the first place.

Ex: Drug demand in the US, NAFTA destroying the market for mexican crops, And the instability in the Middle East.

I'm not saying the US bears sole responsibility, but those are the factors contributing to our problems that are in our control, and will best alleviate the problems.


Calling illegal immigrants invaders is an oversimplified 'feel good' solution, cause it feels nice to have someone to blame and to hate people you see as 'the other' or 'the enemy' but it doesn't actually solve the problem in any way, shape, or form.
Should Americans have a lower quality of living if it means that Mexicans will have a higher one?
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  #56543  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:53 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Most countries in the world don't have the US problem with illegal immigration because they actually enforce the law and don't provide incentives for people to illegally‚Äč immigrate. The long term solution is changing the perverse incentives that has had the Democratic Party encourage this kind of behavior.

There is nothing pragmatic about illegal immigration. All of this is a bunch of baseless excuse making to justify the status quo that has benefited the Democratic Party at the expense of the nation. The US sacrificed and worked hard to become as wealthy as we are and now some people want to reap the rewards without doing the difficult things to keep us wealthy.
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  #56544  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:36 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Most countries in the world don't have the US problem with illegal immigration because they actually enforce the law and don't provide incentives for people to illegally‚Äč immigrate. The long term solution is changing the perverse incentives that has had the Democratic Party encourage this kind of behavior.
Examples?
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  #56545  
Old 09-03-2017, 11:07 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Should Americans have a lower quality of living if it means that Mexicans will have a higher one?
False dichotomy.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
All of this is a bunch of baseless excuse making to justify the status quo that has benefited the Democratic Party at the expense of the nation.

The US sacrificed and worked hard to become as wealthy as we are and now some people want to reap the rewards without doing the difficult things to keep us wealthy.
1. Untrue, this is nothing but a hateful partisan insult.


2. This is arrogant and untrue. You demonize other people and call them lazy or evil to avoid understanding their lives or views.
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  #56546  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:36 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Examples?
Well, I can tell you my colleagues at the immigration have no problems searching, detaining, and ultimately deporting those who trespass our territory illegally. As it should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Should Americans have a lower quality of living if it means that Mexicans will have a higher one?
I've always found the notion that I should care for some stranger as much as my family rather strange, even at the macro-level. But people have different worldviews, that is natural.
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  #56547  
Old 09-03-2017, 02:54 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Well, I can tell you my colleagues at the immigration have no problems searching, detaining, and ultimately deporting those who trespass our territory illegally. As it should be.
We don't really have problems with that, either. Hundreds of thousands of people are caught trying to cross the border illegally every quarter. US Border Patrol claims they have an 81% success rate.
I think a lot of people don't understand that the majority of illegal immigrants in the US entered the country perfectly legally. These are usually the same ignorant people who want to waste billions of tax dollars on a wall.
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  #56548  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:20 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
We don't really have problems with that, either. Hundreds of thousands of people are caught trying to cross the border illegally every quarter. US Border Patrol claims they have an 81% success rate.
I think a lot of people don't understand that the majority of illegal immigrants in the US entered the country perfectly legally. These are usually the same ignorant people who want to waste billions of tax dollars on a wall.
I was also speaking of those who enter legally, but remain illegally. They are pretty successful too.
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  #56549  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:28 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I've always found the notion that I should care for some stranger as much as my family rather strange
Do you think anyone on the forum believes this?
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  #56550  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:34 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Do you think anyone on the forum believes this?
Possibly. But what would I know, Dutchie hasn't made a poll on this so far.
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