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  #11751  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:11 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Well no, because at this point he's respond to your attacks. Should have made that clear in my original post.
Please go back and read the past couple of pages. How did I attack him? He started coming at me with the strawman when I was discussing on topic with other people. I responded to him singling me out and straw-manning me. I did not attack him. I was defending myself, and the ongoing discourse, from his inane, non sequitur interjection. I think it's clear he has a personal issue with me.

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So stop playing their game. Stop giving the undecided and the wavering any more reason to hate or resent you!
Lol, fuck that. This "enlightened centrism"/"both sides are bad" is the game, and I would love nothing more than to stop playing that game. Why can't we talk about issues instead of the concern trolling and whataboutisms? You're smart enough to know better than this, Spider. You might have a point if you could prove that someone was undecided. But we don't know what's in people's hearts, we just have their words and actions to go by. It's just as likely that they've already decided and they're just playing games with you and tarnishing the discourse. Furthermore, if all it takes is someone being obnoxious toward you to push you into the alt-right, something tells me you were already headed that direction anyway. They already have their reasons to hate and resent, and it's unlikely that what I say will sway them.

No. I'm going to stand by my beliefs and defend them as well as I can. If I've broken the rules of the forum, then let's address that. Otherwise, I'm going to continue supporting my beliefs, thank you very much.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; 04-22-2019 at 05:15 PM..
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  #11752  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:24 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Why can't we talk about issues instead of the concern trolling and whataboutisms?
Talk about the fucking issues. Don't act like everyone who hasn't seen reason yet is an irredeemable monster. It's not that complicated. You won't hear me say both sides are the same. My point is that we have to play smart because relying on our moral high ground doesn't fucking work.

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No. I'm going to stand by my beliefs and defend them as well as I can. If I've broken the rules of the forum, then let's address that. Otherwise, I'm going to continue supporting my beliefs, thank you very much.
Do so. You don't need to be a dick about it.

I mean, when you're arguing with someone, is your goal to piss them off or is it to persuade them to see things your way?
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11753  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:22 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Lol, fuck that. This "enlightened centrism"/"both sides are bad" is the game, and I would love nothing more than to stop playing that game. Why can't we talk about issues instead of the concern trolling and whataboutisms? You're smart enough to know better than this, Spider. You might have a point if you could prove that someone was undecided. But we don't know what's in people's hearts, we just have their words and actions to go by. It's just as likely that they've already decided and they're just playing games with you and tarnishing the discourse. Furthermore, if all it takes is someone being obnoxious toward you to push you into the alt-right, something tells me you were already headed that direction anyway. They already have their reasons to hate and resent, and it's unlikely that what I say will sway them.

No. I'm going to stand by my beliefs and defend them as well as I can. If I've broken the rules of the forum, then let's address that. Otherwise, I'm going to continue supporting my beliefs, thank you very much.
Yes and telling reasonable people that they are bigots, assholes and fuckwits will make them come to our side. Such divisive rhetoric should be only brought out after all other attempts to convince someone fail and arguably not even then if you're polite, but nowadays it is the thing people open up with and with minimal or no provocation This exclusionary behavior is the number two reason why people are increasingly being pushed to the right.

The main reason is that the left is not doing it's main fucking job. And that is addressing people's livelyhoods. People want more money, more security and more justice. That should be the lefts no.1 concern, fighting classism. All other ills like racism, sexism, etc are secondary and generally just a subset of the main issue. And the best bit? Just about everyone is ready to agree on this. If you really knew the new right well you would know that many if not most of them have little love for big corporations, wealth inequality and are surprisingly left economically. If the left would stop dying on the relatively inconsequential SJW hill it could accomplish so much more. Instead it bleeds potential voters to neoliberal shits and often the left has become the neoliberal shits. And cocksuckers like the Koch brothers and similar are more than happy to turn people who are socially rightwing into being economically rightwing too. Because the left pushes them with the divisive and frankly annoying SJW rhetoric, it is actually helping its own worst enemies build a power base out of people who were more amenable to your thinking at first.

Ultimately the solution is to focus on what is important and on the common ground. I think those are wealth inequality, corruption and a few precious others. Even if common ground can't be reached on the issues of social justice or immigration and most everything then the two sides should work together on the few issues they do agree with. And if you fail to do that out of pride or thoughtless ideology then you are a dupe of the rich fucks who enjoy nothing more than the rightwing and leftwing plebs being at each other's throats.

I am socially rightwing but economically leftwing if that is not obvious from my rant. I am guessing most of you are left on both accounts. So lets work together on the thing we agree on and try and bring about a more economically equitable world. Leave secondary issues by the wayside. Though I can say right now that when class distinctions are lessened things like racism will die out too, there will be little reason to look down on others if we all live similar lives.

Anansi is right in that when you shout, insult and mock the other side you gain nothing. It may feel good and maybe you think you are standing up for yourself but you not only change nothing but you only strengthen their own conviction. Trying to convince someone to change their mind on deep set beliefs is a dodgy proposition but if you try to understand them and argue logically then you at least have a chance to succeed.
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  #11754  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:21 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Racism and sexism are important fronts in the battle against classism, and I disagree pretty strongly with your assertion that they distract from the main issue. But it is a goddamn shame that so many people these days think if you're not with us you must be against us. There is still middle ground, but it's vanishing rapidly. We need to get our collective act together.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11755  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:43 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Racism and sexism are important fronts in the battle against classism, and I disagree pretty strongly with your assertion that they distract from the main issue. But it is a goddamn shame that so many people these days think if you're not with us you must be against us. There is still middle ground, but it's vanishing rapidly. We need to get our collective act together.
If it wasn't clear, I was being a dick to Grim because he was completely off topic and singling me out for no reason - not because of his beliefs. I can't even tell what his beliefs are, for that matter. Do you see the issue here?

But yeah, I probably came in too hot on Baron's post a while back, so point taken. I will try to be more gracious toward opponents in the future. But I have 0 patience for what Grim was doing. Can we at least acknowledge his role in this?
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  #11756  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:01 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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But I have 0 patience for what Grim was doing. Can we at least acknowledge his role in this?
Sure, as far as I can see he did come in here spoiling for a fight.

Grim, I hope you don't think I'm being unfair here. I like you, you're a fun guy. But presuming the worst right off the bat, whether you come in swinging at the left or the right, is a good way to enter a downward spiral of furious impotence. Can we all try to be a little less in the future, and try to understand that the many serious problems facing our worlds can best be solved by reconciling ourselves with people who might not necessarily immediately see where we're all individually coming from?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11757  
Old 04-23-2019, 10:19 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Sure, as far as I can see he did come in here spoiling for a fight.

Grim, I hope you don't think I'm being unfair here. I like you, you're a fun guy. But presuming the worst right off the bat, whether you come in swinging at the left or the right, is a good way to enter a downward spiral of furious impotence. Can we all try to be a little less in the future, and try to understand that the many serious problems facing our worlds can best be solved by reconciling ourselves with people who might not necessarily immediately see where we're all individually coming from?
I mean, in all honesty, with as bad as the environment is based on most recent reports, we're likely all dead within a century or two. We may have fucked up ocean temp and insect populations globally.
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  #11758  
Old 04-24-2019, 04:10 AM
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Thank you for the intervention, Spider.

I do not know whether any of the involved parties actually needed the advice they were given, due to my lack of knowledge about their political stances and the media they consume, but in general, I do believe that being told to "look outside of your bubble" or to "practice what you preach" is not the worst advice you could be given.

Just be more mindful about your tone and don't start unnecessary squabbles.
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  #11759  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:18 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I mean, in all honesty, with as bad as the environment is based on most recent reports, we're likely all dead within a century or two. We may have fucked up ocean temp and insect populations globally.
The species will survive, but I don't see us living long enough to see the recovery.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11760  
Old 04-25-2019, 11:03 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is online now

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But yeah, I probably came in too hot on Baron's post a while back, so point taken.
Nope, don't equivocate! You haven't said a foul thing to me; you just argued that big corporations scare you more than big government. There wasn't any vitriole.


...you know, I think we all sort of like big government and big corporations when they agree with us and do things we like. We get scared of their influence when they do things we don't care for.

I love being able to buy inexpensive medicine for my kids at 3:45 am on Easter Sunday, for example. It takes a faceless corporate empire to pull that off. That's what so many of us see everyday.
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  #11761  
Old 04-25-2019, 06:44 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I love being able to buy inexpensive medicine for my kids at 3:45 am on Easter Sunday, for example. It takes a faceless corporate empire to pull that off. That's what so many of us see everyday.
I'm pretty sure it takes strict regulation and even then it's not enough in many cases to bring drug prices down to affordable levels.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11762  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:09 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is online now

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On the topic of "social justice warriors", I notice the new Sonic the Hedgehog movie trailer is getting hate-slammed, oh so very hard.

And this time? Unlike Ghostbusters or Star Wars, nobody can say it's about fan sexism or racism. That makes me feel good inside. Thank you, Sonic.

EDIT: I don't know if you non-white non-men realize it, but it feels REALLY GOOD for us to be able to hate something without worrying about our hatred being subconsciously fueled by an anti-diversity mindset.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 05-02-2019 at 07:12 AM..
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  #11763  
Old 05-08-2019, 05:45 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
On the topic of "social justice warriors", I notice the new Sonic the Hedgehog movie trailer is getting hate-slammed, oh so very hard.

And this time? Unlike Ghostbusters or Star Wars, nobody can say it's about fan sexism or racism. That makes me feel good inside. Thank you, Sonic.

EDIT: I don't know if you non-white non-men realize it, but it feels REALLY GOOD for us to be able to hate something without worrying about our hatred being subconsciously fueled by an anti-diversity mindset.
I think the Sonic hate is better understood if you compare it to something like Pixels, rather than Ghostbusters 2016 or Star Wars.
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  #11764  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:08 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I think the Sonic hate is better understood if you compare it to something like Pixels, rather than Ghostbusters 2016 or Star Wars.
Yeah that feels much more appropriate.


EDIT:

https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/0...the-alt-right/

Eugh. This was agonizing.
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  #11765  
Old 05-27-2019, 08:32 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Here's a glimpse of what some of these guys are all about. Don't fall for the alt-right gaslighting during your online adventures!





Before anyone claims these posts are just trolling and not meant to be taken seriously, please tell that to the alt-righters on reddit, twitter, facebook, and the chans who live and breathe these tactics on a daily basis.

"Thanks for pushing people further to the right" Comes uncannily close to some of the rhetoric we've seen in this very thread.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; 05-27-2019 at 08:38 AM..
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  #11766  
Old 05-27-2019, 05:22 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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"Thanks for pushing people further to the right" Comes uncannily close to some of the rhetoric we've seen in this very thread.
Yeah I kinda said that and it's obviously true, shitting on average people by saying they are a bigot over imagined injustices is not a winning hand. I also said that real leftist should put SJW shit to the wayside even if just temporarily to solve the real problems.

Does that mean I was a hidden channer plant all along? Wake up man.
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  #11767  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:09 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Yeah I kinda said that and it's obviously true, shitting on average people by saying they are a bigot over imagined injustices is not a winning hand. I also said that real leftist should put SJW shit to the wayside even if just temporarily to solve the real problems.

Does that mean I was a hidden channer plant all along? Wake up man.
No one has a problem with average people, my dude. Just nazis. If you make their arguments for them, that's on you though. I just thought people here should be aware of how they do things.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; 05-27-2019 at 06:14 PM..
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  #11768  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:12 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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No one has a problem with average people, my dude. Just nazis. If you make their arguments for them, that's on you though. I just thought people here should be aware of how they do things.
With nonsense like microaggressions and outrage culture it is very easy for a random person to be told they are awful bigots. You kind of do it right now by saying either you're fine or you are a Nazi. There are many distinct shades from Dr. King to Hitler. When everyone is called a Nazi or a racist then it loses any descriptive, and consequently moral, power. Worse telling a guy who is not a racist or a Nazi that he is one will logically make him consider such terms overblown and more open towards other people so marked, he is not bad they can't be bad, some of which might be legit Nazis. That is how the rightwards push works and it is wrecking SJWs but by all means continue if you think I'm wrong.

And it is not the Nazis who are dividing the proletariat it is the people in charge, the various kinds of elites. By accepting and in fact enforcing the divide between right wing lower/middle class and the left counterpart you help them. Everyone should agree that wealth inequality is out of hand, that corruption is no good and other themes that unite people. I can assure you most rightwing people online hate those things too, you feel it on your skin, how can you not. So either stow away issues you know will never get traction with the other side and solve real, mutual issues or keep playing the role given to you by people in charge and keep getting exploited. Again it is up to you.
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  #11769  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:15 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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With nonsense like microaggressions and outrage culture it is very easy for a random person to be told they are awful bigots. You kind of do it right now by saying either you're fine or you are a Nazi. There are many distinct shades from Dr. King to Hitler. When everyone is called a Nazi or a racist then it loses any descriptive, and consequently moral, power. Worse telling a guy who is not a racist or a Nazi that he is one will logically make him consider such terms overblown and more open towards other people so marked, he is not bad they can't be bad, some of which might be legit Nazis. That is how the rightwards push works and it is wrecking SJWs but by all means continue if you think I'm wrong.

And it is not the Nazis who are dividing the proletariat it is the people in charge, the various kinds of elites. By accepting and in fact enforcing the divide between right wing lower/middle class and the left counterpart you help them. Everyone should agree that wealth inequality is out of hand, that corruption is no good and other themes that unite people. I can assure you most rightwing people online hate those things too, you feel it on your skin, how can you not. So either stow away issues you know will never get traction with the other side and solve real, mutual issues or keep playing the role given to you by people in charge and keep getting exploited. Again it is up to you.
Again, you seem to have this idea that lots of regular, average people are getting wrongly caught up in some Nazi fever. I just don't see it. Regular people aren't often mistaken for Nazis because regular people usually aren't out marching for a white ethnostate. And if they are: that makes them Nazis.

And the idea that we need to shelve social issues temporarily in order to prioritize economics is just stupid as hell. As if these things aren't inextricably intertwined. As if we can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
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  #11770  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:22 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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And the idea that we need to shelve social issues temporarily in order to prioritize economics is just stupid as hell. As if these things aren't inextricably intertwined. As if we can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Racism for the most part stems from classism, if people were more economically equal there would be little to no reason to look down upon each other. Same goes for other kinds of inequality, and at worst if you have money you won't much care if someone over there is thumbing their nose at you. Classism is the root of most BS in the world, it is inextricably linked with the rest but cut it and the rest falls away.

And yeah I am sure you can whinge about SJW stuff and capitalism at the same time, people on the other side can't. Most of them loathe stuff like positive discrimination, heavy handed political correctness and God forbid you mention reparations. You totally lose them on this relatively minor point when you could easily make common cause against the assholes exploiting you both. This is exactly what the rich and powerful want, the two sides of the majority at their throats over minor shit while they enjoy the highly unequal benefits of the status quo.

But whatever, you have your own opinions so...
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  #11771  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:03 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Another good breakdown that the Left (wing media) has gone further off the rails.


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  #11772  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:33 PM
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Another good breakdown that the Left (wing media) has gone further off the rails.
There is no "far left" media (with rare and obscure exceptions like SocialistWorker). Also I don't give clicks to people that suggest there is. No views to fake news.
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  #11773  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:50 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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There is no "far left" media (with rare and obscure exceptions like SocialistWorker). Also I don't give clicks to people that suggest there is. No views to fake news.
lol.

Alright dude.

Be an extremist. Have fun with that.
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  #11774  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:50 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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lol.

Alright dude.

Be an extremist. Have fun with that.
If you consider CNN "the far left," then you're definitely the extremist here.
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  #11775  
Old 06-07-2019, 08:07 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I'm skeptical of youtuber news.
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