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#5376
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![]() Elune Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,261
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#5377
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![]() Master Worldbuilder Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136
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![]() I sympathize with him. Serials are a goddamn nightmare and I've sworn never to publish any of my writing until everything in its continuity is nailed down.
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#5378
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![]() Elune Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 21,434
BattleTag: Leviathonlx#1820
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![]() Yea I think he loves the world he created but he has no idea how to tie up the overly complicated story he's created.
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#5379
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![]() Arch-Druid Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,059
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![]() At this point I'd rather he made his peace with his inability to finish the serie and write more novellas.
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#5380
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![]() Elune Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 21,434
BattleTag: Leviathonlx#1820
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![]() He should have hired a ghostwriter a decade ago
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#5381
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() Beginning a new project: I'm going to start collecting all of the known sources that reference the Deep Ones and their squisher minions - in a similar style to other compilations I've assembled on Aerys+Joanna and the Crow's Eye. Most of the references to the Deep Ones and their watery empire are found in the World of Ice and Fire book as they seem to be a later-invention by George - so the compilation will cover things like the Iron Islands, Oldtown, Lorath, Yeen, the Thousand Isles, the Isle of Toads and Crackclaw Point - with some other sources from A Feast for Crows (primarily the Brienne one where Dick Crab explains the nature of squishers)
I may also use Photoshop to label a map of all the known activity of the Deep Ones - so as to help get a sense of the geography of their empire in the Dawn Age. Then I mean to post the completed work on the ASoIaF subreddit and here if people are interested. |
#5382
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![]() Arch-Druid Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,426
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800
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![]() I'm certainly interested.
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#5383
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![]() Elune Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Trickster's Mighty Keep
Posts: 7,368
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![]() Very interested.
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#5384
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() Pretty much finished collecting them all - as far as I can tell. Now I just need to trim the quotes and write up the information. I was already fairly familiar with most of the content I was researching - but there were a few new things that stuck out to me. Such as there being evidence of ancient Deep One activity on the Basilisk Isles and Naath; as there are ruined oily black-stone fortresses on those isles too.
Some content is left ambiguous as to whether the Deep Ones are involved there or not - such as the island of Leng with its supposed subterranean monsters that the Empress consorts with. Or the city of Yeen on Sothoryos - but the main objection to those two places would be their distance from the deep sea; as the squishers seem to have only been sent against cities directly on the coast. Asshai could likewise have been a Deep One vassal-city - but there's just not enough evidence either way to prove it. The home of the sea dragons is suggested to be the deep Sunset Sea though according to one source - which makes sense as its the biggest (and presumably) deepest sea in the known world. Last edited by Shaman; 08-09-2017 at 10:59 PM.. |
#5385
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![]() Master Worldbuilder Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136
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![]() I'm pretty sure Sothoryos is its own weird thing. I don't think the marine nightmares of the squishies have much jurisdiction over the jungle nightmares of the endless green.
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#5386
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() Quote:
However it is suggested that the squishers were the original inhabitants of the nearby Basilisk Isles - as they've left their black stone ruins along the Isle of Tears, Isle of Toads and Ax Isle. Its said by one source that these 'hint at some ancient civilization, but little is known of these vanished men of the Dawn Age' and that any of its survivors were 'soon put to the sword' by the first corsairs. So we don't know how exactly, but at some point the sea dragons lost their empire to men. Also one correction about something I said in my previous post: I had said that there was a black stone fortress on the island of Naath, which is true, but I had falsely attributed this structure to the Deep Ones when actually it is explicitly stated in the World of Ice and Fire that it was in fact the Valyrians who had built it. So no history of squishers on Naath; as far as anyone can tell. |
#5387
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![]() Master Worldbuilder Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136
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#5388
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() Quote:
Another way of distinguishing the creators of these structures is that the black stone that was shaped by Valyrians were made into very elaborate and ornate shapes - while the style of the Deep Ones is more crude and functional. Last edited by Shaman; 08-11-2017 at 07:57 AM.. |
#5389
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() I finished my research essay on the sea dragons and squishers if anyone wants to read it - I named it 'Empire of Sea' to give the work a flashy title.
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#5390
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![]() Eternal Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,666
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![]() - I highly suggest you look at the ASoIaF forums, they have tons of discussion about deeplings and oily stones and krakens, full of references and sources.
- How do we feel about there being raptors, king kongs, and giant spiders in Sothoryos?? - Take a look at this post! I think it would make for an amazing story. |
#5391
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![]() Site Staff - Moderator Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,052
BattleTag: Pyrolithic#1538
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#5392
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() Depending on the way the timeline works out in The Winds of Winter, the closest we may get to Sothoryos are some PoV chapters set in the Summer and Basilisk Isles. We hear towards the end of A Feast for Crows that Euron has been crowned as the new corsair king of the Basilisk Isles that he has raided Tall Trees Town - so if these events didn't happen off-screen, through Aeron we might see first-hand this reaving campaign across the southern seas.
Last edited by Shaman; 08-16-2017 at 09:53 AM.. |
#5393
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() I've decided what subject I'm going to attempt to tackle in my next ASoIaF research essay: The Mad King's lust for Joanna Lannister and his jealousy of Tywin. As I said in the Game of Thrones thread, I don't particularly care one way or the other about Tyrion's parentage - but there does seem to be quite strong textual evidence that Aerys raped Joanna at 272AC in King's Landing. So I mean to collect all of the relevant sources in one essay and let people decide for themselves.
The most common objection I've read to this claim about Aerys and Joanna is that the reader simply wouldn't wish it to be true - which unfortunately just isn't a relevant complaint. Say someone happened to believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna being Jon's parents irrevocably ruined their perception of Jon's relationship with Ned - that wouldn't mean we should dismiss the dozens of sources that suggest the opposite was true. Textual criticism means we must dismiss our own personal biases and preferences and instead attempt to gauge the author's own intent based on the text we have been given. I'm tentatively going to call the essay 'Promise me, Tywin' because I believe that name would successfully compare the similarities and stark differences with R+L=J; while also being plausible-enough that it could actually have been something Joanna said on her deathbed. |
#5394
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() I have an exert here from a much larger essay that I am writing if anyone cares to read - this particular bit addresses who the most likely suspects were for the poisoning of Hizdahr's honeyed locusts during the events at Daznak's Pit. The italicized bits are the direct sources from the books (my references didn't copy over easily when I copy-pasted this extract from Microsoft Word - so apologies that my sources are not clear here):
'...Alternatively it may be that the poisonous locusts were intended neither for Daenerys nor Hizdahr; but were instead a personal plot of revenge against Strong Belwas by the kin of Oznak zo Pahl in retaliation for their family-member’s humiliating defeat during the siege of Meereen. Oznak’s uncle was ‘the richest man in Meereen’ while his father commanded the city guard – Oznak’s father then ‘died defending the gates’ while three of his uncles were among the hundred and sixty-three masters who were crucified on Meereen’s plaza. The Shavepate believed that the house of Pahl were Daenerys’ greatest enemies among the Meereenese nobility as their family had been reduced to “Bitter old women with a taste for blood.” The most direct evidence that suggests the Pahls poisoned the locusts was that Daenerys’ journey to Daznak’s Pit was temporarily interrupted by an overturned palanquin outside the pyramid of Pahl, giving an opportunity for Hizdahr’s locusts to be swapped for the poisoned ones during the confusion, as Ser Barristan himself stated at the time that “I do not like this halt. This may be some trap.” It was soon after this interruption that Strong Belwas began sweating uncontrollably when they had arrived at the Pit.' Last edited by Shaman; 10-04-2017 at 07:38 PM.. |
#5395
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![]() Eternal Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,666
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![]() Not bad at all, pretty convincing!
I for one love reading theories, so bring them on! |
#5396
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() Roy Dotrice died today
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#5397
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![]() Site Staff - Moderator Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,052
BattleTag: Pyrolithic#1538
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![]() Huh. Wouldn't have guessed he was in his nineties.
Still, always a shame. ![]() |
#5398
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![]() Site Staff - Admin Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448
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![]() So where does everyone stand on the Pink Letter from Jon XIII ADWD? I think I have concluded by now that it was almost-certainly Mance Raydar who wrote the letter; and not Ramsay. There are a few bits of evidence from the text that point towards Mance:
Last edited by Shaman; 01-11-2018 at 04:21 AM.. |
#5399
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![]() Elune Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Trickster's Mighty Keep
Posts: 7,368
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![]() I just hope Jon's dead for good in the books. Not that I hate the character, I just don't like the idea of another resurrection. His death was really well written and opens more story potential than his resurrection.
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Tags |
game of thrones, literature, no one survives, song of ice and fire, spoilers, trickster's tag, trolling |
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