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Old 03-04-2009, 02:12 AM
dcr13 dcr13 is offline

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Default Bolvar Lives?

Has anyone listened to the patch 3.1 sound files? There is a conversation between the Lich King and a prisoner. This prisoner seems to be someone very important and powerful, and they also sound exactly like Bolvar Fordragon! Any thoughts?
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:20 AM
Pride Pride is offline

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Alexstrasza said he died if i remember right. I think she of all would know for sure.
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:25 AM
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There is speculation that he's now undead, but if they still go by the cannon that Paladins can't be raised into undeath, I don't believe that's true. Now it'd be interesting if this was Tirion or the Elder Mograine, but there's no basis whatsoever for those claims.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:37 AM
Eylirria Eylirria is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pride View Post
Alexstrasza said he died if i remember right. I think she of all would know for sure.
And then we turn our backs and she speaks in draconic how we shall not learn of the young paladin's fate, not yet.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:53 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Could somebody please upload the dialog?

Anyway, I've somehow expected that they might bring Bolvar back...
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:55 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
if they still go by the cannon that Paladins can't be raised into undeath, I don't believe that's true.
Well. That can't be true at all. There are undead paladins everywhere.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:18 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Well. That can't be true at all. There are undead paladins everywhere.
Where? Because from what I remember, they're immune to plagues and infections, magical or not. That's why Uther's remains are entombed instead of walking around. I mean, the Forsaken can't even touch the light, so how is that possible?
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:47 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Paladins being immune to undeath seems to be gone. We have Zeliek and the Mograines. Many of the 1,000 dead that got moved to the catacombs under Light's Hope were also paladins who they feared would get raised as undead.

They might be immune to the plague, but not to undeath itself.
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:42 AM
Daiol Daiol is offline

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I was under the impression that Bolvar was melted by the Forsaken Blight.

It would be massively not cool if they had him being taken prisoner after that epic death scene.
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:44 AM
Eylirria Eylirria is offline

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I don't know if it makes any sense, but, the way I try to rationalize it is, being able to be brought back into the Scourge is just something that varies on each person.

For instance, Kel'thuzad couldn't be simply raised, the power of the sunwell was needed in order to bring him back.

So, in my mind, one's faith in the light plays a role against being able to be raised from the dead and not. Uther was probably the most devout paladin, it's why his tomb in the plaguelands is constantly bathed by light, and no undead can go near it, in my mind, his faith is just much too strong to raised into the Scourge.

In the same rationale, I wouldn't expect, should Tirion ever die, him to be raise able either. Other paladins of not as strong faith, or that died under circumstances that made them lose their faith or hope (ie, Alexandros Mograine being backstabbed by his son, wielding the Ashbringer), become more susceptible to it.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:28 AM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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I told you Horde would get burning humans as their new race and Burning Bolvar would be their faction leader XD.

On a more serious note, if Bolvar returned as an undead... the reaction of Varian would be most interesting
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:40 AM
devius devius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eylirria View Post
For instance, Kel'thuzad couldn't be simply raised, the power of the sunwell was needed in order to bring him back.
Incorrect, the power of the sunwell was necessary to raise him as the most powerful lich, once a lich, he can easily be reanimated if his phylacrety is kept.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:26 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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The Bolvar thing is very plausible. We all see him being the last mand standing around. If paladins are inmune to the plague, then, he could have survived and be captured by Arthas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
They might be immune to the plague, but not to undeath itself.
This fel orc speaks truth!
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:42 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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You guys are forgetting some things though. The Red Dragons come in just after the event and burn everything in order to stop the spread of the Blight. This includes all the corpses that existed in that area from the attack.

This is why when go to see Alexstrazsa, all that you find left of both Saurfang Jr, and Bolvar, is some armor and trinkets laying on the ground at the spots they perished. You can even see that Bolvar is still holding his shield when he expires, and it is that shield you return to Varian, just laying on the scorched ground.

So I ask, how would the Lich King raise Bolvar when no corpse exists at this point to raise? Even more so considering the Lich King retreated and locked the door behind him before Bolvar could fully expire? Maybe the prisoner is Bolvar's soul? Who is this other person the Lich King is mentioning? "I will break you like I broke him." Who did the Lich King break that would have any interest to Bolvar?

The voice does sound similar now that you mention it, but it might be that they just used the same voice actor similar to how Malygos and Medivh sound like Blood Elves because they have the same voice actor, Cam Clarke.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:03 AM
Eylirria Eylirria is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by devius View Post
Incorrect, the power of the sunwell was necessary to raise him as the most powerful lich, once a lich, he can easily be reanimated if his phylacrety is kept.
Emphasis mine.

It took the power of the sunwell to raise him back. How does the fact that he is now a lich, and thus subject to easier reanimations if the phylactery isn't destroyed have to do with anything that came before he was a lich?

You didn't make much sense.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:08 AM
devius devius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eylirria View Post
You didn't make much sense.
Not when you put the emphasis in those places, i was pointing out that he could've been easily resurrected as a simple ghoul or a zombie or whatever, but it was considered necessary for him to be raised as a lich instead, which required more power. To make the most powerful lich, you need a very powerful source, in this case the Sunwell.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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The power of the Sunwell was required to lift him above your basic everyday lieutenant of the Scourge into Ner'zhul's right hand. That and he wasn't killed in a ritual, so it'd take immense power to bring his spirit back into the corporeal plane in any capacity.

The mechanics of this kind of stuff is still up in the air for the most part, and ressurections aren't simple acts, so it shouldn't be dismissed outright that he needed the Sunwell, but it shouldn't be considered the standard of all other measures either.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:11 AM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
There is speculation that he's now undead, but if they still go by the cannon that Paladins can't be raised into undeath, I don't believe that's true. Now it'd be interesting if this was Tirion or the Elder Mograine, but there's no basis whatsoever for those claims.
The canon says that the Knights of the Silver Hand were immune to the Blight Plague, not that once killed they cannot be raised.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:13 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Kenzuki View Post
The canon says that the Knights of the Silver Hand were immune to the Blight Plague, not that once killed they cannot be raised.
Thanks for clearing up the confusion. It still makes me wonder though, how Zeliek can supposedly wield the light if the Forsaken are burned by touching it.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:31 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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"I will break you like I broke him"

Bolvar and Saurfang?
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~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:35 AM
devius devius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
"I will break you like I broke him"

Bolvar and Saurfang?
There was'nt much "breaking" when Saurfang fell, more like a swift and easy kill, followed by the siphoning of his soul.

But it's a possibility.
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2009, 11:55 AM
Corrupt Corrupt is offline

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Personally I'm pretty sure it is Bolvar being tortured, and the Lich king could be referring to Arthas as the person he previously "broke".

Eylirria has mentioned this already, after completeing the Wrath gate quest when Alexstrasza and Korialstrasz are standing there after scorching the land.

the dialogue is as follows

Korialstrasz says: My Queen, do they know?
Alexstrasza the Life-Binder says: No, my beloved.
Alexstrasza the Life-Binder says: [Draconic] Ashj zila gul kirasath lok ante il lok buras danashj Gul gul
Korialstrasz nods.
Korialstrasz says: They will not.
Alexstrasza whispers: Come to me, <name>.

The Draconian translates to "no one should know the true fate of the young paladin. Not yet."
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2009, 12:03 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrupt View Post
Personally I'm pretty sure it is Bolvar being tortured, and the Lich king could be referring to Arthas as the person he previously "broke".[/B]
SPOILER FROM ARTHAS THE NOVEL.

He is Arthas, why would he talk about breaking himself?

END SPOILER

As for the text spoken in draconic, that is very interesting.
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  #24  
Old 03-04-2009, 12:21 PM
Corrupt Corrupt is offline

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Cool, didn't know that!

SPOILER

Then possible Arthas talking about breaking Ner'zhul?

End spoiler
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:31 PM
Dark Avenger Dark Avenger is offline

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Oh come on Blizzard don't bring back anther dead character, especially considering that Bolvar's death was actually handled pretty well.
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