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Old 08-17-2014, 02:02 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Must just be me then *shrug*
I didn't feel this was the Garrosh of SoO at all.
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  #12652  
Old 08-17-2014, 02:06 AM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
Must just be me then *shrug*
I didn't feel this was the Garrosh of SoO at all.


Garrosh was rather subdued in the cinematic. I read into it that was because he was pleased with himself for his success in saving his father and disrupting Gul'dan's machinations. He didn't laugh, gloat, or anything along those lines - he just savoured the moment for himself. The only other line he got in the cinematic was shouting 'NOW!' at the orcs to unleash the Iron Star, which is more in-line with the Garrosh we know. All in all, I personally enjoyed seeing this side of Garrosh Hellscream. It's probably the only chance we will get to see it.

Last edited by CosmicGuitars; 08-17-2014 at 02:09 AM..
  #12653  
Old 08-17-2014, 02:28 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post


Garrosh was rather subdued in the cinematic. I read into it that was because he was pleased with himself for his success in saving his father and disrupting Gul'dan's machinations. He didn't laugh, gloat, or anything along those lines - he just savoured the moment for himself. The only other line he got in the cinematic was shouting 'NOW!' at the orcs to unleash the Iron Star, which is more in-line with the Garrosh we know. All in all, I personally enjoyed seeing this side of Garrosh Hellscream. It's probably the only chance we will get to see it.


He's still the same asshole we know and hate, he just was more cautious this time around because he got his ass handed to him royally just a bit ago
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  #12654  
Old 08-17-2014, 02:32 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Garry is so much better looking than pig-eye Grommash. Look at that, something I never thought I'd say was said.
  #12655  
Old 08-17-2014, 02:45 AM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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He's got his mother's eyes.
  #12656  
Old 08-17-2014, 03:06 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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All these epic introductions to Maraad and Garrosh only to kill them in right after the expansion comes out. Garrosh crushed to death by Green Moses, and Maraad dies in a random quest.

  #12657  
Old 08-17-2014, 03:10 AM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
All these epic introductions to Maraad and Garrosh only to kill them in right after the expansion comes out. Garrosh crushed to death by Green Moses, and Maraad dies in a random quest.

It seems like a lost of wasted potential, doesn't it?

If only Yrel got some attention like this. Or even somebody like Ga'nar.
  #12658  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:31 AM
Malrune Malrune is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
All these epic introductions to Maraad and Garrosh only to kill them in right after the expansion comes out. Garrosh crushed to death by Green Moses, and Maraad dies in a random quest.
I'm still holding out that Teron'gor is gonna come back, fatally wounded from his battle in Auchindoun and go all 'First Deathknight' again by possessing Maraad's corpse and turning into this guy with dual personalities.

Think about it;
-Maraad dies in Shat
-Dreanai are interred in Auch
-Auch is where Teron'gar escaped at 1% by jumping off a ledge.


It's perfectly set up.
  #12659  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:32 AM
Odok Odok is offline

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Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
Strongly disagree!

Going from "I ANSWER TO NO ONE", then suffering his first real (and quite massive) defeat and landing on "Times change" felt very appropriate to me. He definitely feels more lived in now as a character. The core of him has remained the same over the years, though we saw a few different faces of it; he was teetering back in Cataclysm, and in the end he hopped on the hubris train which has proved to be a wild ride. The Garrosh of this cinematic sure as shizz ain't humbled, and he definitely isn't wallowing in regret, but he definitely has reached a quieter arrogance now.

It's been, what, three or four years since he came to Azeroth? How much have YOU jumped around as a person in three or four years.
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Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post


Garrosh was rather subdued in the cinematic. I read into it that was because he was pleased with himself for his success in saving his father and disrupting Gul'dan's machinations. He didn't laugh, gloat, or anything along those lines - he just savoured the moment for himself. The only other line he got in the cinematic was shouting 'NOW!' at the orcs to unleash the Iron Star, which is more in-line with the Garrosh we know. All in all, I personally enjoyed seeing this side of Garrosh Hellscream. It's probably the only chance we will get to see it.
It's pretty consistent with how his character is portrayed in War Crimes: beaten but unbent. He's shed a lot of his insecurities and need to constantly seek the approval of others. He's controlled and confident now, and he's found his place in life - at his long-sought father's side.

I'd say he's most certainly become humble now, and in a way, he also overcame his pride in SoO. There's a lot of symbolism for it: the way he covers his face with the hood, passing Gorehowl back to Grom, his general role as a supportive rather than leading character. He's repenting for his own perceived sins in his own way. He learned from Anduin that strength of spirit is just as honorable as physical strength, and it shows.
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  #12660  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:45 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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And how does that line up with his ambition to use the Iron Horde for revenge?
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  #12661  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:11 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Looks like @ANGRYORC1 got a tribute in Ashran:

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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
  #12662  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
And how does that line up with his ambition to use the Iron Horde for revenge?
By his perspective it's justice. The Alliance never stopped being his enemy, and the Horde, like it or not, were the traitors in SoO. And just because he's grown as a person doesn't mean he's abandoned his dream of an orcish Horde ruling over Azeroth. It's not arrogance to believe in something.

How would the story go if it was an evil empire and a backstabbing traitor who overthrew a righteous king and usurped the throne, forcing the king into the wilderness, where he raised an army and after many years marched them on his former kingdom to take back what was rightfully his? I'm actually rather impressed at how Blizz managed to spin that trope on its head.
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  #12663  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:18 AM
Klungo Klungo is offline

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So I'm really confused about something here. According to the Tom Chilton interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_pbPWQDZ6w), Garrosh betrays Kairoz (and Wrathion) and decides to use the Iron Horde to destroy Azeroth's inhabitants.

It seems that the original plan was for Garrosh to go to Draenor, prevent the orcs from drinking the demon blood, and use them to work together with the Alliance and Horde to defeat the Burning Legion.

The part that confuses me is why Kairoz/Wrathion would even consider that Garrosh would work with them, and vice versa. To Azeroth, Garrosh is a guy who just committed these terrible crimes and is now an escaped prisoner. On the other side of things, Garrosh seems to have a major grudge on practically everyone who was against him during his war. In no reality do I see these two sides forming any sort of alliance.

However, if Kairoz/Wrathion wanted Garrosh to defeat the Horde and Alliance and take over Azeroth, exactly what part of the original plan did Garrosh not follow, and in turn, betray them?

This all seems pretty obvious and makes me wonder how the dragons could be so foolish to think Garrosh would not turn on them.

Also, sorry if this has already been discussed.


Last edited by Klungo; 08-17-2014 at 05:21 AM..
  #12664  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:21 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Klungo View Post
However, if Kairoz/Wrathion wanted Garrosh to defeat the Horde and Alliance and take over Azeroth, exactly what part of the original plan did Garrosh not follow, and in turn, betray them?

This all seems pretty obvious and makes me wonder how the dragons could be so foolish to think Garrosh would not turn on them.

Also, sorry if this already has been discussed.

Idiot Ball.

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A moment where a character's stupidity fuels an episode, or a small plot line. If multiple characters have the Idiot Ball, it becomes an Idiot Plot. Temporary (or permanent) Genre Blindness is often a cause of this trope.
Coined by Hank Azaria on Herman's Head: Azaria would ask the writing staff, "Who's carrying the idiot ball this week?" This is generally not a compliment. Frequently, the person carrying the idiot ball is acting out of character, misunderstanding something that could be cleared up by asking a single reasonable question or not performing a simple action that would solve everything. It's almost as if the character holding the ball is being willfully stupid or obtuse far beyond what has been established as "natural" for them. Frequently, it's only because the story (and by extension, the writers) need them to act this way, or else the chosen plot/conflict for the episode won't happen.
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  #12665  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:26 AM
Klungo Klungo is offline

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Yeah, that seems like a pretty reasonable explanation!

However, I'm hoping someone can convince me that it all makes sense without attributing it to faulty writing. I do try to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt in most cases.
  #12666  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:27 AM
Malrune Malrune is offline

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Who else are they gonna get to talk diplomatic with the original horde, someone who grew up on the original Dreanor and has proven themselves strong/resourceful enough to deal with the likes of Gul'Dan and Mannoroth?
  #12667  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:29 AM
Klungo Klungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Malrune View Post
Who else are they gonna get to talk diplomatic with the original horde, someone who grew up on the original Dreanor and has proven themselves strong/resourceful enough to deal with the likes of Gul'Dan and Mannoroth?
I'm not trying to dispute their reasoning for choosing Garrosh to get the Draenor Horde to work with them, however, I am wondering exactly if/why the dragons would think Garrosh would take this new army and become buddies with the Alliance and Horde.

It's entirely possible (and likely) that we don't know enough about Wrathion's plans to say just yet. Once again, I'm basing these theories off of Tom Chilton's interview recently and he might not be the most reliable source of information.

It's fun to speculate, though.

Last edited by Klungo; 08-17-2014 at 05:33 AM..
  #12668  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:36 AM
Malrune Malrune is offline

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Originally Posted by Klungo View Post
I'm not trying to dispute their reasoning for choosing Garrosh to get the Draenor Horde to work with them, however, I am wondering exactly if/why the dragons would think Garrosh would take this new army and become buddies with the Alliance and Horde.
Because Gary reaaaaly hates the Legion? Enemy of my enemy and all that, they just forgot Garrosh is a raging orc supremacist. In his own twisted way Garrosh could even be honoring the agreement, considering the Horde and Alliance too weak individually (same thought-line as Wrathion) to stand against the Legion and figuring the best bet would be to steamroll them both and beat the Legion himself.

Too bad we don't get his line to Sylvanas in Silverpine thrown back in his face. Forging an army to conquer other worlds. Have you given any thought to what this means, Garrosh? What difference is there between you and the Burning Legion now?
  #12669  
Old 08-17-2014, 06:08 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Especially after they admitted that saying Garrosh was the final boss was a mistake.
Yeah they in full retard mode right now, every Blue post/interview video is just making things worse. Chilton should never be allowed to speak in public about WoW, he's fucking terrible at it.

Micky N is the best hope we've got right now for salvaging SOMETHING from this clusterfuck. Atleast as far as the Lore goes. Gameplay wise, it's not looking good at all. If they seriously only give us a couple of patches worth of content before announcing another expansion, they're almost sealing their fate.
  #12670  
Old 08-17-2014, 07:15 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Gameplay wise they're golden. MoP was the best so far in terms of gameplay and WoD seems to be building on that.

It's just the lore and the feature cutting, as well as a possibly cheapened/shortened patch cycle that might bite them in the ass.
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  #12671  
Old 08-17-2014, 07:31 AM
Odok Odok is offline

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Especially after they admitted that saying Garrosh was the final boss was a mistake.
I don't think they ever said this. All I recall from BlizzCon is their assurance that WoD's final boss wouldn't be the same thing all over again

I just thought of something. What if the final boss fight is Grom fighting both with and against you? Like he's been fel corrupted and the fight bounces between you fighting him in a fel crazed state, and one where he's able to reassert control and you attack some Legion Big Bad holding the leash. If done right that could be a very neat way to preserve his duality and image as both hero and villain, and it would certainly make the final boss fight of the expac distinct from Garrosh.
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  #12672  
Old 08-17-2014, 07:33 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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I don't think they ever said this. All I recall from BlizzCon is their assurance that WoD's final boss wouldn't be the same thing all over again

I just thought of something. What if the final boss fight is Grom fighting both with and against you? Like he's been fel corrupted and the fight bounces between you fighting him in a fel crazed state, and one where he's able to reassert control and you attack some Legion Big Bad holding the leash. If done right that could be a very neat way to preserve his duality and image as both hero and villain, and it would certainly make the final boss fight of the expac distinct from Garrosh.
What they DID say, however, is that they regretted announcing SoO and Garrosh at the release of MoP - so i'm honestly flabberghasted that they're doing it AGAIN. Especially because it just doesn't look good without context. Son - father, Orc - Orc......it might be suitably epic as the story builds throughout WoD, but right now it just seems lazy to many people.
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  #12673  
Old 08-17-2014, 07:36 AM
Malrune Malrune is offline

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What they DID say, however, is that they regretted announcing SoO and Garrosh at the release of MoP - so i'm honestly flabberghasted that they're doing it AGAIN. Especially because it just doesn't look good without context. Son - father, Orc - Orc......it might be suitably epic as the story builds throughout WoD, but right now it just seems lazy to many people.
They were probably banking on their big flashy cinematic making Grommash out to be a total badass and promptly announcing he's the final boss. It's not a bad move to try and get a hype train rolling like that, they just underestimated how horribly jaded their fanbase has become.
  #12674  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:07 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Grom will turn to fel magic after getting desperate when his Iron Horde crumbles all around him.
  #12675  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:10 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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To me, this Grommash so far just seems like a tool and a side note. Sure, it's Grom, he has Gorehowl, whatever. It's not the Grom with all the history behind him in WC3, his character at this moment consists of "we will not be slaves, ORC POWAH RRRAAAWWWR".

I don't see him getting any significant development until the Citadel raid either, it'll probably just be him getting desperate and drinking the blood after all, making the entire cinematic pointless.

Making him the final boss is probably the worst decision they made so far, in my opinion. I just have zero interest in this character, especially since he will obviously have virtually no impact on our meta storyline whatsoever (much like pretty much all of what's happening in WoD, it seems).

Seriously, even facing Garrosh AGAIN would have been better in my opinion, because at least that character has history and "heat", to steal a wrestling term, behind him. Pretty much everyone wants to see Garrosh dead.
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