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Old 12-14-2013, 02:52 PM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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Default How Would You Have Done Garrosh

NOTE: THIS IS NOT FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE THOUGHT GARROSH WAS A BAD IDEA FROM DAY ONE OR THAT METZEN WANTED US TO HATE HIM FROM DAY ONE!

Since we are better writers than the crap in Blizzard, who has caved in to the masses and ruined him with constant horrific and disjointed writing and disjointed characterization. I ask us--how would we have done Garrosh? Would we also make him a psycopath? Or would we actually explore a morally grey war for all it's worth? If we have to do MoP with a neutral garrosh, how would we do it---who will be our villain isntead?
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Last edited by xie323; 12-14-2013 at 03:01 PM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:07 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Old 12-14-2013, 03:09 PM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xie323 View Post
NOTE: THIS IS NOT FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE THOUGHT GARROSH WAS A BAD IDEA FROM DAY ONE OR THAT METZEN WANTED US TO HATE HIM FROM DAY ONE!

Since we are better writers than the crap in Blizzard, who has caved in to the masses and ruined him with constant horrific and disjointed writing and disjointed characterization. I ask us--how would we have done Garrosh? Would we also make him a psycopath? Or would we actually explore a morally grey war for all it's worth? If we have to do MoP with a neutral garrosh, how would we do it?
I would have done Garrosh as a less brazen, more politically concious leader. He came across a Brown/Green supremacist. I wanted to see a progressive growth from an untempered, inexperienced leader, grow into to a tactical genius, well versed in political maneuvering. I don't even care if he's morally gray, so long as he had the best interests of the HORDE at heart rather than just the Orcs.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:17 PM
Zaelsino Zaelsino is offline

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He'd have been fine if they ran with the "flawed yet honourable hardass with standards" angle from Cata. Between Heart of War, Wrath, The Shattering and Cata, the guy made sense enough if you connected the dots. He could've gone either way with the proper handling.

He wasn't too jarring before they turned him into the grand wizard of the KKK (for no organic reason at all) and a callous, megalomaniacal hypocrite with every positive quality or benefit of the doubt purged from him, all to pave way to what even the writers have summed up as "basically Hitler."

Such a pity.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:33 PM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
He'd have been fine if they ran with the "flawed yet honourable hardass with standards" angle from Cata. Between Heart of War, Wrath, The Shattering and Cata, the guy made sense enough if you connected the dots. He could've gone either way with the proper handling.

He wasn't too jarring before they turned him into the grand wizard of the KKK (for no organic reason at all) and a callous, megalomaniacal hypocrite with every positive quality or benefit of the doubt purged from him, all to pave way to what even the writers have summed up as "basically Hitler."

Such a pity.
I wanted to call him Orc Hitler too, but I felt like I was being melodramatic
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:35 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Old 12-14-2013, 03:39 PM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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Genghis Khan
Best scenario if they even want to make him a villain in the first place!
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So instead of seeing this as a continuation of an era of the 20th century that gave us so much debt and destruction and undermined our liberties and conditions today that are so dangerous, let us think that we are now moving into a new era, a new era where we are going to concentrate on liberty and freedom and property rights and peace. I believe that is the cause that we should lead and I thank you very much for being part of it.~Ron Paul
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:55 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Whoa Xie I know that you want to do Garrosh, and there is nothing wrong with that but I dont swing that way ok?

Instead id like to do Jaina

On a serious note, I would have done him the Mogaba way, from the Black Company, hyper competent, hyper ambitious and ready to play everyone to further his own person with the added bonus of living long enough to realize how much of a douche he was and regretting all his treacherous actions, earning a grim, yet redemptious, end
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:59 PM
Zaelsino Zaelsino is offline

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I wanted to call him Orc Hitler too, but I felt like I was being melodramatic
Is it really invoking Godwin if the writers created those parallels intentionally?
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:07 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by xie323 View Post
NOTE: THIS IS NOT FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE THOUGHT GARROSH WAS A BAD IDEA FROM DAY ONE OR THAT METZEN WANTED US TO HATE HIM FROM DAY ONE!

Since we are better writers than the crap in Blizzard, who has caved in to the masses and ruined him with constant horrific and disjointed writing and disjointed characterization. I ask us--how would we have done Garrosh? Would we also make him a psycopath? Or would we actually explore a morally grey war for all it's worth? If we have to do MoP with a neutral garrosh, how would we do it---who will be our villain isntead?
First of all:

1. Give him a backstory. Introduce his mother, talk about his past, when he was conceived(this helps avoid the age inconsistency)

2. Have Garrosh's hatred of the Alliance come into play when LT. Alverold(whatever happened to him) attacks the Horde with his fleet, killing Cairne.

3. Nazgrel and Garrosh actually meet up and talk, considering their similar character.

4. Give him a cool looking model with his father's lean build, none of this tiny head crap. Also a wild hairstyle, similar but different to his father.

5. Have Garrosh actually recruit new allies into the Horde with his political skills and strength. Not shit like holding magnataur young, but convincing an ogre clan to join after showing the might of the Horde or getting the Dark Trolls of Kalimdor to join by the success of the Darkspear.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:16 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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He never would have gotten promoted in my book, as Thrall wouldn't have been willing to shove Garrosh into a leadership role over far better orcs than he. He'd had to have pried the leadership position from Saurfang's/Nazgrel's/Cairne's dead hands.

Though he'd probably settle for being their attack dog.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:32 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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I always enjoyed Garrosh when he had an honourable side to him, when he felt... Orcish, definitely an antagonist (at least towards the Alliance), but not really somebody who you could really 'hate' for his actions. When Captain Wymor manages to get a wound on Garrosh and he's impressed with it, saying something akin to "You will die with honour, human!" that kind of makes you think Garrosh is honouring his kill rather than just being this brutish, outright villainous, dick. I believe he thinks something similar in Wolfheart about the Night Elves doesn't he?

The major problem I felt was that Garrosh initiated the war in the first place. If Varian had stayed true to his promise in the Undercity rather than pussying out/Blizzard retconning it so Garrosh threw the first stone(s) it would have worked much better for him as a character. After the lessons he learnt in Northrend about "honour" he would have no qualms about pushing the Alliance invaders off the Horde lands, perhaps even pushing deeper into their territory to try and say "Stay out! This is our turf!" but all the while being concious of trying to not slip into bloodlust, executing those who undertake dishonourable acts, honouring and being respectful of those who are worthy foes.

For instance, after a Horde victory maybe he bans his men from desecrating the bodies of the Alliance fallen, telling Sylvanas outright that they died as warriors and NO she cannot raise the dead (whether she stuck to it or not is another story). He lets prisoner live, but he's definitely not happy about them being (in his eyes) cowards. It would be clear that he's not a villain, but nor is he an outright 'good guy' either. Theramore could still occur perhaps, but the mana bomb is used as a final option when the siege itself fails and is whacked with guilt over it, perhaps the Pandaria arc could focus upon him being almost suicidal and reckless in his efforts to regain personal honour by blindly leading the charge himself and causing more harm than good to the land, "Why We Fight" being something Garrosh learns.

In the end, maybe the war draws to a conclusion and he decides to step down from the position. He's not turned Chaotic Stupid so there's no need for the Siege to occur, the Alliance "started" it (even if they feel it was justified) so a 'draw' leaves both sides with no clear victor. Perhaps Thrall comes back since now relative peace has been occurred his military leadership as head honcho is less important.

Last edited by Drusus; 12-14-2013 at 04:40 PM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:14 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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A charasmatic and proud (too proud actually) Orc who's looking out for the interests of his people.

There would have to be some type of things that would change (like the reason for invading Ashenvale) but overall I'd have him be more of a Doomhammeresque figure.

He would however be very utilitarian.
Using questionable (but sound) tactics in order to minimalize losses and win battles.

I'd also maybe have Varian be abit more consistent and warmongery but ehhh.....
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:29 PM
Silveraith Silveraith is offline

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I really like these Garroshs.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:36 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Garrosh in Northrend, not in command, meant to learn from Saurfang, talks to Tuskarr refugees, brings them into the horde with rousing speeches.

Gets in trouble for going out to the front lines to hang with the soldiers too often when Saurfang and Thrall want him to learn to be a commander, while Garrosh is not terribly interested in command initially, and just wants to be an awesome warrior/soldier.

Garrosh is buddies with Dranosh and Jorin who learn alongside him. (Jorin becomes an Orc mage while still respecting the elements and Dranosh is the Fury warrior to Garrosh's "arms")

Saurfang Sr. "Dies" with Bolvar at Wrathgate, Forsaken blight is used to cover Alliance/Horde retreat after Scourge use evil scourge fuckery to kill them both and begin routing their forces.

Garrosh steps up as commander with Dranosh and Jorin as his right and left hand.


Sidenote: Varimathras was killed way earlier on in this iteration, and by killed I mean traded by Sylvanas to the blood elves in an orchestrated little scene to demonstrate to the Orcs the Belfs are super good at handling demons, and give the belfs a powerful fel-battery in the process, paving the way for their Horde membership.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:02 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Instead of becoming Warchief immediately, Garrosh takes over as High Overlord of the Kor'kron Guard and the Horde's military in place of Saurfang, who effectively retires after his son's death.

Garrosh begins to bring in more and more Mag'har into his Kor'kron, enticing them with the promise of fighting in a war, saying that while they missed the original Horde wars, this new one against the Alliance would be even more glorious and result in a Horde victory. Slowly but sure, the Kor'kron Guard becomes more and more Garrosh's personal army.

Thrall leaves a council in his place instead of appointing a new Warchief. This does not sit well with Garrosh, who believes the Horde needs a strong, singular leader - and so he set off to make a name for himself to show his worthiness.

He's practical, a military genius, lives for a fight, and grasps big but at important targets - the biggest being eastern Ashenvale to secure serviceable land for the Horde and Theramore to secure the Horde's lands and borders.

He sets himself up in Warsong Lumber Camp, having it rebuilt in his typical style. He employs druids to help heal the land as the goblins are tasked with cutting it down. He attempts to establish Horde dominance east of Falfarren River,and shows little concern for anything west of it except for Zoram'gar Outpost. He would be content to build up his power within this area first, and would see no need to expend military resources trying to take the whole of Ashenvale. The suitable land he would claim would be good enough unless the Horde expands more. However, when the Alliance/night elves come in force to try and drive him out, a furious Garrosh takes his soldiers and marches out of Horde claimed territory - ordering his Kor'kron forces to burn Silverwind Refuge to the ground, killing everyone there. They retreat to their borders afterwards, but Garrosh leaves an important message to the Alliance: You attack me, and I will respond tenfold. The Horde leaders aren't exactly happy about this, though, as it just pisses off the night elves more and fighting continues on unabated in Ashenvale, and Garrosh didn't get approval for this attack.

With Horde land in Ashenvale relatively secure now, Garrosh focuses on Theramore. They, of course, have opened up a highway to funnel their forces into Horde lands and have laid waste to a Horde town. He will not suffer attacks against the Horde lightly, so Theramore becomes #1 on his list.

Northwatch Hold is first to fall when he has the Rageroar Clan raze it to the ground. Honor Stand falls to the tauren, as do all the other Alliance bases in Southern Barrens except for Fort Triumph. It manages to hold out and block land entrance into Theramore due to Warlord Gar'dul's initial incompetence.

Not to be setback, meets with the Stonemaul clan and strengths the Horde's ties with them. With promises of power and a position in the Horde should they succeed, he orders the ogres to basically hassle Theramore's highway and do as much damage to Theramore and Alliance forces as possible. To Garrosh, they're little more very useful tools to weaken up Fort Triumph enough to get past it by wrecking their supply lines - which works.

So basically things sorta happen as Tides of War. The Horde fights around Theramore. Garrosh pulls them back, and bombs the hell out of the city using multiple of the massive bombs Krom'gar used in Stonetalon. The Horde leaders are shocked - they had never approved of this course of action either, and its extremely overkill. Garrosh justifies it that the weapon used on a druid school was honorless because they were not combatants, but Theramore was a military target that had attacked Horde territory.

If you want to go with the 'Garrosh goes evil' path, then he becomes discontent with the council of leaders that Thrall left in his place. As his victories continue, he begins to see himself as the Horde's leader - and so do his Mag'har Kor'kron. Maybe he tries to declare himself Warchief, and runs off to form his True Horde in a different manner and in a different location and without Old Gods. He's less racist, though still sees the orcs as the main core of the Horde. There would be a true Horde civil war between those who see as Garrosh as the strongest in the room and willing to make the tough calls, and those who think he's going too far and abandoning the honor of the Horde.

Last edited by DerpiusMaximus; 12-14-2013 at 07:04 PM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:39 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Probably not as a Warchief. Would have just kept either Thrall or an alive Draenosh Saurfang instead, while Garrosh takes Saurfang Sr.'s spot as High Overlord.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:52 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Varian Wrynn should of invaded after the Wrathgate. Make the Alliance look more proactive and Garrosh could of been the one in charge when he defended the Horde. I feel like instead Garrosh was used as a plot device to dismantle the noble savage archetype the orcs had. It was pretty sad.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:04 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Kept Garrosh as a General and not the Warchief. The Horde's trump card, their Rommel, their Alexander.

Honourable, fiercely respecting all races who can fight (Which all in WoW can), and yet ruthless in pursuing the Horde's goals across the world and against any foe, not just the Alliance.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:07 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Competent. Not racist.
I'd love to add a really long, detailed, intelligent reply about this but, really, Skytotem sums it up rather nicely.

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
If Varian had stayed true to his promise in the Undercity rather than pussying out/Blizzard retconning it so Garrosh threw the first stone(s) it would have worked much better for him as a character. After the lessons he learnt in Northrend about "honour" he would have no qualms about pushing the Alliance invaders off the Horde lands, perhaps even pushing deeper into their territory to try and say "Stay out! This is our turf!" but all the while being concious of trying to not slip into bloodlust, executing those who undertake dishonourable acts, honouring and being respectful of those who are worthy foes.
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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Varian Wrynn should of invaded after the Wrathgate. Make the Alliance look more proactive and Garrosh could of been the one in charge when he defended the Horde. I feel like instead Garrosh was used as a plot device to dismantle the noble savage archetype the orcs had. It was pretty sad.
Yes and Yes; it's always pissed me off immensely the way they totally ignored Varian's declaration of war in Battle of the Undercity.

Last edited by Hammerbrew; 12-15-2013 at 09:11 AM..
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:25 AM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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You know what? I honestly thing we are just as complicit in what was done to Garrosh as much as Metzen's gang.

Why? Because none of us respected him except the people that knew better. We mocked him and spat on him as he entered the story, even when he tried to change himself. TBC: He was a emo. WOTLK: He was an jerk. CATA: We intrepreted even his positive actions negativitly, created distorted stories to make Caine's death SOLELY his fault, and only see Sylvanas side of the story in that quest. And worst of all, this negativity seeped into Blizzard development itself and for every quest that shows him doing something good, another shows him as a douchebag. This WAS the cause of the disjointed writing--because some of these bad quest developers represented the ignorent masses.

Garrosh's character development for us "fans" that saw what the ignorant didn't. Add up his behaviour in every instance to the Shattering and there is a character development that can allow him to overcome his weak "core" or weak "heart", but the masses looked the other way. And thus, perhaps fearing a "retake movement" rising in WoW(neglecting the entire fact that the retake movement was directed against the bad writing and plot holes within Bioware's endings in the first place that was present with the endings!) Blizzard, already infested with disjointed writing, simply gave in to these demands.

Thus, we should share the blame for this happening to Garrosh. When I heard what is to happen I thought "man, it can't be that bad, right?"--well it was that bad. We have ultimately reaped the whirlwind, we have sown the seeds of our destruction and WE were the ARCHITECTS of our DEMISE.

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Last edited by xie323; 12-16-2013 at 10:29 AM..
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