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  #526  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:35 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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So more than a year before the expansion is released, people are already at each other throats.
Well played Blizzard, well played.
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  #527  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:40 AM
Temo Temo is offline

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Didnt we just come from an Alliance heavy expansion?
Where illidan is promoted nonstop as the savior?
Where there is not one but two entire zones dedicated to nigh elves? 3 if you count suramar.
A human mage is making dad jokes and following us everywhere?
Where Tyrande killed a dragon aspect all by herself?
Where we visit the home planet of the draenei?
Where we see an army of draenei led by a human and a high elf?
Where the worgen foil sylvanas plans of a future for her people?
And sure, varian dies but the horde looks bad when it happens?

Horde bias my ass, you guys just want to be on top, all the time, because of a perceived sense of "deserving it".
And before you shield yourselves on ARMs arguments, his complains (to me) look focused on the unsustainability of the faction war, not on "horde bias".

Jesus.

Edit: sorry for typos, i write from my phone.

Last edited by Temo; 11-05-2017 at 06:54 AM..
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  #528  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:43 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
This. I might actually agree with some of the Alliance players points if they didn't come off as giant psychotic whine factories, who just want Horde players to suffer for some stupid horseshit reason.
As an Alliance poster and Pro-Alliance player and fan of Warcraft, I have to agree. It's pretty bad here. Then again I've taken lengthy breaks from WoW so maybe its just easier for me to distance myself from WoW at the moment and not be so emotionally involved. I mean, was discussing with someone these developments and pondered if Dalaran would land in its crater in the Eastern Kingdoms. I pointed out it was Alliance, technically, and they kind of started saying, "Typical Alliance player. The Horde is evil whenever it tries to defend itself so all neutral factions need to go Alliance to crush the big bad Horde." Honestly my thoughts were more along the lines of, "I can't see the Kirin Tor being alright with Sylvanas using a powerful magical artifact like a fragment of Sargeras' sword to commit mass genocide on Teldrassil," but the way the other person interpreted it made me pause and wonder.

Then I remembered the Horde are getting High Mountain Tauren and Nightborne who WERE neutral so, I'm left thinking they were full of shit.
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  #529  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:46 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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People is complaining about the method by which the Horde is getting the focus, not the fact that it is.
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  #530  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:51 AM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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Originally Posted by taelon View Post
@afaslizo
To explain one example you mentioned afaslizo. The initial alliance experience was better than horde in vanilla. This is because they first designed Kalimdor and afterwards Eastern Kingdoms.
Blizzard starts to develop the horde first and alliance after. It’s why there was no time for alliance stuff in cataclysm anymore and why you saw some weird stuff as an alliance player in Nagrand in WoD.
Ironically though the biggest complaint from horde was the bad flightpaths in vanilla but at the end of the expansion they had superior flightpaths than the alliance. Part due to the Zeppelin transportation.
I remember walking to Kargath very well and about Silverpine's quest layout that made Barrens necessary for everyone including obnoxious chat while the Alliance got Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge and Duskwood as a good solid package. Loch Modan and Darkshore both were viable alternatives in the leveling process. Alliance quests in Hillsbrad were about five levels above Horde quests so ganking on pvp realms made the zone almost unplayable. This left Stonetalon, Ashenvale and later 1k Needles which had asine miles of walking between the quests.

The main grips with the flight paths are the three major blocks in classic: Getting Alliance past the Barrens (Ratchet helped), getting Horde to Kargath and getting to either Swamp of Sorrows or Blasted Lands. Zeppelins made nothing easier about that.

Edit: Also you could lockdown most of Kalimdor Horde Flightpaths by killing Crossroad flightmaster which happened almost daily on both pve and pvp realms.
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Last edited by Afaslizo; 11-05-2017 at 06:54 AM..
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  #531  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:00 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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You're confusing species with cultures and factions. "A human" is just that - a human, unless affiliated with the Alliance it's not Alliance-content. Would you call the Bloodsail Buckaneers Alliance-content?

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Originally Posted by Temo View Post
Didnt we just come from an Alliance heavy expansion?
Alliance and Horde have done jackshit this entire expansion - every bit of action has been done by neutral Class Orders, neutral Dalaran and a neutral Army of Light; i'm not even sure Velen counts as Alliance; the Draenei have always glossed over the faction bullshit when it came down to it and this time too they're actually kind of the only non-idiotic members of either Horde AND Alliance.

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Where illidan is promoted nonstop as the savior?
Illidan the neutral half-elf-half-demon that was literally imprissoned for betraying the night elfs? THE Betrayer? He's not Alliance content.

Quote:
Where there is not one but two entire zones dedicated to nigh elves? 3 if you count suramar.
If you count the non-Suramar-elfs you'll have to count the Highmountain Tauren as Horde, cancelling each other out. (I wouldn't count either.)
Suramar-elfs are not only neutral but apparently now Horde, so i wouldn't count that in the Alliance's favor either.

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A human mage is making dad jokes and following us everywhere?
As much as i'd miss Daddy Khadghar if i planned to play Butt Fuck Azeroth, he's only human, not Alliance. I don't care if they claim to be - if your city lets in, works with and puts all of their resource at the disposal of the Horde too, it's neutral. As it fucking should be.

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Where Tyrande killed a dragon aspect all by herself?
That's not exactly a good thing. And i remember helping.

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Where we visit the home planet of the draenei?
All three rock chunks available to us, two of which are practically identical with their shitty black/orange coloring where you can't tell which side is up.

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Where we see an army of draenei led by a human and a high elf?
Fuckboy and Voidbitch may have been Alliance at some point but they're now leading the neutral Army of Light. They're not Alliance content. Also, they're idiots by following an obviously evil Naru.

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Where the worgen foil sylvanas plans of a future for her people?
Well... the player and Genn do but i suppose i have to give you this one. Then again Sylvanas is still Warchief and Genn's failure to kill her could arguably be made responsible for BFA's shitshow.

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And sure, varian dies but the horde looks bad when it happens?
Ten bucks say Varian will pull a Bolvar, we never saw a body. Give it an expansion or two. Also, the Horde only looks bad if you play only Alliance characters. The Horde version of that cinematic shows that they really had no choice in the matter. This i actually liked, until it was apparently never cleared up upon diplomatic channels. Which is idiotic. Speaking of idiotic, the Alliance had a fucking airship in the area and you REALLY want to tell me nobody on board had an eye on the Horde party and realized they were retreating because they were getting their asses kicked? Hard?

None of this actually makes the Horde look any better; again, both factions pretty much did fuckall during Legion. But you need to twist things hard to call Legion Alliance-heavy.
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  #532  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:01 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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This 'alliance poster' now feels compelled to step up and state the following:
Perceived faction bias is not an argument. It's the name of the problem to begin with.
People counting red and blue flags on a map somewhere is how we get retarded solutions like 'lordaeron in return for all of kalimdor' (or whatever the upcoming stuff amounts to) because somebody tallied some numbers up and it adds up close enough to even from their point of view.

So could we all stop talking about a bullshit concept and get back to the boots-on-the-ground details that actually matter for the video game and story behind it?
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  #533  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:05 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
People is complaining about the method by which the Horde is getting the focus, not the fact that it is.
All this whining of Horde bias is ridiculous. I don't even know what the Horde's identity is supposed to be anymore. We've gone through way too many Warchiefs way too fast, and the idea of Sylvanas being Warchief is just a travesty. Most Horde fans don't seem particularly enthused about the faction right now, and have been patiently waiting for Blizzard to finally fix the whole fucking Horde and get it working again.
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Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
If you count the non-Suramar-elfs you'll have to count the Highmountain Tauren as Horde, cancelling each other out. (I wouldn't count either.)
Suramar-elfs are not only neutral but apparently now Horde, so i wouldn't count that in the Alliance's favor either.

...

Fuckboy and Voidbitch may have been Alliance at some point but they're now leading the neutral Army of Light. They're not Alliance content. Also, they're idiots by following an obviously evil Naru.
Fuckboy and Voidbitch apparently sign up with the Alliance immediately after they get back. So yes, they and the Army of Light are now Alliance content.

Last edited by Krakhed; 11-05-2017 at 07:10 AM..
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  #534  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:12 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Maybe the Alliance takes out Tarren Mill and the Bulwark? We haven't seen quests or a map yet, so let's take the hyperbole down a notch.

Nothing says the Alliance has retreated, or the Horde still hold onto it. Everything they have said and implied is that the Alliance take Tirisfal and Capitol City. Much like we would be miffed/shocked if there was no Alliance resistance at all in Ashenvale and Darkshore, there will undoubtedly be Horde resistance in Silverpine and Hillsbrad.

Stromgarde is about the Horde attempting to cut off the Alliance supply lines from Ironforge and the Southern half of the Eastern Kingdoms, and allow the Blood Elves to encircle them. Meanwhile, the Alliance is attempting to cut the Blood Elves off - maybe we will see some development with the Crusade, and the Alliance leaning hard on them.
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #535  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:13 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Fuckboy and Voidbitch apparently sign up with the Alliance immediately after they get back. So yes, they and the Army of Light are now Alliance content.
I guess that's fair for Fuckboy and Voidbitch. It remains to be seen if they take the Army of Light with them, not just individual light-corrupted Draenei. Now that the Burning Legion is toast i can see a lot of them settling down. If there's a lot of them left, anyway. Apparently they've been taking it up the cloaka for a few millenia before we showed up.
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  #536  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:20 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
I don't even know what the Horde's identity is supposed to be anymore.
That's because Blizzard itself doesn't seem able to decide what they want. Is the Horde the shamanistic underdog us-against-the-world shounen manga protagonist faction that people say it was on WCIII and Vanilla? Or is it the heavy metal demonic berserker 90s dark age of comics anti-hero from WCII and Blizzard promo material?

There are players favoring each option, though from where I'm sitting the majority seem to favor the second one.

The result is the bipolar bullshit we saw in Cata/MoP - Horde characters gleefully conquering and burninating and then turning around and claiming they're actually shamanistic underdogs and it was all Garrosh's and Sylvannas' fault.

Thing is, I can actually see a significant part of the Horde being not okay with the conquering and burninating... But it doesn't really matter, because the conquering and burninating goes forward anyway.

Meanwhile, the Alliance is stuck as the reactive faction. That wouldn't be a huge problem if the reaction went on till the end. But, as I said before, the moment the reaction starts to gain ground, oops, world threat appears, hug and make nice, factions, AND/OR, a wild Horde Rebellion appears.

You know what, I'd actually like to see Alliance drawing first blood in UC this time around, instead of retaliating for Teldrassil.

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
Nothing says the Alliance has retreated, or the Horde still hold onto it. Everything they have said and implied is that the Alliance take Tirisfal and Capitol City. Much like we would be miffed/shocked if there was no Alliance resistance at all in Ashenvale and Darkshore, there will undoubtedly be Horde resistance in Silverpine and Hillsbrad.
I agree with the sentiment here. I think the problem is that while Blizzard confirmed there's resistence in the EK and the Horde's actiavely trying to retake the Undercity, there's no information about Kalimdor, and so people wildly speculate about the situation there and then get mad at these wild speculations.

To be fair, though, Cataclysm does bear witness against Blizzard on this subject, so I don't totally fault Nelves fans for freaking out.

Last edited by Patrick_C; 11-05-2017 at 07:30 AM..
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  #537  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:24 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
I guess that's fair for Fuckboy and Voidbitch. It remains to be seen if they take the Army of Light with them, not just individual light-corrupted Draenei. Now that the Burning Legion is toast i can see a lot of them settling down. If there's a lot of them left, anyway. Apparently they've been taking it up the cloaka for a few millenia before we showed up.
Well, Turalyon was a ranking commander of Xe'ra's branch, and nothing suggests that they're not all signing up with the Alliance. If you're lucky, you're even getting Brothraxion. The Alliance got plenty of cool shit. Magni's not even dead anymore, while Baine's role in Highmountain apparently got cut.
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  #538  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:28 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Well, Turalyon was a ranking commander of Xe'ra's branch, and nothing suggests that they're not all signing up with the Alliance. If you're lucky, you're even getting Brothraxion. The Alliance got plenty of cool shit. Magni's not even dead anymore, while Baine's role in Highmountain apparently got cut.
Lothraxion was Legion's biggest letdown for me. When he showed up, I assumed we would soon see redeemed wrathgards, pit lords (summit lords?), shivarra, sayaad, and all that. In the end, it seems he's unique. Such a pity.
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  #539  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:33 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
That's because Blizzard itself doesn't seem able to decide what they want. Is the Horde the shamanistic underdog us-against-the-world shounen manga protagonist faction that people say it was on WCIII and Vanilla? Or is it the heavy metal demonic berserker 90s dark age of comics anti-hero from WCII and Blizzard promo material?

There are players favoring each option, though from where I'm sitting the majority seem to favor the second one.
The majority favor something inbetween. The honorable warrior. A faction that doesn't take shit from anyone, but doesn't start shit needlessly. One led by a Warchief capable of controlling and disciplining his followers if they do something pants-on-head retarded, and is capable of pragmatic decision-making. He doesn't start a war just because he thinks war is glorious and murder is noble. He starts a war when peace has failed. And then he carries that war to its end.

That is what people want from the Horde. Not shounen underdog shit. Not bloodthirsty murderous barbarians. They want a faction that's both pragmatic and brutal, as well as wise. One that fights when it's time to fight, and keeps their dick in their pants when it's not.
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  #540  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:34 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Except they specifically described it as "Thalyssra and the Nightborne" joining the Horde, and she's effectively the de facto replacement for Elisande as leader of all the Nightborne.

So all those characters I helped - Thalyssra, Oculeth, Valtrois, Silgryn, Ly'leth, Vanthir, Absolon, Arluelle, even Verene and little Korine will be hostile enemies to me because they're folding this unnecessary Allied Race concept into their insipid need to keep revisiting the same stagnant well of childish faction dumbfuckery over and over again.

They've outright poisoned one of the best parts of Legion for me with this idiocy. Antorus isn't even out and in a single weekend they've managed to kill my interest in continuing Legion. Two days ago, despite my issues with the handling of the Broken Shore and Argus, I was still thoroughly enjoying the rest of the current expansion. The Broken Isles were still fun to quest in, and saving the people of Suramar felt like I was doing the right thing for people who deserved to be saved. Now this Blizzcon has made me thoroughly hate this expansion and the next one, because they've preemptively warned me that everyone I've helped will be stabbing me in the back in a year or so for the stupidest reason of all, so I should have just left them to suffer and die at the Legion's hands instead of spending all this time building up and empowering them to betray me.

It's like Blizzard's trying to make me quit. Eleven years I've striven on this forum to rationalize and defend the story's twists and turns, to maintain an at least moderately reasonable if not positive outlook, and now that story's pissing in my eyes for it. With their fixation on Red vs. Blue and fond recollections of World PvP "ganking newbs," it's like they want me to think they're all assholes who prefer the company of parasitic, faction-obsessed fans that only play games to fuck over other people who are trying to play in peace. Only rotten people can't enjoy themselves without knowing they're ruining someone else's fun, and that's the exact type of player the faction conflict caters to first and foremost: people who get their rocks off by knowing they're having a good time because someone else is being screwed.
Come to GW2. Guaranteed Faction Conflict Free. Plus lore nuts are always welcomed in the community, if only to help the devs keep in touch with previous lore and stories as much as possible.
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  #541  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:35 AM
Afaslizo Afaslizo is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
The majority favor something inbetween. The honorable warrior. A faction that doesn't take shit from anyone, but doesn't start shit needlessly. One led by a Warchief capable of controlling and disciplining his followers if they do something pants-on-head retarded, and is capable of pragmatic decision-making. He doesn't start a war just because he thinks war is glorious and murder is noble. He starts a war when peace has failed. And then he carries that war to its end.

That is what people want from the Horde. Not shounen underdog shit. Not bloodthirsty murderous barbarians. They want a faction that's both pragmatic and brutal, as well as wise. One that fights when it's time to fight, and keeps their dick in their pants when it's not.
Well written. This is exactly what I want.
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Did they just say the BL is worse than the Old Gods?
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If BL stands for Blizzard, then yeah.
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  #542  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:36 AM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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I hate to say it, but I hope Thrall ends up Warchief by the end of the expansion. Golden always did good work with him, right? I bet she could write him as a Good Warchief for the Horde again. Much like she seems to be working on redeeming Jaina. Or at least saving her, since she really doesn't need redemption so much as help.
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  #543  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:38 AM
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I hate to say it, but I hope Thrall ends up Warchief by the end of the expansion. Golden always did good work with him, right? I bet she could write him as a Good Warchief for the Horde again. Much like she seems to be working on redeeming Jaina. Or at least saving her, since she really doesn't need redemption so much as help.
If Vol'jin isn't coming back then Thrall really is the best outcome. I'd say Lor'themar but it doesn't feel right having the Warchief be from the EK Horde.
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  #544  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:40 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Well, Turalyon was a ranking commander of Xe'ra's branch, and nothing suggests that they're not all signing up with the Alliance. If you're lucky, you're even getting Brothraxion. The Alliance got plenty of cool shit. Magni's not even dead anymore, while Baine's role in Highmountain apparently got cut.
Meanwhile Cairne's still dead...
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  #545  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:42 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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I dunno why she needs help, considering every time the Alliance turns it's back some green or rotten skinned thing is pulling a dagger out...

If you do the Mage order hall, Khadgar pretty much only has half the council on side. If Jains came in swinging with the Alliance at her back, the city would be at Alliance disposal once again...
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #546  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:45 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by Niryv View Post
The Horde are led by an undead banshee who burns down Teldrassil and Hyjal. The places the Legion/Ragnaros tried to burn and failed.

The Horde are straight up 100% villains this expansion.
From the developer's point of view, they are not. The Horde's actions are portrayed as right, honorable and justifiable right from the start. The cinematic showcases the ALLIANCE attacking Lordaeron. So, it's setting the narrative that the Horde is misunderstood and defending itself from aggression.

Blizzard will do whatever it takes to white wash the atrocities of the Horde, no matter when, how or why they occur. Nothing is ever really done to acknowledge this - it's all wiped under the rug, the Horde mindlessly following along in whatever genocidal plan either Garrosh or Sylvanas has going at the time.

It shows in the unity of the Horde; they immediately bow down and unquestioningly follow Sylvanas, a liar at best and a scheming backstabber at worse, who's mere existence should be abhorrent to the Kalimdor Horde alone.

Why? All because she said three words really loud.
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #547  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:46 AM
Eraclito Eraclito is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Listing this here so I don't forget any details.

All old creature models that have been updated (that I found so far)

-Tarantulas
-Frogs
-House cats
-Northrend spiders
-Earth Revenants
-Wind serpents
-Thunder lizards
-Dimetrodons
-Pigs (two different models, one for creatures one for mini pets)
-Pet turtles
-Hyenas
-Buzzards
-Marmots
Sad they didn't update Gnolls yet, expecially after Hogger win of the cosplay contest. But I'm pretty sure they'll be one of the nest updates ... Well, as allied race they would be even better, but it's "fantasy football"-level speculation.
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  #548  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:48 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Varian is dead.
Sylvanas is warchief. (snorts)
Also, Varian is dead.
The warchief is... (snicker) an elf.
Varian rots and decays to oblivion.

I mean... this sounds like the strongest accidental Alliance favoritism we've seen in decades.

Except for the Night Elves. For Night Elf fans, your game will always be WC3.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 11-05-2017 at 07:51 AM..
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  #549  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:51 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by Temo View Post
Didnt we just come from an Alliance heavy expansion?
Where illidan is promoted nonstop as the savior?
Where there is not one but two entire zones dedicated to nigh elves? 3 if you count suramar.
A human mage is making dad jokes and following us everywhere?
Where Tyrande killed a dragon aspect all by herself?
Where we visit the home planet of the draenei?
Where we see an army of draenei led by a human and a high elf?
Where the worgen foil sylvanas plans of a future for her people?
And sure, varian dies but the horde looks bad when it happens?

Horde bias my ass, you guys just want to be on top, all the time, because of a perceived sense of "deserving it".
And before you shield yourselves on ARMs arguments, his complains (to me) look focused on the unsustainability of the faction war, not on "horde bias".

Jesus.

Edit: sorry for typos, i write from my phone.
Neutrals aren't Alliance, even if they are from the same race. What did the Alliance got from all you wrote ? Nothing. It even lost a lot, that's the trend with neutral factions and Alliance. The former take from the later and never give back.

Honestly, since Horde players always complain about neutrals being aesthitically Alliance, I can't wait to have an expansion where all the factions are Horde Themed and the Horde lose access to its identities (shamans, loas, and all.).
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  #550  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:52 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Varian is dead.
Sylvanas is warchief. (snorts)
Also, Varian is dead.
The warchief is... (snicker) an elf.
Varian rots and decays to oblivion.

I mean... this sounds like the strongest accidental Alliance favoritism we've seen in decades.
Unless you're trolling I don't see how you figure that. Sylvanas is being painted as a messiah/redeemer figure, something should never be said in the same universe as her name given what she's been like since her first introduction. Yet the devs want to push her as the new Thrall for the Horde; a laughable prospect because she wants to use blight and raise the dead, things that were once formerly abhorrent to the Kalimdor Horde - but since they now follow her without question or remorse, they have no leg to stand on anymore.

Yet it's fist pumpingly cool to hear FOR THE HORDE, to have that alpha male macho attitude shoved in your face by the devs, they love to rile up that feeling in the Horde, their enthusiasm and majority of their time goes into that faction and it's clear from their attitudes and interviews.
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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alliance whining, azeroth literally dying, battle for azeroth, for the whored, gilgoblins, mop 2.0 sucks, mop sucks, more like cata 2.0 sucks, quilboar bias, world of warcraft

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