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Old 02-19-2017, 07:08 AM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Default Are Trolls fel immune?

There are no demon-form of Trolls. In a whole history of the game there were no fel-trolls and any form of them like this.
In Chapter 5: The Hunter of Shadows, Trolls do not drink blood of Mannoroth (or it's not showed).
Are Trolls the most proud race in Azeroth?
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:47 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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inb4 upcoming Fel Troll Raid on 7.2.5
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:49 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Have we seen fel goblins?
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:53 AM
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Have we seen fel goblins?
Imps.

@Onyx:
I doubt that they're immune, given that even their arcane empowered descendants aren't immune.

Blizzard simply hasn't shown us any fel trolls, goblins, humans, etc.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:55 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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In before Chronicle shows us young Lothar and Llane killing a fel using Gurubashi Warlord.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:08 AM
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I'm guessing not.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:07 AM
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It's a fascinating question when you dig into it. Not necessarily that they're fel-immune (almost nothing is), but are they extremely resistant to magical corruption?

If we look at Trolls in history, we see they were able to both survive and thrive against Old God and Titan empowered forces alike. One could speculate that evolution drove them to this, where their fight against the Void empowered forces gave them the ability to resist shadow corruption while still utilizing it. And, maybe, it had a side-effect of giving them more resistance to things like the Arcane and Fel as well. Maybe that resistance is in their powers of regeneration, where it requires an overload of magics or chemical infusion before they can mutate, and even then corruption is still held at bay.

Further speculation would imply that if the integrity of their bodies is ever put on the cusp between corruption and regeneration, they simply die (see the aforementioned Vol'jin) unless medical intervention occurs. This is because their bodies treat the corruption like it would a virus instead of cancer, actually attacking and destroying the infected cells instead of leaving them be.

When we consider Night Elves or Dire Trolls, we're seeing this sense of overload. In the former, it was the sheer power of the Well of Eternity that caused the trolls to slowly evolve (each successive generation would be born with their bodies accustomed to arcane magics). In the case of the Dire Trolls, it's goblin alchemy or (again) massive magical influxes that force a change on their bodies before their regeneration can adapt and remove the corruption.

It'd also point towards why their blood magics were so potent, and how Loa might be attracted to that use.

Considering it's highly unlikely we'll ever see a Chronicles statement about this we'll never know, but I do like to think the above is a viable theory at the least.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:18 AM
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If trolls are fel-immune, would they have Zandalari Demoniacs?

The Zandalari Demoniacs seem to be a lot like the later night elf demon hunters (I'm a little surprised they weren't used as ancient inspiration for them, and if they ever allow more DH races trolls would be top on my list because of them). Rather than summoning demons like warlocks and using them as pets, they bring the demons into their soul and body, absorbing their power to become much more powerful. If they were immune to fel, they wouldn't get a power boost from absorbing the demons.

If I had to guess why we don't see many fel corrupted trolls, it's because they already have such a close relationship with their loa. When a troll wants to make a dark pact with a fiendish being for more power, their first reaction is to turn to some of their less savory loa like Hakkar rather than the twisting nether.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
If trolls are fel-immune, would they have Zandalari Demoniacs?

The Zandalari Demoniacs seem to be a lot like the later night elf demon hunters (I'm a little surprised they weren't used as ancient inspiration for them, and if they ever allow more DH races trolls would be top on my list because of them). Rather than summoning demons like warlocks and using them as pets, they bring the demons into their soul and body, absorbing their power to become much more powerful. If they were immune to fel, they wouldn't get a power boost from absorbing the demons.

If I had to guess why we don't see many fel corrupted trolls, it's because they already have such a close relationship with their loa. When a troll wants to make a dark pact with a fiendish being for more power, their first reaction is to turn to some of their less savory loa like Hakkar rather than the twisting nether.
Are Demoniacs still cannon?
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:47 AM
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Are Demoniacs still cannon?
I don't see why they wouldn't be.

I also vaguely remember a zandalari demoniac or two from patch 5.2 but I could be misremembering.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:20 PM
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I don't see why they wouldn't be.

I also vaguely remember a zandalari demoniac or two from patch 5.2 but I could be misremembering.
Did a wowhead search for demoniac and see nothing. Zandalari search shows things like Soultwisters and Archons which were more like shadow priests if I recall.

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Old 02-19-2017, 12:38 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Are Demoniacs still cannon?
Does this count?

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Old 02-19-2017, 01:14 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Does this count?

I think he's referring to how they didn't exist during MoP.
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Old 02-19-2017, 01:34 PM
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I do think Krainz' reference counts as proof of their continued canonicity.

But, I'd still also say that this kind of thing is an example of magical overload rather than base level corruption...which brings about another question...

Do we need to parse the question of "immunity" and "corruption" into levels before we can answer to effect Fel or other magics have on trolls? Full immunity (literally no effect whatsoever) vs. relative immunity (throwing Shadow at a Void Lord would canonically make it stronger) vs. limited immunity (Capable of withstanding ambient exposure to fel, but still being harmed by it in acute doses).

Same for corruption. Chronic vs. Acute? Generational vs. Individual?

I hate when I go clinical study on Warcraft. I mean, I don't, but I do. God I'm a nerd.
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Old 02-19-2017, 04:27 PM
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This is an interesting question, and one I've seen kicked around a few times.

They obviously aren't immune to the effects of fel energy in terms of its destructive capabilities, given that Vol'jin eventually succumbed to his injuries sustained at the Broken Shore (while that could theoretically be the effects of some hitherto unknown poison, that seems less likely, given what we know of Vol'jin's ability to survive even poisons meant to counteract Troll regeneration), we've never seen an example of Trolls mutated by the Fel.

It may be relevant to point out the example of Vula'jin the Void, who regenerated from having the majority of his body destroyed by shadowflame, with no mention of mutation or corruption. So we've a case of a Troll literally bathing in the stuff and coming out of it ostensibly unaffected, when you'd expect to come out the other end with glowing green eyes, at least.

But why? It's not impossible the same loa blessing which provides Trolls their regeneration may also grant them some form of resistance to the influence of Fel. The Night Elves' transformation from Dark Trolls might then be understood as possible given their abandonment of the Loa in favour of worshipping Elune, thus stripping them of their resistance to the transformative effects of the Well of Eternity.

Pure speculation, obviously, but I find that to be at least semi-plausible.
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Old 02-19-2017, 04:33 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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This is an interesting question, and one I've seen kicked around a few times.

They obviously aren't immune to the effects of fel energy in terms of its destructive capabilities, given that Vol'jin eventually succumbed to his injuries sustained at the Broken Shore (while that could theoretically be the effects of some hitherto unknown poison, that seems less likely, given what we know of Vol'jin's ability to survive even poisons meant to counteract Troll regeneration), we've never seen an example of Trolls mutated by the Fel.

It may be relevant to point out the example of Vula'jin the Void, who regenerated from having the majority of his body destroyed by shadowflame, with no mention of mutation or corruption. So we've a case of a Troll literally bathing in the stuff and coming out of it ostensibly unaffected, when you'd expect to come out the other end with glowing green eyes, at least.

But why? It's not impossible the same loa blessing which provides Trolls their regeneration may also grant them some form of resistance to the influence of Fel. The Night Elves' transformation from Dark Trolls might then be understood as possible given their abandonment of the Loa in favour of worshipping Elune, thus stripping them of their resistance to the transformative effects of the Well of Eternity.

Pure speculation, obviously, but I find that to be at least semi-plausible.
Is Shadowflame Fel? I thought it was like Black-Dragon flame or something.


Regardless I'm inclined to agree that Loa-regen gives a measure of protection but if a Troll willingly started using tons of fel magic or drank pit-lord blood that'd change, there just haven't been any trolls that've done that so far.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:07 PM
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Is Shadowflame Fel? I thought it was like Black-Dragon flame or something.


Regardless I'm inclined to agree that Loa-regen gives a measure of protection but if a Troll willingly started using tons of fel magic or drank pit-lord blood that'd change, there just haven't been any trolls that've done that so far.
It's probably Fel.


But yeah, I'd tend to side with Omacron's theory in that Trolls are unlikely to succumb to Fel mutation for the simple fact they've much better sources of mystical power just lying around.
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Old 02-19-2017, 07:52 PM
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Another thing to consider is that trolls were taught Arcane magic by the Mogu, who are also a culture that lacks any interaction with demons as far as I'm aware. By contrast, most other mage societies on Azeroth got their arcane magic in a roundabout way from the highborne (highborne night elves>high elves>human mages>dalaran>everyone else) which had much more contact with the legion and there might be more tomes of demonology lying around.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:34 PM
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Another thing to consider is that trolls were taught Arcane magic by the Mogu, who are also a culture that lacks any interaction with demons as far as I'm aware. By contrast, most other mage societies on Azeroth got their arcane magic in a roundabout way from the highborne (highborne night elves>high elves>human mages>dalaran>everyone else) which had much more contact with the legion and there might be more tomes of demonology lying around.
I don't know there. The Trolls would've had to fight the legion during the WotA, so at that point the cat was out of the bag in both cases. If anything, their more advanced nature would've emphasized their ability to spread the knowledge throughout their society. I think Demoniacs are actually a great example of this if anything.

On the other hand, the Zandalari probably shut down everything except the most secretive cults for the same reason the Night Elves banned use of the arcane all together.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:43 PM
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I don't know there. The Trolls would've had to fight the legion during the WotA, so at that point the cat was out of the bag in both cases. If anything, their more advanced nature would've emphasized their ability to spread the knowledge throughout their society. I think Demoniacs are actually a great example of this if anything.

On the other hand, the Zandalari probably shut down everything except the most secretive cults for the same reason the Night Elves banned use of the arcane all together.
The troll mages didn't summon any demons, though. If you're a modern human or gnome studying magic in Dalaran or Stormwind or whatever, there may be a tome of arcane lore with bits of information from the WotA to plant the seed of dealing with fel in your mind. A troll mage (unless they were trained after joining the Horde and studied with the blood elves or forsaken) wouldn't have access to that knowledge, especially due to their hatred of elves.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:53 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I don't know there. The Trolls would've had to fight the legion during the WotA, so at that point the cat was out of the bag in both cases. If anything, their more advanced nature would've emphasized their ability to spread the knowledge throughout their society. I think Demoniacs are actually a great example of this if anything.

On the other hand, the Zandalari probably shut down everything except the most secretive cults for the same reason the Night Elves banned use of the arcane all together.
Caste based society, so they may have just made demon study "legal" but super regulated in its own little group, ie the demoniacs
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:55 PM
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The troll mages didn't summon any demons, though. If you're a modern human or gnome studying magic in Dalaran or Stormwind or whatever, there may be a tome of arcane lore with bits of information from the WotA to plant the seed of dealing with fel in your mind. A troll mage (unless they were trained after joining the Horde and studied with the blood elves or forsaken) wouldn't have access to that knowledge, especially due to their hatred of elves.
Fair point. That doesn't preclude knowledge that Troll Warlocks would've had though.

Also, would the Demoniac methodology give them the knowledge or just the power of the demon they consumed? If the latter, then it makes sense that they weren't as technically advanced. If the former, and it involved a greater demon like an Eredar, Mo'arg, or Nathrezim, I could imagine some incredible spell-work hidden in some Troll warlock cults.
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:14 AM
Uzlag Thunderfist Uzlag Thunderfist is offline

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I have been roleplaying a troll warlock since Cata, and my fanon is that the Loa's blessing enhance the troll resistance to Fel, but I go a bit further :

I assume that there are Loas whose sphere of influence englobes magic and possibly "dark magic" -Fel, necromancy, void, you name it-
By contracting pacts with certain individual Loas, the troll calls for the protection of his soul/life force, literally making the Loa "fight" the influence of the Fel in his stead. As long as the warlock keeps the Loa pleased, by sending it sacrifices or executing particular rituals in its name, he is left unharmed.

Alas, Loas are flickering benefactors, and it is not unheard of a warlock losing his Loa's favors, the dreadful magics he was using suddenly consuming his body in a matter of seconds, leaving behind a shriveled husk.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:12 PM
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I'm going with "no". We've simply never been presented with any Trolls who've been sufficiently Fel'ed up, the same way we haven't seen any Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen, Pandaren, etc, etc.

Vol'jin sure died easy (for the setting) to a having a Felguard's glaive jammed up his gut.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:47 AM
Asmonplatnum Asmonplatnum is offline

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I'm going with "no". We've simply never been presented with any Trolls who've been sufficiently Fel'ed up, the same way we haven't seen any Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen, Pandaren, etc, etc.

Vol'jin sure died easy (for the setting) to a having a Felguard's glaive jammed up his gut.
What if Vol'jin's soul was taken to the twisting nether as a result of his injury causing him to get a new body in a later expansion possibly even summoned as a future raid boss. On the flip side Vol'jin did not go through the proper rituals to accept the fel corruption so it's highly unlikely.

Also it was stated earlier that humans learned arcanism from the elves but it is more likely that they had prior knowledge seeing how they are the descendants of the Mogu(if I'm not mistaken) and later practiced alongside the elves.

Okay so update I read into the human lore a bit and realized I was wrong about the Mogu, instead it was the Vrykul.

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