Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > Blizzard Discussion > StarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-23-2007, 05:11 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

Arch-Druid
Flamestrider's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,070

Default

"Born from the shadow" and "bathed in the shadow" are not synonymous. The former implies that they were created by dark necromatic magic, which is not being disputed. Everybody knows that. The latter implies that necromancy sustains their animation; that their life-blood, so to speak, is negative energy. That is conjecture.

Tim: Everybody agrees that the members of the RAS are generally pretty evil bastards. The leaders deathguard have also been shown to be horribly merciless in their methods. But most of the miscellaneous Forsaken quests you can pick up are from regular civilians, haunted by some tragedy in their past that they ask you to help set right. These quests are no more sadistic than any other "kill that guy I don't like" quests in WoW.
__________________
Many thanks to handclaw for his amazing rendition of Kargath Bladefist, which is now my avatar.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-23-2007, 05:40 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

Loremaster
Kenzuki's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Gates of Twilight
Posts: 9,954

Default

Not according to the RPG it's not.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-23-2007, 07:29 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,551

Default

It still hasn't been entirely set in stone just what the Shadow is, as far as its capacity for directly influencing things. On the one hand at times it seems like simply the inverse of the Light; the opposite sides of the same overarching essence of reality and inseperable from each other. Other times it's portrayed as a sort of "lack of the Light", such as when a Naaru is bereft of the Light's energy and becomes something empty and dark until it regains that power.

For the Forsaken it often feels more like the representation of an idea than some big "pool" of dark energy they found and started tapping. Like the Shadow is in essence their absolute denial of the Light which failed to save them. It isn't like the various sentient or otherwise "active" forces of evil, deliberately driving those it touches to behave a certain way. Instead the Shadow doesn't seem intended to be any more self-aware than the Light is, and in fact comes across as more of a "result" when it manifests. At times it seems to bear the occasional moniker "Forgotten Shadow" because it's unusual for anyone to even comprehend it as a real and distinct force in the universe without having first willfully abandoned the Light and succumbed to ultimate despair. After all, it'd hardly be in keeping with their nature for the demons of the Legion to willingly acknowledge that they're just borrowing their dark energies from some greater power in the universe.

Dark magic may be involved in sustaining the undeath of the Forsaken, but there's a lot of "mundane" interaction involved. Renaimation in WC often involves a heavy dose of what passes for science in that world, specifically through the use of alchemy, and the Plague in particular is as much a "scientific" medly of potions and mixtures as it is a manifestation of necromantic power. It could be that the magic component is just the catalytic impetus that starts the reanimation, and that from then on they're kept functioning by an alchemically mutated biology that kicks in as part of the process of being made undead by the Plague. It could even provide a reasonable backup for the game mechanic-oriented change from undead to humanoid in WoW. The Scourge undead could be rife with energies of undeath because as part of the Scourge, as they are prepetually immersed in the will and commands of the Lich King, as well as contributing to the strength he draws from each soul under his control, and so they are vulnerable to things which specifically cause harm to entities possessed of those energies. the Forsaken, on the other hand, aren't part of that psychic "communal enslavement" and could physically be bereft of actual necromantic energy, now running entirely on the physical, organic systems that the Plague first initiated. At the same time, any undead created without the Plague would be vulnerable as well because if spells alone reanimated them, then the spells would remain ever-present within them to sustain their undead state.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:55 AM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

Loremaster
Kenzuki's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Gates of Twilight
Posts: 9,954

Default

The Blight Plague was necromantic in nature, which is both a type of arcane magic and yet also borrows power from The Shadow it would seem. Thus the Forsaken and any other undead risen by the Blight Plague would have been animated by these powers and indeed it is the thing keeping them animated. This is my opinion of course based on what information we have, you may feel otherwise in that the Forsaken are considered "living creatures" even though they are called "The Undead"
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-24-2007, 05:50 PM
Nerub29 Nerub29 is offline

Ranger
Nerub29's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 305

Default

I had read all of your comments regarding the problems you think Burning Crusade has in its lore. And I agree with many of the things you say. However, I have beggining to ponder myself with one question.

Why if these criticisms were adressed at Blizzard Forums (both European and USA) under a well prepared, easy to read and eye-catching format? Could it change somethings in the development of WoftLK, improving them considerably?

Well, I don't actually expect that the developers pay attention to it, but it's in the range of the possibilty, an interesting possibility indeed and it could save the community of a lot of "lorelol".

However, such thing should be done carefuly and with good preparation. Not only dragging some pieces of texts from one place and another and copy-paste them, but it would actually require a very good thought process, agude sense, intense revision, and of course, getting rid of any "agressive" stance: "Is more effective to atract flies with honey than vinegar" (or at least that is what I would suggest).

Why? Well.....why not?

In another theme, why are the nerubians cited as worshippers of an Old god, when, if I remember, they had the thought that "it's unseful to worship beings that they don't care or want to destroy you" or something similar? (<<< May I ask you: Should I open a thread for this question or move it to one of the expansion threads?).

Last edited by Nerub29; 08-24-2007 at 05:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-24-2007, 06:22 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,551

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerub29 View Post
In another theme, why are the nerubians cited as worshippers of an Old god, when, if I remember, they had the thought that "it's unseful to worship beings that they don't care or want to destroy you" or something similar? (<<< May I ask you: Should I open a thread for this question or move it to one of the expansion threads?).
The Nerubians are only suspected of perhaps having connections to an Old God, in part because their cousins the Qiraji are actually serving one. Whether Cthun actually kept any hold over the Nerubians by the time they departed is unknown. It's possible that they simply became too geologically remote for his influence to affect them from beneath the sands of Silithus. It's fairly likely that the Faceless Ones and Forgotten One beneath Northrend are affiliated with an Old God given that they share the same "tentacled and shapeless" motif that accompanies the Old Gods' Lovecraftian theme, but even their connection isn't a 100% verified fact, and even if they are the specifics of their reltaionship with the Old Gods remain unknown. Whatever the case, upon discovering these creatures in WC3, Anub'arak seems noticeably shaken, as if he's encountering something long thought dead and gone, or at least as if some legendary terror from the distant past had suddenly materialized before him. It could be that the Forgotten One and Faceless Ones were simply present when the Nerubians first split from the original Aqir race and moved north, and were forced farther underground by the arriving swarms of spider-people. Or perhaps they always were nothing more than legend as far as the Nerubians were concerned, being only rarely encountered by those who traveled far enough beneath the earth to reach them. However, Anub'arak seemed downright startled (or as startled as his dead, emotionless voice allows for, anyway) to find that these creatures were more than legend and in fact existed, so whatever connections link them seem to have blured over time, or he'd have not been so surprised to see them.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-24-2007, 09:50 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,378
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

It's been all but confirmed at blizzcon that the forgotten one is an old god.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-25-2007, 02:28 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

Elune
Kerrah's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 11,000

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
It's been all but confirmed at blizzcon that the forgotten one is an old god.
What would be the idea to kill it off in tFT when you can raid it in WoW?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.