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  #26  
Old 08-01-2016, 04:25 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Glad to see they managed to make Guldan into something more than a puppet. This is more how i envisioned Guldan. Homever it sounds too much like fan fiction tbh .
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2016, 04:26 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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  #28  
Old 08-01-2016, 04:29 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
So the first person in the audio was a Nightfallen trying to eat Gul'Dan? Was Gul'Dan in Suramar first?
It was a nightfallen, I believe, yes.

Based on how Gul'dan's being told to go north, I think he's on the southern side of the Broken Shore (probably near where we land, actually). I guess there were some nightfallen scrambling about there.
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2016, 04:33 PM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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It was a nightfallen, I believe, yes.

Based on how Gul'dan's being told to go north, I think he's on the southern side of the Broken Shore (probably near where we land, actually). I guess there were some nightfallen scrambling about there.
He had to find a boat though. The Nightfallen's narration in the beginning also said he was near Watcher territory, so I think he might be in Azsuna?
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  #30  
Old 08-01-2016, 04:58 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
Thal'dranath mentioned as the island Gul'dan raised in his previous life. It's another name for Broken Shore apparently since Kil'jaeden says Tomb of Sargeras is on it.
Either retconned or the Broken Shore was just a part of that isle.
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  #31  
Old 08-01-2016, 05:06 PM
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"'Sup bitches?"
"Fuck off Khadgar nobody likes you"
"Yup, definitely Maiev"

This is the most important scene this MUST be the sole picture for this section
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  #32  
Old 08-01-2016, 06:57 PM
Eelgrin Eelgrin is offline

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Nice to hear the word "timeline" used in something official again. After the Garrosh short story and once WoD was going, it seemed like they were trying to avoid mentioning it. Leaning into it is the better approach imo.

Also like how Gul'dan seems to view his MU counterpart with suspicion and disdain. "That Gul'dan sucked. I'm the real one." Since WoD when it became likely that AU Gul'dan would end up retracing his steps, I've been looking forward to it, and thought this was a very in-character way for him to think about it.
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  #33  
Old 08-01-2016, 08:03 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Interesting how Kil'jaeden pointedly steers Gul'dan's line of questioning away from things that might let him completely deduce why his other self had actually done what he did on the Broken Isles.

Kil'jaeden passing him off to Sargeras. The convenient promise of godlike power in the tomb. The portal that turns out to actually be what's there. What seemed like providence granting the old Gul'dan a chance at immense power was just part of the plan. MU Gul'dan was being jerked around the whole time. He thought he was on his own seeking personal power in the absence of his demon benefactors, but he was really still being steered by the Legion all along without even realizing it.

I don't really even think AU Gul'dan is directly suspicious of his other self. I think he's more suspicious of what Kil'jaeden's not telling him about his other self. Kil'jaeden says MU Gul'dan failed because of disloyalty, but he doesn't say it was Gul'dan's disloyalty. They're the ones who clammed up and left bread crumbs that would lead him to where they wanted him to be without knowing why they would want him to go there.

While strange to consider, it would seem that MU Gul'dan's downfall can partly be traced to him being too trusting of his masters' motives and failing to realize he was being deceived all along. Which makes it no wonder that as he approaches the means to ushering in the Legion's invasion, Kil'jaeden would clearly prefer that this Gul'dan not figure out just how equally disposable he really is and start thinking too independently.

Naturally, it being Gul'dan, that's exactly what he seems to be starting to do.

Last edited by ARM3481; 08-01-2016 at 08:07 PM..
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  #34  
Old 08-01-2016, 11:43 PM
Thornedale Thornedale is offline

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I just like how the narration expands upon the previously shown geography with details here and there, making the world bigger and a little more complex than one would assume it to be just by looking at its game representation.
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:19 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Going to guess that the demons that killed the MU Gul'Dan were sent to kill said disloyal Gul'dan by Kil'Jaeden and weren't some random things left in the tomb.
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  #36  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:24 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Going to guess that the demons that killed the MU Gul'Dan were sent to kill said disloyal Gul'dan by Kil'Jaeden and weren't some random things left in the tomb.
That's a good guess. I have this feeling that there is a lot of foreshadowing for some stuff we will learn in Chronicle Vol. 2 (even more so since Brooks is one of its two authors).
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  #37  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:38 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Going to guess that the demons that killed the MU Gul'Dan were sent to kill said disloyal Gul'dan by Kil'Jaeden and weren't some random things left in the tomb.
That's the thing though. I'm not so sure one could really call MU Gul'dan disloyal to the Legion.

He never betrayed them. Not really. Had Kil'jaeden remained in touch, he'd have probably kept dancing to the Deceiver's tune as long as the fel goodies and demonic knowledge kept coming. Had Medivh survived, he'd have in all likelihood remained aligned with the Guardian and, through him, the plans of Sargeras that brought them together. Gul'dan just struck out independently to seek power for himself because Medivh was gone, he hadn't heard from Kil'jaeden since Draenor, and the only lead he had for continuing what he'd started with Medivh was the location of the tomb.

Killing him there feels less like punishing disloyalty, and more like disposing of a pawn who'd finally exhausted his usefulness. Gul'dan raised the island and opened the way into the tomb, but he did it with an entire angry Horde army breathing down his neck that was already slaughtering his own two clans, so he probably wouldn't have been able to orchestrate the opening of the portal under such circumstances.

So maybe Kil'jaeden opted to get rid of MU Gul'dan at that point because he'd done all he could do, and the Deceiver figured with the physical barriers to the tomb removed and the wards against Azeroth-born intrusion broken, he could arrange for another servant to come back later and finish the job.

Which, one might speculate, could have been Kil'jaeden's ultimate intent when recruiting Illidan in TFT. But with that not panning out, we have him relying on another Gul'dan instead.

Last edited by ARM3481; 08-02-2016 at 12:47 AM..
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  #38  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:47 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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That's the thing though. I'm not so sure one could really call Gul'dan disloyal to the Legion.

He never betrayed them. Not really. Had Kil'jaeden remained in touch, he'd have probably kept dancing to the Deceiver's tune. Had Medivh survived, he'd have in all likelihood remained aligned with the Guardian and, through him, the plans of Sargeras. Gul'dan just struck out independently to seek power for himself because he hadn't heard from Kil'jaeden since Draenor and the only lead he had for continuing what he'd started with Medivh was the location of the tomb.

Killing him there feels less like punishing disloyalty, and more like disposing of a pawn who'd finally exhausted his usefulness. Gul'dan raised the island and opened the way into the tomb, but he did it with an entire angry Horde army breathing down his neck that was already slaughtering his own two clans, so he probably wouldn't have been able to orchestrate the opening of the portal under such circumstances.

So maybe Kil'jaeden opted to get rid of MU Gul'dan at that point because he'd done all he could do, and the Deceiver figured with the physical barriers to the tomb removed and the wards against Azeroth-born intrusion broken, he could arrange for another servant to come back later and finish the job.

Which, one might speculate, could have been Kil'jaeden's ultimate intent when recruiting Illidan in TFT. But with that not panning out, we have him relying on another Gul'dan instead.
Unless Kil'jaeden tried to contact Gul'dan once Medivh had been killed, and the orc ignored him. I would say Kil'jaeden could easily interpret that as a display of disloyalty.
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  #39  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:49 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Unless Kil'jaeden tried to contact Gul'dan once Medivh had been killed, and the orc ignored him. I would say Kil'jaeden could easily interpret that as a display of disloyalty.
There's no evidence he did, though. Nothing's ever indicated that MU Gul'dan ever heard from Kil'jaeden again after the fall of Shattrath. By all indications, the Deceiver never came to call again once the Horde ball was passed to Sargeras/Medivh.

Which makes sense. Post-Second Was, Gul'dan basically acted like someone alone and desperate to regain power after Medivh's death and Doomhammer's coup left him without his truly "informed" allies other than possibly Cho'gall (hard to say just how much Gul'dan actually told him.) If he'd had the option of renewing his tied to Kil'jaeden, he'd have probably jumped at it, since the alternative left him dodging around while coming up with excuses to keep Orgrim from just deciding to pulp his skull and be done with it.

Last edited by ARM3481; 08-02-2016 at 12:54 AM..
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  #40  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:17 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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There's no evidence he did, though. Nothing's ever indicated that MU Gul'dan ever heard from Kil'jaeden again after the fall of Shattrath. By all indications, the Deceiver never came to call again once the Horde ball was passed to Sargeras/Medivh.

Which makes sense. Post-Second Was, Gul'dan basically acted like someone alone and desperate to regain power after Medivh's death and Doomhammer's coup left him without his truly "informed" allies other than possibly Cho'gall (hard to say just how much Gul'dan actually told him.) If he'd had the option of renewing his tied to Kil'jaeden, he'd have probably jumped at it, since the alternative left him dodging around while coming up with excuses to keep Orgrim from just deciding to pulp his skull and be done with it.
There is no evidence now, yes. However, as I pointed out earlier, this audio might be foreshadowing some things we will learn from Chronicle Vol. 2.

As for your evaluation, can't say I really agree. Even this Gul'dan shows some signs of disloyalty, and he was not abandonded by Kil'jaeden at all. Why would the first Gul'dan embrace his old master who in his mind left him to die on Draenor, if he thought he could claim the power of Sargeras for his own and match every power, even Kil'jaeden's?

Plus, there is some reason in thinking that it is neccessary that an orc warlock opens the portal, as the barriers laid down by Aegwynn prevents any being from Azeroth or a demon from doing so. Hence why the Legion did not use the Broken Isles during the Third War, and why Kil'jaeden didn't order Illidan to open the portal there later on as well.
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  #41  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:23 AM
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If Rise of the Horde is at least, partially canon, then it actually makes sense.

MU Gul'dan had no reasons to listen to Kil'jaeden anymore.

Remember, that in the MU, Kil'jaeden just used Gul'dan for his revenge against Velen and the Draenei. After this was done, they had served his purpose and he left them to rot.

Originally, it was never Kil'jaeden's intention to use Gul'dan to open the portal in the Tomb. It was Sargeras'.

Plus, Gul'dan actually did betray the Legion, when he tryed to access Medivh's mind to find the location of the Tomb. (He was actually lucky that Medivh was "distracted" at this time.

Yes, his death resulted in Gul'dan being in a coma for weeks. But I can't imagine as being powerful as Medivh, would have resisted Guldan's intrusion more, if there wern't Khadgar, Garona and Lothar...)
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  #42  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:24 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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There's no evidence he did, though. Nothing's ever indicated that MU Gul'dan ever heard from Kil'jaeden again after the fall of Shattrath. By all indications, the Deceiver never came to call again once the Horde ball was passed to Sargeras/Medivh.

Which makes sense. Post-Second Was, Gul'dan basically acted like someone alone and desperate to regain power after Medivh's death and Doomhammer's coup left him without his truly "informed" allies other than possibly Cho'gall (hard to say just how much Gul'dan actually told him.) If he'd had the option of renewing his tied to Kil'jaeden, he'd have probably jumped at it, since the alternative left him dodging around while coming up with excuses to keep Orgrim from just deciding to pulp his skull and be done with it.
At this point it seems pretty likely they are going to completely alter much of the Second War stuff with Chronicle's and the tidbits we'll get in this audio book.
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  #43  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:54 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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At this point it seems pretty likely they are going to completely alter much of the Second War stuff with Chronicle's and the tidbits we'll get in this audio book.
Honestly, I would not call this an alteration, more an expansion/elaboration, as it does not exactly change anything. However, you are right, there will be many alterations. Prepare to see a great deal of the Tides of Darkness novel thrown to the dogs (not that that's a bad thing at all).
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  #44  
Old 08-02-2016, 02:07 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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The Novel was a creation of it's time.

Characterization was on spot, it only would have needed to be longer. (Since the main criticism by lore fans was that the WCII sidestories were missing.)

Rise of the Horde imo. will be at least partially retconned.

They already when with "clan-less" Gul'dan in the Movie Canon, so I can imagine they might do the same in Chornicles Vol. 2.

And as said:

Kil'jaeden betrayed Gul'dan in the MU, so it's absolutly clear that Gul'dan didn't contact him.

AU Gul'dan however, isn't aware of his + Kil'jaeden is using more active control on him this time to make sure that Gul'dan this time succeeds in his master's task...
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  #45  
Old 08-02-2016, 04:47 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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So it seems this is one of the reasons why demons are the same people across all timelines. Gul'dan is in direct contact with the Kil'jaeden. Not an AU knock-off, but the real deal. He's following the directions of the guy that spoke to his MU self directly. If he was dealing with an AU KJ, AU KJ wouldn't have any knowledge of the MU Gul'dan.
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  #46  
Old 08-02-2016, 04:54 AM
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German Version is also on now and HOLY FUCK, THEY GOT DAVID NATHAN AS NARRATOR!!!!!!!!!
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  #47  
Old 08-02-2016, 04:58 AM
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German Version is also on now and HOLY FUCK, THEY GOT DAVID NATHAN AS NARRATOR!!!!!!!!!
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/David-Nathan/


for those who dont know who that is.
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  #48  
Old 08-02-2016, 05:21 AM
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  #49  
Old 08-02-2016, 06:00 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Kil'Jaeden kalling Khadgar and Maiev irrelevant... What the actual fuck.
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  #50  
Old 08-02-2016, 06:03 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Kil'Jaeden kalling Khadgar and Maiev irrelevant... What the actual fuck.
I think it's more likely that he just didn't want to risk it. If his ambush went tits up, the whole plan would be botched. Better just to get Gul'dan to the Tomb, do his job, then deal with Khadgar and the Watchers later. Khadgar IS powerful, as well as backed up by Watchers who are on alert. Even if Gul'dan didn't die it would put the entire garrison on full alert. Not to mention Gul'dan spent the entire audio drama musing "Oh fuck I hope Khadgar isn't following me."
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