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  #51  
Old 06-26-2009, 10:31 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Seems most likely that if the understanding of druidism were expanded upon, it would probably be a double-sided thing, rather than the Tauren heading off and becoming a different group of druids. The NPC speech seems to me to suggest that perhaps there's more for both the Tauren and the Night Elves to learn about it, not that the Tauren should forsake what the Night Elves have taught them and seek a different path, nor that the Night Elves would somehow be excluded from learning anything more than they already have.

It could very well mean that they might begin branching out their understanding of druidism among all druids, since even the NPC himself states that what Hamuul's learned and passed to his fellow Tauren isn't wrong, it just might not be the entire picture. That wouldn't amount outright to Tauren teaching Night Elves, since the Tauren have been cut off from the old teachings for countless ages. From a knowledge standpoint, they'd be starting from the same basic place as the Night Elves.

After all, consider Shamanism. A proper understanding of it doesn't entail picking an elemental force to heed and ignoring the rest. It's all about balance between things, which means interacting with all aspects of the calling.

The Light probably doesn't fit as simply being one half of druidism's teachings; it's a far more basic and disembodied concept than that, and it already has a natural counterpoint in the Shadow. One of the underpinnings of the Light is that it exists within all things; that whether somebody's a druid, a mage, a shaman or a soldier, by their actions they can still be doing the Light's work as much as any priest or paladin is. Such matters of morality aren't an inherent aspect of druidism, as the balance of nature isn't bound by moral conventions of right and wrong. There is no murder or theft in the wilds; it's about balance and survival, and good and evil aren't really directly covered by druidism's role.
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  #52  
Old 06-26-2009, 10:38 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Perhaps nature is exactly halfway between light and shadow, a perfect balance of chaos and order? Druids are, in most fantasy works, depicted as neutral, and shadow would be chaotic while light would be lawful.
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  #53  
Old 06-26-2009, 11:05 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I find it very possible that they could start changing the styles of each class. One look for the alliance, another look for the horde. Sun and Moon.

Also, that could start preparing the setting for 2 different horde/alliance confronted factions at the Emerald Dream.
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  #54  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:04 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Perhaps nature is exactly halfway between light and shadow, a perfect balance of chaos and order? Druids are, in most fantasy works, depicted as neutral, and shadow would be chaotic while light would be lawful.
Reminds me of HoMM4. You had six factions: Life, Order, Death, Chaos, Nature and Might. Might was a neutral faction, and each of the other five were set up on a circle, allied with the guy to the left and the right of them. Nature's allies? Life and death, of course.
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  #55  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
Reminds me of HoMM4. You had six factions: Life, Order, Death, Chaos, Nature and Might. Might was a neutral faction, and each of the other five were set up on a circle, allied with the guy to the left and the right of them. Nature's allies? Life and death, of course.
Life <> Nature <> Death <> Order <> Chaos <> Life?
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  #56  
Old 06-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Order and Chaos were in opposite positions, but yeah, pretty much. Always thought it was weird that Order and Chaos were allied, though.
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  #57  
Old 06-26-2009, 03:22 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
Life <> Nature <> Death <> Order <> Chaos <> Life?
No:

Life <> Nature <> Chaos <> Death <> Order <> Life

I like Death being between Chaos and Order and Order being between Life and Death. There's some philosophical statement in there, I bet.
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  #58  
Old 06-26-2009, 05:27 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Well, apparently I don't remember HoMM4 very well. I'm also not at all surprised by this, as it was not a particularly great game.
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  #59  
Old 06-26-2009, 06:29 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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What? I do not recall that the Wizards of Order were anyway allied with the Bandits of Chaos? Its like the Kreegans would side with the Ancients. >.>
And I was under the impression that it was like this:

Life VS Death VS Nature VS Chaos VS Order

Order and Life does not battle each other.

So we have some alternatives why they were introduced.

A) Just there for flavor and nice lore. Makes the world more alive.
B) Possible begining for a new order of Druids.
C) Possible introduction for the next healing hero class.
D) Possible for the introduction as an faction in the Emerald Dream. Sunreavers could be the "Solar Druids" (lol cant come up with a name) SC "Lunar Druids" and please understand lol. Im not suggesting that all Blood Elves should reroll Druids.

But in my opinion H4 was a horrible game compared to the others of the seris :S
The change from H3, which was hugely popular, became to much.

Last edited by RobLore; 06-26-2009 at 06:32 PM..
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  #60  
Old 06-28-2009, 06:47 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Uh oh.

Wow.com linked to us.

And not only that, but the entire fucking news post basically just parrots our discussion here. Way to go, guys.
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  #61  
Old 06-28-2009, 06:59 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Yay! We are getting famous!

No, where is my money? We all know I DID ALL THE JOB!

But on the serious part, where did anybody in this thread mention Blood Elf Sun-Druids? O.o

Last edited by RobLore; 06-28-2009 at 07:02 PM..
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  #62  
Old 06-28-2009, 07:06 PM
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  #63  
Old 06-28-2009, 07:15 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Hmm thansk im lazy at 04:11 and will go to sleep soon
I think the Botanist is just... a Botanist
Or does he shapeshift into druid bears or something?
I doubt we will see Blood Elf Druids and Tauren paladins. It kind of breaks up the balance. Horde gets +2 new classes and an extra druid.
If you have not noticed, there are 3 priests on Horde and 3 priests on Alliance etc. 3 Paladins on Alliance and 1 shaman, and 3 shamans on Horde and 1 paladin.

Perhaps Sunfire (which is an existing spell) could be the 61 point Balance talent in the next expansion?
Right now Boomkins do a cycle between Wrath and Starfire. Sunfire/Sun Burst/Solar Ray whatever could be a short cooldown spell between the Wraths and Starfires
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  #64  
Old 06-28-2009, 07:18 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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He summons trees, if I am correct.

And I did recently find out about the "sunfire" spell... I guess I could get behind that if it was added to the druid repertoire in a future expansion. Hell knows balance druids need more than just rotating wrath and starfire with the occasional insect swarm and moonfire.
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  #65  
Old 06-28-2009, 08:01 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Summoning trees does not seem like something a magical botanist could not do.
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  #66  
Old 06-28-2009, 08:26 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
I think the Botanist is just... a Botanist
Or does he shapeshift into druid bears or something?
He summons treants and assumes a druid-like Tree Form at various points during the fight.

Most likely, the Botanist NPC's (and boss) in the Botanica were researchers who used arcane magic to manipulate the plants under their control, and not actual druids interacting with natural magics like those of the Night Elves and Tauren do.

Despite limitations placed on player abilities for balance reasons in-game, arcane magic is probably capable of accomplishing many of the same things as druidism (or even shamanism, for that matter) in the most basic, visible sense (in other words, to the untrained eye). Shapeshifting into a Tree Form, animating plantlife - given the diverse and remarkable manifestations of arcane magic we've encountered in various other parts of Azeroth, such things are likely well within the capabilities of a mage who has enough power and is willing to learn how through the application of certain arcane spells.

The difference is, when a druid calls upon such power, he/she does so in a manner that doesn't disrupt the balance of nature. When users of arcane magic seek to, say, control an army of treants, they apply raw power to forcibly compel the same results, thus over time potentially corrupting and twisting the subjects of their spells. Hence, High Botanist Freywinn and others like him were probably mages of varying strength controlling plants with arcane magic and perhaps alchemy rather than actual druids. So we have the likes of Warp Splinter, who comes across as an Ancient that's been corrupted by exposure to arcane energies from the experiments performed by the Blood Elves and Satyr within the Botanica.
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  #67  
Old 06-28-2009, 08:56 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I actually think that they were using alchemy or other forms of science rather than outright arcane magic. Botany is a scientific discipline, after all, and many alchemist mobs can be found in the instance. They were probably using chemicals to control plants, just as some real life animals do.
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  #68  
Old 06-28-2009, 09:47 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Despite limitations placed on player abilities for balance reasons in-game, arcane magic is probably capable of accomplishing many of the same things as druidism (or even shamanism, for that matter) in the most basic, visible sense (in other words, to the untrained eye).
Indeed, we’ve even seen Arcane magic used to heal in sources like Night of the Dragon (where mages did pretty much anything and everything).


Quote:
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I actually think that they were using alchemy or other forms of science rather than outright arcane magic. Botany is a scientific discipline, after all, and many alchemist mobs can be found in the instance. They were probably using chemicals to control plants, just as some real life animals do.
Based on them being Blood Elves, plus the fantastic results, its a safe bet magic was involved somewhere and it wasn't straight science. I mean, what combination of chemicals turns you into a tree? Alchemy itself is a kind of magical pseudo-science anyway.
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  #69  
Old 06-29-2009, 04:25 AM
Fooliecoolie Fooliecoolie is offline

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Night Elf Icon (War3) War of the Ancients

In the trilogy, there was mentioned of night elves who followed a calling that would take them to woods where they began acting as protectors and servants which Malfurion and Illidan were trying to follow.(Illidan tried to seek to surpass his brother down this path but rejected it when he felt that it could not give him the power that he wanted. He chose arcane sorcery instead.) Malfurion, in the book, was considered Cenarius' prize student and he was the first to be taught how to enter the Emerald Dream, the domain of Ysera who is also rumored to be Cenarius' mother. Also another thing about night elves, their powers actually wane during the day so Cenarius had Malfurion train mostly during the day to compensate for this very limitation.

Last edited by Fooliecoolie; 06-29-2009 at 04:30 AM.. Reason: additional info
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  #70  
Old 06-29-2009, 04:38 AM
Ded Chikn Ded Chikn is offline

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I thought Ysera was only the "adopted" mother of Cenarius because Elune couldnt look upon her son with out remembering that night with the moose and bottle of tequila.
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  #71  
Old 06-29-2009, 05:01 AM
Fooliecoolie Fooliecoolie is offline

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I thought Ysera was only the "adopted" mother of Cenarius because Elune couldnt look upon her son with out remembering that night with the moose and bottle of tequila.
Well since Krasus/Korialstrasz who mentions it, it probably means Alexstrasza has some interesting things to say during their pillow talk...
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  #72  
Old 06-29-2009, 05:13 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Well since Krasus/Korialstrasz who mentions it, it probably means Alexstrasza has some interesting things to say during their pillow talk...
Welcome to the forums sir! =)
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  #73  
Old 06-29-2009, 05:50 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Now they dont want to link us again

Why must Scrolls of Lore look like a communist hole! >;(

We are looking like communist anti-new member elitists...
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  #74  
Old 06-29-2009, 06:05 AM
handclaw handclaw is offline


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Now they dont want to link us again

Why must Scrolls of Lore look like a communist hole! >;(

We are looking like communist anti-new member elitists...
Ehm...

I thought we are lookling like communist anti-roblore elitists...

(You tempted this answer... )
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  #75  
Old 06-29-2009, 06:13 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Yes, somebody probably saw what asses the people are compared to other forums on SoL without much moderation and any rules.

Lol
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