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Old 08-29-2017, 10:42 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Default It's time for Arthas to Return

After Illidan came back and got such a major role, I think it's time for probably the most popular character of the franchise to come back and do what he should have done in WotLK. That xpc didn't characterize him well other than the ending.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:20 PM
Almed Almed is offline

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Wait until they need to revive interest in Warcraft again (which is what the Legion expansion is trying to do). When that happens, the king shall return.

To be frank, I wouldn't support Arthas coming back unless he was back as his TFT self with his WotLK antics with its novel retconned as Frostmourne overloading.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:25 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Arthas's story is over, and the Lich King's continues through Bolvar, and it should stay that way.

However.

In a Shadowlands expansion, I could see Arthas being a character, and I'd support it, as long as he wasn't simply revived, and remained dead afterwards, even if he got some sort of redemption and went to a "better" place.

Last edited by Ethenil; 08-30-2017 at 09:15 PM..
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:35 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I'd rather see Ner'zhul. A being who is the core of the Lich King.

I do support meeting Ghost Arthas in a Shadowlands expansion. Probably coming from an expansion where Bolvar (or someone who has usurped Bolvar, or even Ner'zhul himself is the final boss).
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Old 08-30-2017, 05:52 AM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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This entire Arthas must be purged!

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Old 08-30-2017, 08:07 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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This is now an Arthas memes thread!

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Old 08-30-2017, 08:55 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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this is now an arthas memes thread!
k.

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Old 08-30-2017, 09:31 AM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Arthas's story is over, and the Lich King's continues to through Bolvar, and it should stay that way.

However.

In a Shadowlands expansion, I could see him being a character, and I'd support it, as long as he wasn't simply revived, and remained dead.
It was very poorly handled in WotLK, and seriously, Bolvar is nobody if we compare him to Arthas with popularity.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:13 AM
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Sometimes I think about the (ilgynoth?) line - "The Boy King serves at the master's table" and I think about the Sylvanas short story after wrath where she finds arthas soul in the shadowlands, small and frightened, seeking comfort and protection. But then I remember that N'zoth is in the compass.

Arthas will come back whether its next expac or the one after. I just hope that when he does, he brings necromancers and Lich Queen Jaina with him.

I mean c'mon guys. This is Blizzard. They've been developing necromantic/deathknight content for diablo and hearthstone for the last 2 years. You really think they aren't dying to make an undeath expac again? They operate by one rule, the rule of cool. And right now, the rule of cool is necromancy and sexy powerful women.
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:47 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Heck, no. If they do, they'll probably try to "redeem" him, and we know how well we can expect that to go.

"Arthas was just trying to do the right thing and take control of the Scourge in order to make them stop slaughtering the living, but arrogant, sel-righteous Uther, filled with hate, stood in his way".
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:31 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Heck, no. If they do, they'll probably try to "redeem" him, and we know how well we can expect that to go.

"Arthas was just trying to do the right thing and take control of the Scourge in order to make them stop slaughtering the living, but arrogant, sel-righteous Uther, filled with hate, stood in his way".
Uh, their last redemption, Illidan, has gone extremely well? They've brought him back while still making him a huge asshole and not letting us forget of all the evil stuff he's done?
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:02 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Given that he had lost his soul, I'm not sure whether he can actually be considered responsible for most of his actions.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:55 PM
Arbourean Arbourean is offline

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He still willingly put Quel'thalas to the sword, desecrated the Sunwell, dumped his father's ashes (whom he murdered) onto the ground, slaughtered entire populations and damned countless to eternal servitude.

He possessed agency even if lacking a soul, Arthas was never forced to do any of the things he did.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:09 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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There's nothing left to redeem; what little "good" remained of Arthas was destroyed along with his humanity when Tirion destroyed his heart. That was the good in Arthas.

The rest - the Lich King and later the condemned spirit Sylvanas saw in the darkness - was what remained after he deliberately removed everything about himself that was worth saving. The moment Tirion destroyed that heart was the moment that the only thing left of Arthas was the monster he had become.

One might speculate that the "good" of Arthas - "Matthias Lehner" as it were - may have passed on into the Light or some such thing, but the Arthas that won the internal struggle for control and went on to become Lich King was by definition irredeemable because in removing his humanity he'd knowingly isolated and gotten rid of everything about himself that was still redeemable.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:21 AM
Almed Almed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Given that he had lost his soul, I'm not sure whether he can actually be considered responsible for most of his actions.
Ner'zhul was losing control of Arthas in TFT. He still served.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Almed View Post
Ner'zhul was losing control of Arthas in TFT. He still served.
Yes, he was technically free, but given that he had no soul and therefore lacked a moral compass, I would still say that he was not truly responsible for his actions.

That's the thing with tainted beings like demons or undead; you can only really blame those who willingly gave themselves to corruption. Is Baron Rivendare evil? Sure, but only the elder. His son my have committed atrocities (even after Bolvar became the Lich King), but he's as much a victim as those he killed.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:52 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Yes, he was technically free, but given that he had no soul and therefore lacked a moral compass, I would still say that he was not truly responsible for his actions.

That's the thing with tainted beings like demons or undead; you can only really blame those who willingly gave themselves to corruption. Is Baron Rivendare evil? Sure, but only the elder. His son my have committed atrocities (even after Bolvar became the Lich King), but he's as much a victim as those he killed.
Was Riverdare's son killed, or was he turned?

Arthas gave up his soul which led to him committing those acts. He's not Kerrigan.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:55 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Was Riverdare's son killed, or was he turned?

Arthas gave up his soul which led to him committing those acts. He's not Kerrigan.
He was trying to fight the Scourge, not to serve them when he picked up the sword.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:16 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Was Riverdare's son killed, or was he turned?

Arthas gave up his soul which led to him committing those acts. He's not Kerrigan.
He died helping us kill his father and we didn't give him a proper burial.

Like Slow said, his intentions were somewhat noble and I doubt that he expect servitude to his enemy to be the price he paid to defeat the Scourge.

He certainly had flaws, but I would not call human Arthas evil.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:26 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I don't understand people's obsession with wanting to save Arthas and Garrosh, but completely forget about Deathwing who was driven mad by the Old Gods.
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  #21  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:21 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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I don't understand people's obsession with wanting to save Arthas and Garrosh, but completely forget about Deathwing who was driven mad by the Old Gods.
I would love to see Arthas a a menacing villain than being redeemed, unless in the end.

Deathwing's popularity is nowhere close to Arthas, you got to admit it.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:01 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Arthas is a prick. Ask how you may redeem an intestinal parasite.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:31 PM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
I would love to see Arthas a a menacing villain than being redeemed, unless in the end.

Deathwing's popularity is nowhere close to Arthas, you got to admit it.
You're right. Arthas is more popular. But Arthas shouldn't be redeemed that's for certain. I like him. But come on, what are you going to do, bring self-righteous Arthas back? If you make him more humble, it's not the same character. If it's the same character he's basically irredeemable because while I don't think he was an inherently bad person he sure wasn't the redeeming-himself person.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:42 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Instead of bringing the the old back, and rehashing it ad infinitum, it may be best for the developers to view their previous work as the foundations for a much larger setting. It's been said time and again that Blizzard always, always does better when they break away from the RTS backdrop and develop something new. Allow that to continue. Give the setting a chance to breathe, that it might produce a more abundant story.

Also, why does anyone have to be redeemed? Why can't villains be villains? Nuanced, by all means, but let a murderer be who he is. Let him fly, man.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:42 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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You're right. Arthas is more popular. But Arthas shouldn't be redeemed that's for certain. I like him. But come on, what are you going to do, bring self-righteous Arthas back? If you make him more humble, it's not the same character. If it's the same character he's basically irredeemable because while I don't think he was an inherently bad person he sure wasn't the redeeming-himself person.
As a villain or a dark ally you got to work with.
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