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Old 05-26-2020, 11:59 AM
Falarson Falarson is offline

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Default The Shadowlands, Argus and the Titans

Haven't posted here in a good while, but I needed to put this somewhere so here it goes.

I think Argus was imprisoned by the Titans and they put the Jailer and the Arbiter in the Shadowlands for a reason. There's something very loose I liked together, but haven't made much sense of just yet, but here it goes:

- Revendreth is ruled by a Dreadlord, who are known to serve the void.
- Sargeras' greatest enemies are the void lords, and he wanted Argus to come back for a reason. He clearly has similar powers than those we see in the Shadowlands. After all, demons were reborn using his power.
- Shadow and void have always been related. Sometimes shadow is more about death? That part of the lore is ambiguous. Regadless, we also know that the Dreadlods were some of the first necromancers, and also void users.
- "That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die." Void entities such as old gods are sort of immortal beigns which cannot be fully vanquished. Even Y'shaarj is out there somewhere. "Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside." We do not know how they attain such immortality, though.

Piecing these facts together, I think the Shadowlands used to work differently before, under Argus. Maybe as Eonar created the "Lifelands"/Emerald Dream, Argus created the Shadowlands to house all dead souls in the universe, perhaps in tandem with Sargeras' Burning Crusade. A temporary backup of all souls while his brother reaped life across the galaxies. Sargeras' master plan, with the aid of Argus, was to use undeath as a means to make an universe immune to void corruption. This is why the Scourge was sent to Azeroth by the Burning Legion on the first place.

At some point, Argus was vanquished and his essence imprisoned in a planetary cocoon by the Pantheon, as they didn't agree with this solution proposed by Sargeras.

The ordering of the Shadowlands happened, so this plan wouldn't come to fruition. The different realms were made, and Aman'thul appointed the Arbiter to carry on with "the Purpose": to ensure that all dead souls continue their journey in the Shadowlands, instead of becoming fuel for the Cosmic-level Scourge. However, the Shadowlands were still under constant threat of the void, so Maldraxxus had to provide necrotic warriors immune to void corruption. Eternal necrotics who would fight to preserve the order of Death. The shadowlands was the only place where such creatures would be allowed to exist, and only because they served The Purpose.

This is what I have so far. There's bits like the relationship between the Lich King and Yogg-Saron, how they want to access the Shadowlands to attain a death state which they seem to lack, and what role did the Jailor have prior to his confinement to the Maw which I haven't figured out yet, but hopefully this gets the ball rolling on the speculation. Just my two cents. Cheers!
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:43 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Falarson View Post
- Sargeras' greatest enemies are the void lords, and he wanted Argus to come back for a reason. He clearly has similar powers than those we see in the Shadowlands. After all, demons were reborn using his power.
Neat theory, but I'm confused by this bit, wasn't Argus always just the World Soul of his own planet that Sargeras was torturing/enslaving?

I don't think he was ever 'dead' or needing to come back from anywhere himself.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:18 AM
Falarson Falarson is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Neat theory, but I'm confused by this bit, wasn't Argus always just the World Soul of his own planet that Sargeras was torturing/enslaving?

I don't think he was ever 'dead' or needing to come back from anywhere himself.
About Argus: He was in a similar state than the titans themselves in the Antorus raid. A gaseous ball of stars. Chronicle talks about titans being born out of planets, but as per the last Blizzcon, we know that's not totally reliable. Also, in some datamined maps in an earlier Legion build there was a gigantic Argus model inside of Antorus, so he might have been imprisoned there. Again, just something I'm choosing to question from what we know so far.
My main reason to question this is Ogmot's dream journal, btw.

There's also 1k Years of War, which adds a second source to Chronicle and makes it more credible. If that's the case, then take Argus out of the equation. Still leaves the Titans disagreeing about a undeath-based response to the void and taking control of the Shadowlands somehow. All of that I still think could hold some water.

----
Some more thoughts:

The relationship between Yogg-Saron and the Lich King

The Old Gods need a way into the Shadowlands to be fully born again while simultaneously keeping the scourge at bay. Just got a feeling this is this the case because N'zoth has played us 100% and Shadowlands is the outcome of that. The Old Gods even sent the nerubians (vĂ­a Ner'zhul LK) to help Arthas so he sees them as allies. Ner'zhul never liked Kil'jaeden and there's no reason to think Arthas was aware of any rivalries between the OGs and the Legion, so it's perfectly possible that Ner'zhul LK was sent to Azeroth to weaken it with an army that was also designed to be OG-resistant, but his landing in Icecrown leaded to him listening to the whispers and serving Yogg-Saron in some capacity, whom in turn saw in the LK a chance to access the realm that will finally change the nature of the OGs.
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:28 AM
engal engal is offline

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Well, the shadowlands are older than the titans, and the Arbiter is said to be as old , or older than them.

I think we are going toward something else.

There are mentions of " Progenitors " and " First Ones "

The titans are definitely not the First Ones.

The first ones are literally the one that made the universe, and Elune is somewhere in this business.

They created the shadowlands, one of those " First Ones " went rogue ( like Chronos, or even Morgoth in LOTR) , and the other one turned against him, the jailer was one of his minions and a potent necromancer ( like sauron ) and ended up locked up into the shadowlands, since his role was left vacant, the other progenitors created the Arbiter that would make the machine of death work flawlessly by implenting in it a software that would help it make the correct choices between the alternatives offered to her. The shadowlands, and the Arbiter also use the anima to make the jailer restrained.
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Nothing, this is Scrolls of Lore, every conversation on here slowly distills down to Sylvanas, Lorderon or Worgen. I'm pretty sure that theres a mathematical truth to this.
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