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  #26  
Old 05-05-2014, 01:59 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
It was actually Hamuul because he felt the horde could help them and aid them in finding a cure and changing their cursed nature. This is part of the source of my earlier Anduin comparison.
So my theory is upheld: The Horde brought in races they thought they could help not the other way around.
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  #27  
Old 05-05-2014, 02:10 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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To ask this question, one must first define what a 'family' is. Family is fundamentally an institution derived out of necessity for survival, rather than any kind of sentimental nonsense. That's why the Horde banded together, supposedly: for survival.

However, it doesn't take much for family members to stab each other in the back. This happens all the time. In an institution based purely on existential survival, there will clearly be tensions between individuals who's desires conflict.

So, yes, the Horde seems to act very much like a family.

Last edited by Eagan; 05-05-2014 at 02:21 PM..
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  #28  
Old 05-05-2014, 02:13 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Even the Alliance is a better family than the Horde. They don't have malicious factions of evil undead in their ranks, and they whitewash even their grey-aligned allies. Moira marched to a different beat at first, but now she is the most pro-Alliance leader amongst the dwarves. The Gilnean people are also recognised as trustworthy allies amongst the Alliance, Genn even befriended Varian.
It's a bit funny that with each expansion the bond between the Alliance factions only grew stronger, while the Horde became more and more fragmented. But the devs consider the Horde as a family. I very well understand the family-like bond between the Darkspear, the orcs who follow Thrall's ideals and the tauren. But yeah, it's not WC3:RoC anymore, the year is 2014. The thing should be abondoned as outdated. The majority of goblins, blood elves and the Forsaken will never recognise the Horde as a family.
Overall, i think that the term 'family' isn't appropriate to describe the relationships within giant factions like the Alliance and Horde. Family is a family, while the multicultural alliance of different nations and factions is something different.
Geez, I wanted to create a thread like this too.
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2014, 05:42 PM
Bullroarer Bullroarer is offline

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Tauren, Troll and Orc. Ogres, and possibly Goblins (greela the grunt)

One voice shouting together, "For the Horde!"

The Vol'jin felt pain when he saw future Cairne dying. How Thrall shouted, "Cairne was my brother."

How Drek'Thar wept when talking with Cairne and Thrall.

Thrall refers to Vol'jin as brother. There in lies the key, "Brother."

I remember going to Mor'shan watching Tauren and Orc grunts shouting, "For the Horde!"

And in the Shattering how Baine refused to fight Garrosh, "For the sake of the Horde his father loved."

Pandaria disappointed me.

I strongly believe in the brotherhood of the Horde, to serve a single Warchief. Even a Goblin (Greela the Grunt) or that Centaur from the comics. Rexxar, Champion of the Horde, a Mok'Nathal.

The Alliance should be a mixed variety of nations that simply work together. The Horde, a singular entity.

"FOR THE HORDE!!!"
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2014, 09:32 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Vol'jin, Cairne, and Thrall are buddies, but not a lot of their subjects were.

Plus, was the PoV of Tauren fighting in ashenvale ever explained?
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  #31  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:00 PM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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The trolls, tauren and orcs? Sure, they have strong ties (barring Garrosh and his racial superiority complex). Not to mention that they share somewhat similar cultures and share some degree of shamanism, etc.

If i'm not mistaken, Thrall didn't want the blood elves in the Horde at all and for them and the forsaken it has been an alliance of convenience from the start; that hasn't changed at all. They're not really family, they stick out of the Horde like a sore thumb.

The entire "family" idea is an incredibly idealistic view of what the Horde should be which is held by a few individuals, if recent events are anything yo go by then it isn't really much of a family at all.
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  #32  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:27 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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The trolls, tauren and orcs? Sure, they have strong ties (barring Garrosh and his racial superiority complex). Not to mention that they share somewhat similar cultures and share some degree of shamanism, etc.

If i'm not mistaken, Thrall didn't want the blood elves in the Horde at all and for them and the forsaken it has been an alliance of convenience from the start; that hasn't changed at all. They're not really family, they stick out of the Horde like a sore thumb.

The entire "family" idea is an incredibly idealistic view of what the Horde should be which is held by a few individuals, if recent events are anything yo go by then it isn't really much of a family at all.
Ideals are great goals, it's a great platform for a leader to show his vision of how his organization could be. Besides, if anything, I'd say that recent events show that Vol'jin and Thrall's vision of what the Horde should be has prevailed over Garrosh's.

True, Thrall didn't want Blood Elves, that was Sylvannas's idea, and the way she brought them in was consistent with how Thrall brought Goblins, Tauren and Trolls in: she helped them first in order to win their Allegiance. The Tauren sort of did that with the Forsaken, bringing them in because they thought they could help them, although that has fallen by the wayside in an extreme manner.

The dynamic following the Siege: Vol'jin and his trolls champion the ideal of a Horde Family, the Tauren are on board with it, the Goblins are being, well, Goblins, the The Forsaken probably couldn't care less so long as they have Horde support in the Eastern Kingdoms and the Blood Elves are caught between the Forsaken and the rest of the Horde. I couldn't tell you how the Huojin feel. I imagine they would agree with the whole family idea, but they might have a really sour taste in their mouths from Garrosh.
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  #33  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:32 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
The dynamic following the Siege: Vol'jin and his trolls champion the ideal of a Horde Family, the Tauren are on board with it, the Goblins are being, well, Goblins, the The Forsaken probably couldn't care less so long as they have Horde support in the Eastern Kingdoms and the Blood Elves are caught between the Forsaken and the rest of the Horde. I couldn't tell you how the Huojin feel. I imagine they would agree with the whole family idea, but they might have a really sour taste in their mouths from Garrosh.

* Darkspear Trolls should be mostly dead from the rebellion.
* Orcs are outcasts, not even welcome in their own city.
* Baine is spineless as ever.
* Neither the Huojin, or Tuoshin(forgot their name) have much of a role now, they left.
* Goblins are stuck with the abusive slavemaster Galywix, so they aren't well off either.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #34  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:43 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
* Darkspear Trolls should be mostly dead from the rebellion.
* Orcs are outcasts, not even welcome in their own city.
* Baine is spineless as ever.
* Neither the Huojin, or Tuoshin(forgot their name) have much of a role now, they left.
* Goblins are stuck with the abusive slavemaster Galywix, so they aren't well off either.
* You know Blizzard Math will prevail as far as Darkspear numbers are concerned.
* I didn't mention orcs, largely because it will probably be WoD where they establish who they are in the Horde.
* Regardless of Baine's spine, his people are as integrated into the Horde family as ever, if not moreso.
* No arguements with the Huojin, but Vol'jin does have decent ties to the Pandaren after SotH, which he won in the same way Thrall won his allies. Sad we'll never really see what happens with them.
* Regardless of their leadership, Goblin's place at the Horde table is assured.

You're focusing on leadership, rather than on whether or not the people themselves have a place in the family. This isn't about whether the Horde has good leadership, or whether or not any of the races are in a great place right now (they aren't). It's about whether or not they have the ties necessary for the Horde to rise up again. They're not quite there yet (and won't be until the Orcs get themselves squared away and the Forsaken are dealt with), but there are still some good unburned bridges, ones that Garrosh ended up strengthening by giving them a common foe.
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  #35  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:49 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
* You know Blizzard Math will prevail as far as Darkspear numbers are concerned.
* I didn't mention orcs, largely because it will probably be WoD where they establish who they are in the Horde.
* Regardless of Baine's spine, his people are as integrated into the Horde family as ever, if not moreso.
* No arguements with the Huojin, but Vol'jin does have decent ties to the Pandaren after SotH, which he won in the same way Thrall won his allies. Sad we'll never really see what happens with them.
* Regardless of their leadership, Goblin's place at the Horde table is assured.
* Regardless the close relationship, orcs, and Jungle trolls once shared is all but entirely gone now. The Darkspear used to view the orcs like brothers, but MOP made them more divided then ever, along with the sea Witch, kul'tiras, being killed by Orcs is now one of the leading causes for the Darkspear Tribe.
* Same deal as the Darkspear above, the tauren kinship with the orcs has been shattered almost entirely. Baine can't even rule his own people, so he does affect things.
* Being with an incompetent slaver who doesn't care if they live or die does affect their place at the Horde table.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #36  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:55 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
* Regardless the close relationship, orcs, and Jungle trolls once shared is all but entirely gone now. The Darkspear used to view the orcs like brothers, but MOP made them more divided then ever, along with the sea Witch, kul'tiras, being killed by Orcs is now one of the leading causes for the Darkspear Tribe.
* Same deal as the Darkspear above, the tauren kinship with the orcs has been shattered almost entirely. Baine can't even rule his own people, so he does affect things.
* Being with an incompetent slaver who doesn't care if they live or die does affect their place at the Horde table.
Yes, but it's been established that the Horde is more than Orcs.

Besides, like I said, they have WoD to figure out who they are and how they relate to everyone else.

I really don't see Gallywix's status being an issue. It hasn't held the Goblins back at all since they joined the Horde.
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  #37  
Old 05-06-2014, 02:35 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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Never been a family? Really? Have we been playing the same game? If you are strictly talking about Cata and MoP then it'd make sense. The Horde has been family form TFT up until WotLK, and maybe even early Cata.
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