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Old 11-28-2017, 05:25 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
Which brings me to another point, regarding gay marriage; why on Earth would a gay couple want to marry themselves in the name of a God and religion who think their entire lifestyle is sinful?
For the record - much to the great surprise of my European friends - many of the strongest advocates for gay marriage in America came from the churches. In San Francisco, before even the Stonewall riots that are often cited as a public starting point in the LGBT civil rights movement, clergy were at the vanguard of advocating for LGBT rights. There are a number of churches in the US that affirm the sanctity of marriage between LGBTQ couples and permit openly LGBTQ clergy: e.g., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Metropolitan Church, etc. (US Methodists mostly do too, but there is a large internal fight, and possibly an upcoming split, between them and the international Methodists over the issue.)
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  #11502  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:49 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
For the record - much to the great surprise of my European friends - many of the strongest advocates for gay marriage in America came from the churches. In San Francisco, before even the Stonewall riots that are often cited as a public starting point in the LGBT civil rights movement, clergy were at the vanguard of advocating for LGBT rights. There are a number of churches in the US that affirm the sanctity of marriage between LGBTQ couples and permit openly LGBTQ clergy: e.g., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Metropolitan Church, etc. (US Methodists mostly do too, but there is a large internal fight, and possibly an upcoming split, between them and the international Methodists over the issue.)
I was wondering when Christian revisionist history would catch up to this.
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  #11503  
Old 11-28-2017, 06:07 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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I was wondering when Christian revisionist history would catch up to this.
Just because you are ignorant of American Christianity outside of your narrow, judmental preconceptions does not mean that there is historical revisionism at play, Kakwakas.
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  #11504  
Old 11-28-2017, 06:46 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Just because you are ignorant of American Christianity outside of your narrow, judmental preconceptions does not mean that there is historical revisionism at play, Kakwakas.
The vast majority of American churches were extremely opposed to gay marriage. Prior to 2010 or so, if a church had a pro-equality message or rainbow flag, it was considered news because it was so rare.
If pro-gay churches were as common as you claim, they sure were quiet as fuck about it while the rest of us were fighting for equality.
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:12 AM
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The vast majority of American churches were extremely opposed to gay marriage. Prior to 2010 or so, if a church had a pro-equality message or rainbow flag, it was considered news because it was so rare.
Not rare, just drowned out by the extremely vocal anti-gay Christians that received a lot of media attention. I suspect that many churches and clergy did march in pride parades and had pro-gay messages and rainbow flags prior to 2010. But when you it runs counter to your cognitive bias and narrative of an anti-gay Christianity, then I suppose that it's easy for you to coveniently ignore.

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If pro-gay churches were as common as you claim, they sure were quiet as fuck about it while the rest of us were fighting for equality.
Because you weren't paying attention. Enjoy. But there have been many clergy and churches fighting in the trenches for gay rights alongside other groups. If you weren't aware of them, then that's your own damn problem, but not mine.

These are the Christian denominations that both affirm LGBT unions and ordain them in their clergy:
* The Disciples of Christ
* The Episcopal Church of America (aka US Anglicans)
* Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
* Metropolitan Community Church
* Presbyterian Church (USA)
* Religious Society of Friends/Quakers (does vary)
* United Church of Christ

A lot of these are the major mainline Protestant denominations. As I said before though, it's complicated with the American Methodists. They tend to be de facto pro-gay rights but going de jure in favor of gay rights then risks crossing the line and alienating the international Methodist community (particularly African and Asian Methodists). The US Episcopal has similar issues with the Anglican Communion.
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  #11506  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:39 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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No, it's simple revisionist history bullshit that Christians love to pull. Finding the rare outlier that supported it doesn't mean much. Even most of the churches that "supported" gay marriage in the early to mid 00s took the position that gays should be allowed to be together, but it should be limited to being a "civil union" and keeping "marriage" for heterosexual couples.
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  #11507  
Old 11-28-2017, 09:02 AM
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No, it's simple revisionist history bullshit that Christians love to pull. Finding the rare outlier that supported it doesn't mean much. Even most of the churches that "supported" gay marriage in the early to mid 00s took the position that gays should be allowed to be together, but it should be limited to being a "civil union" and keeping "marriage" for heterosexual couples.
No, you're flat out wrong, with your revisionist history claim being debunked, and you got called out on it with factual evidence. Simple as that. Enjoy the rest of your day, sir.
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  #11508  
Old 11-28-2017, 02:23 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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I think it's cute how the left is offended by this, but not so much about how Elizabeth Warren faked being Native American to take benefits meant for Native Americans and advance her own career...
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  #11509  
Old 11-28-2017, 03:16 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Elizabeth Warren faked being Native American to take benefits meant for Native Americans and advance her own career...
[citation needed]

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
No, you're flat out wrong, with your revisionist history claim being debunked, and you got called out on it with factual evidence. Simple as that. Enjoy the rest of your day, sir.
I could find some Republicans who supported gay marriage years ago (eg Dick Cheney after his daughter came out). It doesn't change anything, though.
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:19 PM
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Yvette Felarca is getting sued by somebody over a frivolous restraining order. Now a violent anarchist has to explain how she supports legal protection.

Then there is the far Left eating their own at Wilfrid Laurier University when they attacked Lindsay Shepherd for mentioning that opposition to their views exists.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

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Last edited by Revenant; 11-28-2017 at 05:24 PM..
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  #11511  
Old 11-29-2017, 04:49 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The president retweeted some bullshit from a far-right British political group. One of the videos claiming to be a Muslim beating a kid with crutches was confirmed to be fake (as in the attacker wasn't Muslim or anything). The white house's response? "It doesn't matter if the evidence of the threat is real, because the threat is real!"
http://www.businessinsider.com/sarah...videos-2017-11
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  #11512  
Old 11-29-2017, 08:44 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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[citation needed]
Thats why he calls her that..

And was also a scandal a few years back, and not just an off handed thing about warren.

Shes zero proof, she isnt a member of the nation, her names not in any books, and even if she WAS Native American, the blood would be so diluted she wouldnt be eligible for any of the nations to include her.

One of her defenders literally used the "Well, Oral tradition, so even if shes wrong its not her fault!" excuse.

While I dont think she was listed for studeet bennies, it was certainly used to advance her career, in both political and personal, with schools holding her up as diverse
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  #11513  
Old 11-29-2017, 09:00 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Thats why he calls her that..

And was also a scandal a few years back, and not just an off handed thing about warren.

Shes zero proof, she isnt a member of the nation, her names not in any books, and even if she WAS Native American, the blood would be so diluted she wouldnt be eligible for any of the nations to include her.

One of her defenders literally used the "Well, Oral tradition, so even if shes wrong its not her fault!" excuse.

While I dont think she was listed for studeet bennies, it was certainly used to advance her career, in both political and personal, with schools holding her up as diverse
Sounds like my family. I think my grandfather's grandmother was Cherokee or something. Supposedly he could get the card, but nobody in the family really wants to bother with it. It might not even be true, who knows? Should I doubt my other supposed ancestry as well?
Has she actually tried to use it to advance her career?
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  #11514  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:36 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Sounds like my family. I think my grandfather's grandmother was Cherokee or something. Supposedly he could get the card, but nobody in the family really wants to bother with it. It might not even be true, who knows? Should I doubt my other supposed ancestry as well?
Has she actually tried to use it to advance her career?
Nowadays, any diversity claim people believe can advance your political career.

But of course, clumsy Trump is at the helm. That means he says stupid things (e.g. calling her Pocahontas) that makes people focus on how oafish he is instead of Elizabeth Warren. It's like his enemies aren't allowed to have even minor scandals because, by jove, that takes too much attention away from himself.
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  #11515  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:30 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Sounds like my family. I think my grandfather's grandmother was Cherokee or something. Supposedly he could get the card, but nobody in the family really wants to bother with it. It might not even be true, who knows? Should I doubt my other supposed ancestry as well?
Has she actually tried to use it to advance her career?
In the past (when your Grandparents were young) saying you were Native American was pretty much like saying you were half black. You'd be ostracized for having that Native American blood and would be prejudiced against. Now days it's the opposite and comes with other benefits so you see people left and right wanting to say they're Native American because they have an incredible small amount of native blood. Though in the vast majority of cases those people are so diluted that no Native American tribe would accept them.
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  #11516  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:57 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
In the past (when your Grandparents were young) saying you were Native American was pretty much like saying you were half black. You'd be ostracized for having that Native American blood and would be prejudiced against. Now days it's the opposite and comes with other benefits so you see people left and right wanting to say they're Native American because they have an incredible small amount of native blood. Though in the vast majority of cases those people are so diluted that no Native American tribe would accept them.
My grandfather basically grew up in a boarding school type of thing and enlisted straight out of it, though, so I'm not sure how much that really affected him. He actually does look kind of native, too.
It's pretty typical for white Americans whose families have been in the country for a long time to have stories about native ancestors. At least it seems that way whenever I mention my ancestry since just about everybody else pipes up saying they're also like 1/32 native. I've never seen anybody try to use it to their advantage, though.
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  #11517  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Sounds like my family. I think my grandfather's grandmother was Cherokee or something. Supposedly he could get the card, but nobody in the family really wants to bother with it. It might not even be true, who knows? Should I doubt my other supposed ancestry as well?
Has she actually tried to use it to advance her career?
Yep.

https://thinkprogress.org/elizabeth-...-c1ec6c91b696/
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  #11518  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:44 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Looks like a "maybe" at most.
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  #11519  
Old 12-02-2017, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
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  #11520  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:12 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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So a bunch of women are complaining about being silenced by facebook because they got bans for saying "Men are scum", "kill all men", etc. Hate speech, its being called.

Its a violation of their freedom of expression, and silencing womens voices, they say.

If only someone had tried to warn them.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:29 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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"President Trump's press secretary said her boss would have no problem with businesses hanging antigay signs that explicitly state they don't serve LGBT customers."
https://www.advocate.com/politics/20...-antigay-signs
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  #11522  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:39 AM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Let them be bigoted if they want to. I can always take my business elsewhere. Unfortunately, it also reeks of the days where business wouldn't allow people of color or Irish.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:56 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Let them be bigoted if they want to. I can always take my business elsewhere. Unfortunately, it also reeks of the days where business wouldn't allow people of color or Irish.
The issues being conflated, is the problem. The baker didnt tell them they couldnt buy from him, to my knowledge.

The Baker didnt deny the couple service. He said he wouldnt make them a wedding cake.
He's an artist. Decorating cake is an art, and art is generally expression. If its against his belief, and he doesnt want to, Its his loss.

Its a silly controversy, and the fact that its reared its head in the year of businnesses and theaters refusing to serve men during Wonder Woman is hilarious.

Its even more funny, because a few years ago, a few muslim dtivers were awarded 250k for being fired because they refused to deliver beer, claiming it was against their religion.

That wasnt even an issue over expression.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:05 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Its even more funny, because a few years ago, a few muslim dtivers were awarded 250k for being fired because they refused to deliver beer, claiming it was against their religion.
Different argument. Muslims aren't even allowed to touch alcohol from what I've heard. I don't think there's anything in the bible about not selling a cake if they believe it's to be used for a certain purpose.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:09 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Different argument. Muslims aren't even allowed to touch alcohol from what I've heard. I don't think there's anything in the bible about to whom they can sell cakes.
Ok? They didnt have to touch it. They had to deliver it. Also, its the consumption of alchohol. Not touching it, AFAIK

But there is scripture about marriage being man and women, and thus participating in the act by providing shit for it is, well..

Obviously a religious reason.

Because he never refused to sell them cake.

He refused to decorate and sell them a cake specifically for wedding between two men
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Last edited by Ruinshin; 12-07-2017 at 01:13 PM..
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