Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

View Poll Results: What do you think of the Revamp?
I want it! And I think it'll happen! 3 21.43%
I want it, but I don't think it will happen... 9 64.29%
I don't like it, but I think it'll happen. 0 0%
I don't like it, and I'm pretty sure it won't happen! 2 14.29%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-18-2019, 04:40 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,212

Default A world revamp? - Speculation and discussion, plus poll

As speculation and fake leaks begin to grow in frequency as Blizzcon nears (only five months!), a common theme keeps reappearing: is a new world revamp coming?

I've been speculating about a world revamp for some time. Several people were already putting their bets on it after Legion. The events of that expansion affected many old zones, and, surely, the end of our oldest foe could only mean a new beginning for the franchise.

We got BfA instead. The biggest faction war, they said, and it started with two capital cities destroyed. Not only that, but there's two old zones revamped for warfronts, with more seemly on the horizon, and some other tidbits like Uther's Tomb revamped. Also, we finally face Azshara, and maybe, just maybe, N'Zoth himself could be our final boss.

What's left after that? How will the franchise endure? What new lands are there to be found?

Signs?

There's some signs that may or may not point to next expansion being a big undertaking related to the old world. BfA's patch cycle has a slower pace than Legions while not delivering as much "new" (specially in art) content per patch, maybe signifying the team is putting way more work on other endeavors.

The warfronts, as well as Uther's Tomb renewal and Lordaeron's new walls, could also be forefront work, or proof-of-concept, of how the world may look at a renewal. Also, revamping the areas for Warfronts could also reduce work on doing a world revamp.

The last few expansions have been adding a lot of art assets that would reduce budget in a world revamp. We got human, orc, draenei and night elf buildings, as well as some doodads for other races (like trolls). Many mobs from Kalimdor/EK either got revamped models (kobolds, troggs, wendigo, kodos, eagles, bears, frogs, prairie dogs, rabbits, cats) or new models for new versions that could be used instead (wolves, tigers, harpies, ogres).

As a plus, in an interview (sorry, I can't remember which), when asked about moving the franchise away from Azeroth, Ion suspiciously mentioned a "WoW 2" and that the franchise wouldn't be the same away from Azeroth. Why mention "WoW 2"? Hmmm...


But Cataclysm already did that, and that's a bad expansion

Yes, but we need to understand why it was a generally bad expansion, and how the same pitfalls could be avoided.

First and foremost, Cataclysm's revamp cost a lot of dev resources, ending up affecting negatively the endgame. When Cataclysm came out, most people welcomed the new leveling experience. However, it ended up that most of the game was available in the prepatch. Once the expansion was actually released, there was very little "new" to do.

Second, Cataclysm made the old versions of the continents unavailable.

Third, broke the timeline, as the earlier zones were chronologically more advanced than previous expansions you had to venture into in higher levels.

Fourth, Cataclysm's leveling storylines were firmly set in a particular timeframe that quickly got old. It was less about exploring Azeroth again and more reacting to faction war, the destruction brought by Deathwing and the Twilight's Hammer's schemes. And most zones were left on rails. Last but not least, it's been 9 years. We leveled a bazillion alts since then, so we are really tired of Cata revamp.

So, how could a new revamp avoid these pitfalls.

A new game for a new generation and for the coming decade

I think the revamp is coming, but it won't be like Cataclysm at all.

This is WoW 2, but as an expansion instead of a new game. Same engine, reuse of assets, but lots of new things. Our old enemies have been vanquished, a few years of peace follow and, after a small timeskip (10 years?), Azeroth needs us once again. It will feel like a renewed game, a soft-rebooted franchise where we again explore Azeroth and find out what evils have been growing in the wild places of the world.

First, I bet the new Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms won't be just the old maps revamped, but new files entirely. The old versions will keep existing and be accessible throught bronze dragons. Blizzard will have the freedom to rework zones entirely, even reshaping, removing, merging or dividing them. THis allows the company to go entirely wild with ideas, and will mean we will have to actually rediscover these lands (and towns and flight paths).

Second, the leveling experience will be completely redone. The level squish is part of it, and will help the theme of a new beginning. You can choose to level up a new character entirely on the new world. Yes, you can teleport back in time to experience old expansions, but it will be an entirely optional endeavor. Systems developed over the years, like Bonus Objectives, could be used to speed leveling, leaving quests only for storylines that you can do in any order you wish.

The level squish also helps you feel like your character if you choose to keep the ones you adventured with all these years. After a few years away from action, Azeroth needs heroes again, and there you are, an old veteran, after years of peace, having to deal with danger again.

In the "new" continents, the low level zones will be up in the prepatch, like in Cataclysm, but this time they are only a small part of the content. 2/3 or more of the renewed continents will be for BfA's (squished) max level onwards. Imagine that anything beyond the race-owned lands is reserved for high level content and off-limits during the prepatch.

Third, revamping the world does not mean it won't feel new. New lands could open. Old lands could change completely. Quel'thalas and Myst Isles could finally be integrated into their main continents (while keeping the TBC originals untouched!). The leveling flow could go into totally new ways. Imagine the possibillities! I present some ideas bellow.


Kalimdor: the Wild Continent

Night elves settled in Moonglade, turning Nighthaven into a great city where their people is reckovering. The Cenarion Circle has moved to Hyjal, which is now neutral territory.

Beyond the night elf-controlled Darkshore, the continent is either Horde or savage. Creatures from Draenor, misplaced during the mag'har extraction, have spread all over the continent. Ashenvale is in a three-way lock between Horde and Night elves. The barrens are terrorized by saberon and gronn.

The Myst Isles have been assaulted by the mag'har, displacing the draenei and collapsing the Exodar. It's now a place for the mag'har clans, with the draenei, too weakened after the Legion's end, fleeing into other parts of the continent or Eastern Kingdoms, where they have formed their own towns and cities akin to the ones they lost in Draenor.

In Azshara, Bilgewater Harbor has turned into a major goblin city. Orgrimmar is renewed.

Without Onyxia or Theramore to threaten them, the Stonemaul ogres have thrived in Dustwallow Marsh, rebuilding a glorious city of stony spires in the mountains near the coast.

The lands to the south are the most dangerous ones. Feralas is botani territory, with both ogres and night elves fighting for it. From Uldum, a new threat rises, as the Ama'thet Tol'vir rise in power and moves north.


Eastern Kingdoms: Truly a place for civilization

In contrast to Kalimdor, cities and towns thrive in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Quel'thalas is reckovering from the almost-corruption of the Sunwell. Eversong forest has reckovered, but the Ghostlands still bear taint from the old days.

The Plaguelands have been healed, becoming again the Eastweald. But dark creatures still lurk in the caves and forests.

Lordaeron is in the Alliance's hands, but the Forsaken dwell in the frigid mountains of Alterac, atop their black necropolis.

Dalaran has landed in its old crater, while the Revantusk tribe conquered Jintha'alor.

Stromgarde has been reborn. Gilneas is retaken.

Way more urban adventures await, and the many kingdoms mean conflict is brewing way more often than it should, as governments threaten each other through politics or war. And the wild places still need to be conquered, as dangers rise from the ruins of the Twilight Bastion or rediscovered titan constructs emerge from the long-forgotten halls of Uldaman.

In the far south, Outland's denizens are pouring throught the Dark Portal, as that ruined world is no longer able to sustain their increasing populations post-Legion defeat. The cursed Arakkoa are exploring the Swamp of Sorrows and the abandoned lands of Duskwood, as they have found the perfect place to nest: Deadwind Pass.

The broken have mostly fled to draenei settlements, but some, corrupted by despair and the void, start exploring Azeroth in hopes of conquering it.


And New Lands

Even never-before-seen lands could be added, probably in patches. Dragon Isles, the Maisara Hills of the Amani, Plunder Island, Tel'abim.

Imagination is the limit, as we explore a world we thought we knew. These lands are familiar, but they are not the same. Nor they are safe.


So, what do you think?
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).

Last edited by Deicide; 06-18-2019 at 08:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:07 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

Eternal
Menel'dirion's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The most gorgeous place in the world (if you've been there you know what I'm talking about)
Posts: 2,557

Default

I like it a lot. I don't think it will happen, but I do like it a lot.

Blizzard seems like the type to learn the wrong lessons.

At any rate, what's your plan for the broken timeline? I didn't see anything about how to resolve that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:35 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,212

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
I like it a lot. I don't think it will happen, but I do like it a lot.

Blizzard seems like the type to learn the wrong lessons.

At any rate, what's your plan for the broken timeline? I didn't see anything about how to resolve that.
"You can choose to level up a new character entirely on the new world."

In essence, you create a new character, and you start in the new version of the world. And you can level 1 to max entirely there.

Every past expansion becomes optional. Like, instead of leveling in the new world, you can access them at level X by "going back in time". They scale from X up to BfA's (squished) max level. You can experience each expansion in full, but that's only if you do not want to do so in the new Kalimdor/EK.

It's essentially WoW 2, but without losing all legacy content.

Considering this year is WoW's 15th anniversary and Warcraft's 25th, I can totally see as a big possibility them announcing an expansion aimed at renewing the franchise in both gameplay and lore for the next decade or so.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).

Last edited by Deicide; 06-18-2019 at 08:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:56 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

Eternal
Ujimasa Hojo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philippines
Posts: 4,204

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
At any rate, what's your plan for the broken timeline? I didn't see anything about how to resolve that.
WoW Classic could be simply be some sort of stepping stone where old content is brought back. Eventually, all will be merged, including BC zones, seemlessly with advanced phasing.
__________________




Watch my Warcraft 3 stuff in either YouTube, BitChute, DailyMotion, DTube, or FruitLab.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:18 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is online now

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,424
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800

Default

I like it. I think it's too much to hope for, but I like it. Look forward to people's speculations on this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:53 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,474

Default

Need a goddang reboot.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:49 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

Eternal
Ujimasa Hojo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Philippines
Posts: 4,204

Default

By the way, any changes to Classic quests to conform with Cataclysm lore? For example, quests where you Kill X in the former but X turns out alive in the latter.
__________________




Watch my Warcraft 3 stuff in either YouTube, BitChute, DailyMotion, DTube, or FruitLab.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-24-2019, 01:59 AM
rshll rshll is offline

Treant
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 21

Default

Two things that I really want are

Ashenvale and Barrens to switch places - woods are being cut down by orcs turning Ashenvale into desert steppes while Barrens and Desolace continue to blossom (what's already been happening), turning it into Zandalari-like jungles.

Lordaeron is rebuilt. Capital city, Stratholme (how long does it take for the city to burn down completely?), Quel'Thalas, Dalaran, Alterac. No big changes, maybe something like what they did to Arathi.

Otherwise, the whole world is kinda okay.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:49 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

Arch-Druid
Vineyard's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,159

Default

Hm... it's possible, but imo. the basis probatly will be the old maps, to save at least some dev time. But I agree that they could in theory do things more radically this time.

I mean, we saw what they have done with Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch.

Plus, they have a bigger team than in Cata and developing tech also got better.

But I don't think they will do a time jump. (Technically, years already have passed in the old zones anyway and we already have some confirmed have changes lorewise. Tanaris and Gadgetzan anyone? )
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:29 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,474

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rshll View Post
Two things that I really want are

Ashenvale and Barrens to switch places - woods are being cut down by orcs turning Ashenvale into desert steppes while Barrens and Desolace continue to blossom (what's already been happening), turning it into Zandalari-like jungles.

Lordaeron is rebuilt. Capital city, Stratholme (how long does it take for the city to burn down completely?), Quel'Thalas, Dalaran, Alterac. No big changes, maybe something like what they did to Arathi.

Otherwise, the whole world is kinda okay.
Blizz's mistake was investing so much of the nelf story in ashenvale, if they burn it down then it's essentially a huge middle finger to the playerbase, on top of the mess that Teldrassil is
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:36 AM
rshll rshll is offline

Treant
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Blizz's mistake was investing so much of the nelf story in ashenvale, if they burn it down then it's essentially a huge middle finger to the playerbase, on top of the mess that Teldrassil is
That would be a perfect chance to reintroduce this race when it's been neglected for too long.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:04 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,474

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rshll View Post
That would be a perfect chance to reintroduce this race when it's been neglected for too long.
Nelfs haven't been neglected they have tons of screentime just none of it good
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-25-2019, 04:56 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,548
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

I already suggested it baaack in the day, but Cataclysm should have "duplicated" vanilla instead of replacing it.

So you would have what we call today "WoW classic" in one hand, untouched, and the "next step in the timeline", in this case Cataclysm.

Major advantages of this approach:
  • You preserve the original content, and don't lose any amount of content.
  • You don't need to worry about breaking anything you want to preserve, like spawn locations no longer working after editing the terrain and such.
  • You can go wild and destroy everything, and don't worry about the consequences.

Cataclysm done on a duplicate would have allowed Blizzard to destroy entire zones and replace them with new storylines. They could have restructured the whole leveling process.

If you're really ambitious, you can move the story forward a few decades, and redefine the whole faction system. The Alliance and the Horde of today might not exist in the future, and players might find themselves on different factions when playing in "future Azeroth", or maybe with no factions whatsoever.

What's the point of the faction war if no one is going to win? What's the point of fighting villains if we're always going to win? We know everything will be stale, because that's how they approach their story and content.

Imagine things like:

---

The Burning Legion wins

Azeroth is fully invaded by the Burning Legion, and the few survivors hide in various underground refugees, fighting a guerrilla war against the invaders. The original capital cities and starting zones are now in ruins.

We eventually defeat the demons, and the sequel would deal with us rebuilding our lost kingdoms, ala pioneer expansion, with new factions struggling for power.

---

The Alliance wins

The Alliance wins the faction war, and fast-forward to the future, the new nations of Azeroth are as follows:
  • New Kaldorei Empire: Formed by night elves and tauren, ruled by Tyrande as an immortal tyrant. Military dictatorship ran by the Sentinels and the druids.
  • Grand Alliance of the Eastern Kingdoms: Formed by the human kingdoms, including a restored Lordaeron where undeath has become part of their culture, plus the draenei, dwarves, and high elves, who have retaken Quel'Thalas. The Church of the Holy Light has become too powerful, and controls the masses through brainwashing. Lot of internal conflicts, but the coalition always proves to be too big to fall.
  • Zandalari Empire: Formed by trolls and goblins. Ran by money and trading families, with a council of investors as the ruling class.
  • Free Cities: Coalition of pretty much everyone outside the three major factions. Pandaria is one of the major players, together with New Theramore, rebuilt as a refuge for the blood elves. Lot of freedom, but lot of crime as well. Haven for criminals and refugees fleeing from the big three. Post-war treaties dismantled the Horde and forced the orcs back into a tribal system, but some of them escape their seclusion and get employed as mercenaries or bodyguards.

With this setup as the starting points, we can pretty much go anywhere. Our characters could join their parent factions, become mercenaries, etc.

---

Cultist takeover

Some cult (Cult of the Damned, Twilight's Hammer Cult, etc) reveals itself as a big power. Suddenly a global civil war erupts. Players have to choose between the inquisition (supported by most factions), the cult, or neutrality, and carry their orders.

The ensuing conflict would play out as a global civil war, with players themselves being able to betray each other for money or power.

---

So yeah, I agree, Cataclysm should have been a duplicate instead of a replacement, and I would love to see something like this happen in the future.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:40 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,008

Default

At this point... yeah.

I think the technology exists at this point to allow the old world redo to also be usable by max level characters.

So explore the new old world alongside your friends because it can be done at any level.

That could be a way to do it to save on dev time while avoiding the trap of making a bunch of content that max level players are never going to see.
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-28-2019, 01:59 PM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

Chimaera
Icefrost's Avatar
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 273

Default

Is it just me or was the Cata world revamp mostly hated because so much was destroyed with very little built. And what little was built as new stuff (Lor'Danel, the new Feathermoon Stronghold, etc.) was already there from launch, they didnt take advantage of the opportunity let us participate in that. Also both examples stated were basically just there to be mechanical replacements for something else blown up next door.

Overall I feel like worldbuilding has suffered tremendously from all kinds of time-capsules being substituted in at the expense of that feeling of coherency and permanence that anyone who's been playing Classic recently can attest to from not-so-distant memory.

With even more being destroyed from the latest expansion, I think it's high time the developers got around to fixing things in more ways than one.

All with myself of course rooting for a restoration of the night elf homeland (minus Teldrassil I guess), because permanently taking away the possibility of that by portraying them as settling for something else, what with the darkshore stuff being something of a blizzcon highlight for any remaining Kaldorei fans, would really be the final straw for even the people who cared for longer than I ever did.

And like the majority feel seems to be, I don't believe in a revamp happening. I fear that Classic will become more and more of an excuse to destroy even more for cheap drama's sake. I still haven't forgotten Chromie's "They say you can never go home again" pitch starting after the reveal of a burning Teldrassil, complete with corpses on the shore implying what we now know as the war of the thorns. And I doubt I ever will.
__________________

Last edited by Icefrost; 09-28-2019 at 04:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-28-2019, 06:18 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,474

Default

Yes I think you're right, people didn't like settlements burning and bring constantly under attack

Westfall, Maestras post, the horde goblin town in Teilight hughlands, etc...
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:06 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,209

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icefrost View Post
Is it just me or was the Cata world revamp mostly hated because so much was destroyed with very little built. And what little was built as new stuff (Lor'Danel, the new Feathermoon Stronghold, etc.) was already there from launch, they didnt take advantage of the opportunity let us participate in that. Also both examples stated were basically just there to be mechanical replacements for something else blown up next door.

Overall I feel like worldbuilding has suffered tremendously from all kinds of time-capsules being substituted in at the expense of that feeling of coherency and permanence that anyone who's been playing Classic recently can attest to from not-so-distant memory.

With even more being destroyed from the latest expansion, I think it's high time the developers got around to fixing things in more ways than one.

All with myself of course rooting for a restoration of the night elf homeland (minus Teldrassil I guess), because permanently taking away the possibility of that by portraying them as settling for something else, what with the darkshore stuff being something of a blizzcon highlight for any remaining Kaldorei fans, would really be the final straw for even the people who cared for longer than I ever did.

And like the majority feel seems to be, I don't believe in a revamp happening. I fear that Classic will become more and more of an excuse to destroy even more for cheap drama's sake. I still haven't forgotten Chromie's "They say you can never go home again" pitch starting after the reveal of a burning Teldrassil, complete with corpses on the shore implying what we now know as the war of the thorns. And I doubt I ever will.
I for one am greatly annoyed by constant catastrophism of Warcraft. For what decades now in game time there has been one world ending disaster after another, often more than one at a time.

How are these countries even standing let alone growing?

An timeskip and ideally an expansion too devoted to rebuilding and progress would be great. Not every threat has to be dire, there will always be "wild" populations to keep track of, gnolls and quillboar that need to be pacified. Just maintaining a well ordered realm is hard with revolts and uprisings.

Sadly this is highly unlikely, the usual chuckleheads would be all like "what is this lame shit I thought this was World of WARcraft bla bla bla"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-28-2019, 11:52 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,551

Default

Was a bit bored and got to typing...and having trouble stopping, because that still happens from time-to-time, so...lengthy, unlikely theorycrafting/gamecrafting/whatevering to follow:

I feel like WarCraft needs a Big Bad who's not out for global devastation, and selective world changes to reflect that. Like a burgeoning new nation on some lost continent roused to begin expanding its reach, landing on Horde and Alliance shores with intent to conquer both. Not because it wants to demolish Azeroth or destroy the universe or corrupt the world-soul, but because the Alliance and Horde have lots of resources, lots of territory and lots of prospective labor force to subjugate, and this new agency wants to take that stuff for itself.

I.e. an enemy invading with a vested interest in not causing mass devastation, depopulating cities and just all-around ruining the places it's trying to conquer.

Make the Alliance and Horde fight back against an invading, expansionist coalition of mortal races that does the same sorts of things they've historically done/still do for the same sort of tangible, earthly and temporal reasons.

Like, oh, I dunno...maybe have the far side of Azeroth contain a hidden landmass where a faulty experimental titan forge was quarantined, along with a titan-forged race kept in stasis for being defective and stockpiles of experimental weaponry designed for their use. Then the Sundering turns out to have woken them up, which was followed by millennia of ongoing warfare between their armies of metal-and-stone warriors seeking to conquer and control the continent against the resistance of numerous native-born organic races. Then the planetwide invasion during Legion turns out to have dropped numerous demonic armies on their collective heads, costing them tons of lives as they desperately struggled to fight back, until finally the strongest of the continent's fleshy denizens were compelled to join forces with the titan-forged race in order to drive the demons out.

After which they formally unite their nations into one empire and jointly decide "hey, that demonic invasion was really awful and wrecked a bunch of our homeland. Let's invade the rest of the continents to secure new territory, replace our lost laborers with conquered subjects and take Azeroth's defense into our own hands so we can make sure something like that never happens again." And so, during the time since Legion they've been building up their new grand army, until finally they begin their campaign.

It's the sort of thing that would make sense during a time when the Alliance and Horde are on the back foot, still rebuilding and recovering from multiple successive wars. Have two of the reconstructions be a fully restored, more heavily fortified, full-blown fortress at Sentinel Hill (rename it Sentinel Keep or something) and the rejuvenation of the farms of Westfall. All just in time for this hostile new enemy to land in Westfall, entrench itself in the Dagger Hills, seize Moonbrook and start besieging the new keep. With an underlying sense of "whew, good thing we turned this hill into an absolute fortress when we did, or they'd have taken it over and marched on Stormwind by now." Meanwhile an Alliance navy engages the invading flotilla, striving to prevent a blockade that's attempting to isolate Stormwind Harbor. Players get quests to help repel the attackers, evacuate farmers from the southern fields and protect the north and eastern fields from enemy raids. The bridges into Duskwood and Elwynn get built up into gated crossings, with manned barricades spaced all along the riverbanks. Worgen from a military camp at Raven Hill and soldiers from the rebels in Stranglethorn (no longer rebels, but rather once more Stormwind soldiers in command of Kurzen's base, which has been built up to defend against the risk of Gurubashi attacks) engage in guerrilla raids on the invaders' camps in the Dagger Hills.

Meanwhile in Durotar, not unlike in Westfall, Razor Hill becomes home to a monolithic fortification of soaring battlements and imposing gates while the Southfury Watershed is cleansed and made home to settlements and farming operations, then similarly gets struck and holds against an invading host that lands and builds a foothold atop the ruins of Tiragarde Keep, driving the trolls from Sen'jin village in the process. A Horde fleet based out of new Zandalari-style ports at the Echo Isles lashes at the enemy's coastal holdings to protect the new ships under construction and keep the invaders' Kalimdor armada too occupied to start landing troops at Bladefist Bay. The Valley of Trials receives an upgrade, with its own fully staffed garrison for launching strikes at the invaders' flank. Players strike numerous serious blows to the enemy hosts, but gains are quickly offset by the enemy making use of what seems to be titan-based weaponry to match and drive back what would be otherwise overwhelming retaliations from the factions.

As a sort of expansion intro "event," these primary invasions are accompanied by routine enemy amphibious landings in Feralas, Ashenvale, Tanaris, Azshara, Silverpine, the Wetlands, the Hinterlands and Swamp of Sorrows. Several one-time quests send players to help the Ebon Blade, tuskarr and blue dragons repel similar assaults in Northrend, with others to help the Shado-pan drive back landings in Pandaria, accompanied by instances in which the player encounters Scourge, vrykul, mantid, and taunka fighting back wherever the invaders push into their territory. Perhaps include rotating aerial assaults upon some landlocked capitals like Ironforge and Thunder Bluff to showcase the invaders' flight capabilities being on par with those of the Alliance and Horde.

Stormwind and Orgrimmar remain under duress for the duration of the expansion, their armies largely forced to stay home in a holding pattern while the main content consists of the enemy's home continent, with the rest of the factions' races landing armies on opposite coasts of the landmass with the intent of marching upon the interior and demolishing the source of the invaders' greatest potential threat: the sealed faulty titan forge located within a fortress capital city. A forge that the enemy is attempting to breach, as within they can access more and stronger titan weaponry for their troops or, even worse, potentially fire up the forge itself and start making more soldiers. The initial base starts out with basic expansion hub necessities, building ever-growing footholds, with a primary section serving as the new expansion hub and each neighboring zone host to a heavily fortified base built and maintained by two or three races apiece. Questing in the initial zone for each faction allows improvements to be made to the primary hub, which in turn allows for additions to the satellite bases, upgrading them as the player levels like the Garrison. Improvements include new types of World and Daily Quests associated with the landing of associated reinforcement types and technologies.

At the heart of the continent rests the fortress city of the hostile empire, a hodgepodge of myriad native architecture erected around a central structure of twisted titan design, some of which has been breached and is the source of the titanic equipment with which they've outfitted their armies. The city is split by a massive river that bisects the continent, through which the empire's navy is deployed.

As the players work their way across the continent, several weaker and less numerous native races are encountered who've long suffered under the ministrations of the empire, and before the empire under some of its constituent races, and are willing to aid the Alliance and Horde in perhaps overthrowing it.

There we go. Lots of war, lots of classically "WoW" thematic beats, lots of exploration potential, but without faction war or the "Big Bad is going to kill everyone and destroy the world" plot looming over it all. The factions and players fighting not to prevent global annihilation, but rather to eliminate a hostile competing world power that will just keep trying to conquer them if they don't smack it down first.

Even put in some heroic beats to the villains; give their leaders and champions epic background stories about how they saved lives and drove back the Legion as the demons threatened to overrun their lands. Eschew flatly malicious motivations by making many of them straight-up patriots of their empire with understandable moral codes, earnestly convinced that they're doing what's good for everyone, including their conquered enemies once they've cast down the factions and taken over Azeroth.

Perhaps play with the idea that firing up the forge is something only the titan-forged leader of the enemy empire is focused upon, as it would allow his race to then outnumber and subjugate their organic allies along with everyone else. Which could, at a climactic point in the story, play a part in creating a schism in the empire that the Alliance and Horde can take advantage of.

Make the Alliance and Horde fight and overthrow an enemy not because defeat means death and torment for all, but because defeat means each faction having their own sovereignty quashed and their peoples rendered subordinate to an invading, conquering force.

Make the player factions face the threat of becoming underdogs in the game of empire. Make them struggle and fight to hold onto their positions as the world's mortal superpowers.

And as encapsulated by the starting premise of Stormwind and Orgrimmar being locked down along with their armies, make the rest of the Alliance and Horde prove they aren't completely dependent upon the orcs and humans to save their factions. I'm not talking about excluding human characters; I just mean taking such character out of their element surrounded by footmen and knights, to instead have to work predominantly with their allies' soldiers instead. Have the rest of the Alliance and the Horde as a whole fight a war to save the Humans and the Orcs.

Even better, said enemy needn't be eradicated as a force when it's done. Once the forge and topmost enemy military brass is taken out by players, the factions could withdraw at the end, knowing the enemy's means of taking them down in short order is done with, but not wishing to suffer the losses they would incur by seeking to demolish the empire's still-significant armies and hold onto the lands taken, while the invaders are forced to pull back from Stormwind and Orgrimmar now that they know there isn't a host of reinforcements armed with fresh new titan weaponry on the way.

And there we go. A persistent and preserved mortal threat that could still rise again down the line, but has been quelled for a time and forced to negotiate for peace. An enemy sufficiently beaten, but not destroyed, while the Alliance and Horde retain their positions in the world.

Okay, all done.

Last edited by ARM3481; 09-29-2019 at 12:03 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:13 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,008

Default

Quote:
Is it just me or was the Cata world revamp mostly hated because so much was destroyed with very little built. And what little was built as new stuff (Lor'Danel, the new Feathermoon Stronghold, etc.) was already there from launch, they didnt take advantage of the opportunity let us participate in that. Also both examples stated were basically just there to be mechanical replacements for something else blown up next door.
Generally speaking, some people don't like the sort of post-WotLK zone layout (where questing is a much more linear experience), which is fair though I think it makes sense in the early starting zones.

Mainly, the Cataclysm reboot took away from the end-game questing content production time, there's a perception that the reboot was biased towards the Horde-side and that it's frankly just unfinished.

Some of the zones are REALLY half-assed and a lot of them are incoherent. I still think the old world update was something they could have and maybe should have done over a series of patches or even expansions. And as was mentioned, it was a little too specific to it's own expansion.
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-30-2019, 05:13 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,209

Default

I like the idea ARM, as I've said we need to take a step back in terms of intensity of foes we are facing. Even in vanilla the foes we faced were pretty apocalyptic in nature, we just stopped them dead in their tracks before Ragnaros could reach full power, before C'thun was ready, etc. Though even this is much less extreme than what came with WotLK and after where just about every force we fought was potentially world ending if we failed to quell it.
Facing mortal foes with mortal motivations would be quite refreshing and bring back a feel of adventure and exploration that seems to be sorely missing if the success of Classic is any indication.

My own idea was for a new continent of the far side of Azeroth populated not by new races but known races though ones whose cultures radically diverged from their cousins. Things like empire building tauren, savage humans (who still consider themselves vrykul), peaceful and prosperous trolls, violent gnomes, civilized gnolls, etc. The focus would be exploration, making friends or foes of the natives and earning money via your trade company.
Whatever the means used Azeroth desperately needs time to rebuild and recover, at least if Blizz wants the story to make a modicum of sense.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-30-2019, 06:31 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is online now

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,424
BattleTag: JulianPatel#1800

Default

Honestly I'd be enthusiastic about almost any kind of "Opposite side of Azeroth" expansion whatever form it takes. That said, I like the ideas on this post.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:27 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,551

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
I like the idea ARM, as I've said we need to take a step back in terms of intensity of foes we are facing. Even in vanilla the foes we faced were pretty apocalyptic in nature, we just stopped them dead in their tracks before Ragnaros could reach full power, before C'thun was ready, etc. Though even this is much less extreme than what came with WotLK and after where just about every force we fought was potentially world ending if we failed to quell it.
Facing mortal foes with mortal motivations would be quite refreshing and bring back a feel of adventure and exploration that seems to be sorely missing if the success of Classic is any indication.

My own idea was for a new continent of the far side of Azeroth populated not by new races but known races though ones whose cultures radically diverged from their cousins. Things like empire building tauren, savage humans (who still consider themselves vrykul), peaceful and prosperous trolls, violent gnomes, civilized gnolls, etc. The focus would be exploration, making friends or foes of the natives and earning money via your trade company.
Whatever the means used Azeroth desperately needs time to rebuild and recover, at least if Blizz wants the story to make a modicum of sense.
Ah, and that's the beauty of my hypothetical scenario. It leaves room for some of the titan-forged races to include ones we've seen, and for some of the organic races to be displaced offshoots of familiar ones as well, each having changed and adapted culturally from their ancient predecessors to survive in their new homelands.

Maybe have the forge quarantine include a barrier that hid the island, which broke partway during the Sundering to only keep things in, but not out, allowing various castaways from ships and occasionally even small fleets to end up stranded there and become permanent residents over the millennia. Then the barrier shatters completely during the Cataclysm and the natives don't realize it has until the Legion arriving there years later exposes to them that their continent is no longer shrouded from the outside world. Whereupon they begin quietly scouting the rest of Azeroth, discovering all these other kingdoms ripe for conquering and potential threats in need of preemptive subduing.

Seeding of it could even involve players coming across spies in various zones from familiar races acting slightly weird and out-of-place, who when confronted flee. The player pursues and sees them meet with hostile mobs of the same races hiding in secluded camps at the edges of the zones, girt in strange armor and weapons and when killed, dropping encoded messages written in a bizarre language that, when roughly translated by an NPC, seem to map out in detail the local territories and military dispositions of the Alliance and Horde. Then have us turn the messages in to our factions' higher-ups, who express confusion and concern about these mysterious individuals - of races who should be friendlies - attacking the player, carrying sensitive intel meant for an empire they've never heard of, wearing unfamiliar gear and perhaps even regularly shouting in the same unfamiliar language seen in the messages.

But of course, they can't do much about this mystery immediately beyond saying they'll throw a few of their own agents at it because as a "seeding" of future content, it's naturally taking place while the struggles of the current expansion-in-progress are still going on and occupying everyone's attention.

And hey, as a bonus for folks who focus on such things, finding every spy's communique for each zone they're in could qualify as a premise for a set of Achievements. Perhaps attach a foreshadowing mount that's a previously unknown subspecies of a familiar Azerothian one, draped in strange barding with foreign markings and sigils and tagged with a vague description like "This looks like a _____, but it's not like any you've ever seen before."

Last edited by ARM3481; 09-30-2019 at 01:51 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:42 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,209

Default

It would be great to see.

Another thing that hold appeal to me but not so sure if it does for the average fan would be a world redesign but not one steeped in disaster or invasion, but progress. It would be nice to see the good work the player did in the past built upon. Towns retaken now functional, wild races we smacked down controlled, projects we helped get off the ground now functional. Obviously not all threats would be neutralized allowing for more classical kind of questing, also quests to further improve the land for use by your race/faction and finally the kind of quests I especially wish to see, quests dealing with keeping pacified populations peaceful.

There is a lot of potential in occupation based stories, be it of playable races or of wild ones. Hunting down troublemakers and rebels, busting up insurgent cells, defusing existing tensions, doing counter-intelligence operations and ofc in some cases putting down full blown rebellions. Especially for wild races it is annoying how they are allowed to remain a threat until they inevitably cause big problems and have to be smacked down again at cost. So put them under occupation, it is only logical, it does not prevent stories and quests it just makes different ones.
Plus while a very common thing IRL in WoW it is pretty novel storytelling where most conquests see the losers completely annihilated. Trying to get value out of the land and the population, the mixing of cultures, resistance and collaboration... it has a lot of potential.

Especially if the race in question is a playable race. For example NEs in Ashenvale or Orcs in Stonard. One side could have quests to keep the population compliant while the other can have quests to stoke the fires of rebellion.

I could even enjoy a full expansion of this, where the revamped world and the subtle tensions are the main thing and it would be novel in the sense that newbies could be playing with max level characters thanks to the level scaling system. Ofc this is probably too much for the normie player who would dislike the down to earth storytelling and the low intensity of the conflicts.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-03-2019, 04:32 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,277

Default

I still think that the Illidari was practically tailor-made for a third faction. Blood elves, draenei (pre-retcon), naga (or a naga variant), or even a few Illidan-aligned demon races if they wanted "non-evil eredar." It could have even included the the Forsaken. But alas, missed opportunities.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.