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  #376  
Old 09-16-2013, 03:54 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
From someone who's killed him Alliance-side on MMO-C:
He only talked to the ally leaders ally side? Cause Horde side Anduin and Varian said something unique.

Also now I'm scared with what they'll do with Jaina.
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  #377  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:44 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Also now I'm scared with what they'll do with Jaina.
Maybe they can do like her Theramore incarnation and just have her cuss you out and teleport you out of the raid, above Orgrimmar, at max height over a puddle of water.
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  #378  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:46 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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So, what, the Night Elves officially give Azshara to the Horde in exchange for them staying the fuck out of Ashenvale?

What's Tyrande get from Varian and the Horde? If it's The Horde staying out of Ashevale, fuck that. It's not trade, it's tribute.

I think it's a good start, don't get me wrong, but the Elves damn sure better get something out of it other than "Ashenvale is left alone because we paid more protection money"
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  #379  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:50 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
So, what, the Night Elves officially give Azshara to the Horde in exchange for them staying the fuck out of Ashenvale?

What's Tyrande get from Varian and the Horde? If it's The Horde staying out of Ashevale, fuck that. It's not trade, it's tribute.
Uti possidetis, baby.

Which, honestly, would probably work in the Alliance's favour, overall.
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  #380  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:51 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
So, what, the Night Elves officially give Azshara to the Horde in exchange for them staying the fuck out of Ashenvale?

What's Tyrande get from Varian and the Horde? If it's The Horde staying out of Ashevale, fuck that. It's not trade, it's tribute.

I think it's a good start, don't get me wrong, but the Elves damn sure better get something out of it other than "Ashenvale is left alone because we paid more protection money"
Wait, did the elves even control Azshara? Sure, they had a tower there, but an outpost does not a controlled region make, and that tower was likely a recent creation considering it was to be an entrance to a battleground.
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  #381  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:54 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Wait, did the elves even control Azshara? Sure, they had a tower there, but an outpost does not a controlled region make, and that tower was likely a recent creation considering it was to be an entrance to a battleground.
They had settlements there in WC3 that people like to say don't exist because they don't show up in WoW.

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Uti possidetis, baby.

Which, honestly, would probably work in the Alliance's favour, overall.
Except the pact indicates some sort of treaty, and thus the law wouldn't apply.

If it DID, the Orcs would still have several strong holds in Ashenvale, Stonetalon, and other places.

Speaking of, what about Stonetalon? South Shore.. The other areas? Is this going to, essentially, be a Phyric victory for the Alliance? They lost their land and their people died in vain to defend them, but some peace was established at their expense?

I don't mind the Horde having Azshara.. But they should damn sure pay for it, and the Night Elves should benefit for it.

Last edited by Ruinshin; 09-16-2013 at 06:58 PM..
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  #382  
Old 09-16-2013, 07:02 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
They had settlements there in WC3 that people like to say don't exist because they don't show up in WoW.
Oh right, I forgot about those. Nevermind then.

It does still amaze me how good the people of Azeroth are at missing the obvious though.

1. Azshara is not exactly a forest, so if the horde (somehow) needed to cut enough wood to cover the entire bloody kingdom of Stromgarde in 2-story buildings before, it's not exactly likely that it will fill their needs.
2. The bloody cenarion circle can bloody create massive bloody trees and could have ended the entire conflict any time they wanted by doing exactly that.
3. Ask the bloody tauren druids to recruit some bloody wisps, you bloody idiots.
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  #383  
Old 09-16-2013, 07:05 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Oh right, I forgot about those. Nevermind then.

It does still amaze me how good the people of Azeroth are at missing the obvious though.

1. Azshara is not exactly a forest, so if the horde (somehow) needed to cut enough wood to cover the entire land of the kingdom of Stromgarde in 2-story buildings before, it's not exactly likely that it will fill their needs.
2. The cenarion circle can massive bloody trees and could have ended the entire conflict any time they wanted by doing exactly that.
3. Ask the bloody tauren druids to recruit some bloody wisps, you bloody idiots.
Well, yes... That's my big complaint over this entire resource thing. Druids. We have druids that can regrow wood. Tides of War even had Horde druids regrowing and healing DEAD wood on boats.

The Tauren are at least intelligent in the whole thing though.

After Naralex in the Barrens gave up, the Tauren Druids he was with essentially said "Wha? You are giving up... but..but.. You know what dude, we got this, go away".
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  #384  
Old 09-16-2013, 07:08 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
Except the pact indicates some sort of treaty, and thus the law wouldn't apply.

If it DID, the Orcs would still have several strong holds in Ashenvale, Stonetalon, and other places.

Speaking of, what about Stonetalon? South Shore.. The other areas? Is this going to, essentially, be a Phyric victory for the Alliance? They lost their land and their people died in vain to defend them, but some peace was established at their expense?

I don't mind the Horde having Azshara.. But they should damn sure pay for it, and the Night Elves should benefit for it.
Well, a treaty based on the aforementioned principle would see the Orcs removed from Ashenvale, Felwood, Dustwallow, Swamp of Sorrows, Thousand Needles, bits of the Southern Barrens, most of Stonetalon, the Badlands, bits of Durotar, and I'm sure I've forgotten something, but for the life of me I can't think of it.

In return, they'd control a few parcels of newly unusable wasteland in Hillsbrad, three square feet of Arathi and Andorhal.

Shouldn't take much work from there to make something work.
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  #385  
Old 09-16-2013, 07:25 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Well, a treaty based on the aforementioned principle would see the Orcs removed from Ashenvale, Felwood, Dustwallow, Swamp of Sorrows, Thousand Needles, bits of the Southern Barrens, most of Stonetalon, the Badlands, bits of Durotar, and I'm sure I've forgotten something, but for the life of me I can't think of it.

In return, they'd control a few parcels of newly unusable wasteland in Hillsbrad, three square feet of Arathi and Andorhal.

Shouldn't take much work from there to make something work.
That's actually a good question.. Tyrande says Ashenvale.. Does she mean Ashenvale forest, of which Azshara was never part of but Felwood, Hyjal, Moonglade, Stonetalon parts of winterspring and Ashenvale (but not all of Darkshore) are part of, or does she mean just Ashenvale the zone..

Anyway, the Alliance doesn't ever actually attack Horde holdings in Stonetalon on a scale large enough to shut down operations. Hell, the Alliance doesn't even shut down all of the Horde operations in Ashenvale proper, and one location, at least, would be nearly impossible for the Alliance to assault as Astrannaar would be a smoking crater the moment it attempts to launch any attack.

The Horde lost much of Ashenvale, but it didn't lose nearly all of it.

All of which is pointless, because we have some sort of (new) treaty that makes Ashenvale off limits..

But seriously, other than "peace" which will ultimately be temporary, what do the Elves gain by this trade? Or are they being thrown under the bus to appease the Horde?

Either/or, and the story should reflect both respectively.
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  #386  
Old 09-16-2013, 08:12 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Why did Tyrande have weird accent now?
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  #387  
Old 09-16-2013, 08:19 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
Speaking of, what about Stonetalon? South Shore.. The other areas? Is this going to, essentially, be a Phyric victory for the Alliance? They lost their land and their people died in vain to defend them, but some peace was established at their expense?

I don't mind the Horde having Azshara.. But they should damn sure pay for it, and the Night Elves should benefit for it.
As I said, it's basically a long defeat for the Alliance.
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  #388  
Old 09-16-2013, 08:20 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
As I said, it's basically a long defeat for the Alliance.
Well... Yes..

It would be an unarguable loss for the Alliance. The Horde would have gained land, the Alliance would have lost land, and the Horde comes out hurt only because of internal issues, not anything the Alliance did.

And since Blizzard has now confirmed that Garrosh seized Org from the Horde thanks to their facebook ad of "Garrosh has seized Org. It's time to take it back", it can't be argued that the Alliance is invading the Horde capital city and dethroning their leader. Their leader is a usurper.

Of course, we don't even know exactly what Tyrande says, because the report we got from MMO-Champion seems like it's more paraphrased than fact.

I mean, even Varian is of the opinion that the Alliance can't take the Horde without more lives and casualties than it's worth, even in it's weakened state, so it's not like the Horde is THAT much weaker than the Alliance.

Last edited by Ruinshin; 09-16-2013 at 08:25 PM..
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