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Old 04-17-2014, 07:09 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Default Warcraft as seen on the MTG Color Wheel.

This is a product of two things: The discussion of Garroshes alignment, and playing a lot of Hearthstone. I dabbled in Magic the Gathering back in High School, and I enjoyed it quite thoroughly, and I can see elements of it in Hearthstone, the heroes, and the decks that can be made from them. My understanding it is a product of Blizz devs who also have been playing MTG for some time. So, let's look at things from the alignment system presented in MTG.

Verdande sums up the philosophies of the colors quite well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
I think you're oversimplifying the philisophy of the five colours a bit. I'd describe more as follows:

White - Order, Law, Obediance, Limits, Sacrifice, The many over the few, Destruction. Allied with Green and Blue, opposes Black and Red.

Blue - Progress, Knowledge, Secrets, Deception, Lies, Illusion, Artifice, Mind, Time, Reality, Science. Knowing for the sake of knowing. Allied with White and Black, opposes Green and Red.

Black - Ambition, Determination, Parasitism, Amorality, Power, Immortality, Law of equivalent exchange. Allied with blue and red, opposes white and green.

Red - Passion, freedom, emotion, impulsiveness, raw, expression, art, fickle, chance, random. Allied with black and green, opposes white and blue.

Green - Instinct, Strength, Natural order, evolution, harmony, life, healing, survival of the fittest. Allied with white and red, opposes black and blue.

If we are talking about people, it is commonly accepted that everyone is all five colours. Most of us (as well as most factions) could be said to have one (more commonly two, less commonly three) primary colour or colours.
Idea of this thread is to look at factions, characters, etc, and analyze them using this color scheme. For instance:

The Horde in the first and second Wars were Red and Black. Thrall took them away from black, and the Tauren and Trolls introduced some nice Green elements, plus all the beasties (wolves, Kodos, Wyvern) that they employed. Garrosh went with that, but he also went Red Black with the Sha.

Anduin is whitity white white white. He's the whitest white-boy I ever saw. Take that as you will.

Anyone else want to apply this rubric to a character or faction?

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 04-17-2014 at 07:35 PM..
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:13 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Blood elves are red and blue right?
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:21 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Since you didn't list artifact creatures, I'm assuming you're from before the time where those things became ridiculous common:
-artifact creatures: Mechanical creatures that rely on pre-assigned logic. Own reasoning is usually absent or limited.
In addition, I'd like to add these two qualities to blue; versatile, trader.

Stormwind, Stromgarde and Lordaeron Humans are basically pure white. Dalaran humans would be pure blue. Alterac humans, honestly a little hard to estimate. Red maybe? Tirasian humans a nice neat mix of white and blue. And gilneas is white with some strong hints of all the other colors.
Dwarves are white with some artifact creatures (since you didn't list them, I'm assuming you're from before the time where they became increasingly common), as well as a rare red card for the dark irons
Night elves are basically all-green. Maybe a green-white hybrid card somewhere, or a green-blue for the highborne, but nearly all their cards would be green.
Draenei are white-blue, probably an about even mix.
Gnomes are white-red with a ton of artifact creatures.

Orcs are red. Maybe a hint of black here and there, but mostly just red.
Tauren strike me as an even mix of red and green, maybe a little white card mixed in occasionally.
Trolls are actually really damn hard to fit into the magic colour scheme. I can see a good argument for every color having a big presence, but no real argument for any having dominance.
Blood elves are red and blue, mixed with occasional white (priests and modern blood knights), green (farstriders and rangers) and black (warlocks)
Forsaken are black, with maybe a little blue hybrid card mixed in somewhere.
Goblins are red, though the other colours, and artifact creatures, would also make an occasional appearance.
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Last edited by ijffdrie; 04-17-2014 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:25 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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I think you're oversimplifying the philisophy of the five colours a bit. I'd describe more as follows:

White - Order, Law, Obediance, Limits, Sacrifice, The many over the few, Destruction. Allied with Green and Blue, opposes Black and Red.

Blue - Progress, Knowledge, Secrets, Deception, Lies, Illusion, Artifice, Mind, Time, Reality, Science. Knowing for the sake of knowing. Allied with White and Black, opposes Green and Red.

Black - Ambition, Determination, Parasitism, Amorality, Power, Immortality, Law of equivalent exchange. Allied with blue and red, opposes white and green.

Red - Passion, freedom, emotion, impulsiveness, raw, expression, art, fickle, chance, random. Allied with black and green, opposes white and blue.

Green - Instinct, Strength, Natural order, evolution, harmony, life, healing, survival of the fittest. Allied with white and red, opposes black and blue.

If we are talking about people, it is commonly accepted that everyone is all five colours. Most of us (as well as most factions) could be said to have one (more commonly two, less commonly three) primary colour or colours.
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Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
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Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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Old 04-17-2014, 07:31 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Blood elves are red and blue right?
Those would be their primary colors, with a strong showing of White for Blood Knights and Priests. Rangers Green, but their not that prominent. They started Blue, then mixed the Red (with the implied black in between) after the scourge, and the restored sunwell pulled them towards white.

Quote:
Since you didn't list artifact creatures, I'm assuming you're from before the time where those things became ridiculous common:
-artifact creatures: Mechanical creatures that rely on pre-assigned logic. Own reasoning is usually absent or limited.
In addition, I'd like to add these two qualities to blue; versatile, trader.

Stormwind, Stromgarde and Lordaeron Humans are basically pure white. Dalaran humans would be pure blue. Alterac humans, honestly a little hard to estimate. Red maybe? Tirasian humans a nice neat mix of white and blue. And gilneas is white with some hints of all the other colors.
Dwarves are white with some artifact creatures (since you didn't list them, I'm assuming you're from before the time where they became increasingly common), as well as a rare red card for the dark irons
Night elves are basically all-green. Maybe a green-white hybrid card somewhere, or a green-blue for the highborne, but nearly all their cards would be green.
Draenei are white-blue, probably an about even mix.
Gnomes are white-red with a ton of artifact creatures.

Orcs are red. Maybe a hint of black here and there, but mostly just red.
Tauren strike me as an even mix of red and green, maybe a little white card mixed in occasionally.
Trolls are actually really damn hard to fit into the magic colour scheme. I can see a good argument for every color having a big presence, but no real argument for any having dominance.
Blood elves are red and blue, mixed with occasional white (priests and modern blood knights), green (farstriders and rangers) and black (warlocks)
Forsaken are black, with maybe a little blue hybrid card mixed in somewhere.
Goblins are red, though the other colours, and artifact creatures, would also make an occasional appearance.
Yeah, I missed all that artifact stuff. Still, I do like you analysis. I agree with you on Trolls. Eredar were blue, then split towards white and black (Draenei went white). The Shamans pull them a bit towards the Green side I'd say. I'd also give orcs a bit of Green, if for nothing else than for all those beautiful beasties they get to work for them.

I'm kinda thinking Black/Blue for Alterac, just because of all the trickery, not to mention making a bad deal with Orcs. Oh, and I'd mix some black in for Goblins, all their greed and deal making.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
I think you're oversimplifying the philisophy of the five colours a bit. I'd describe more as follows:

White - Order, Law, Obediance, Limits, Sacrifice, The many over the few, Destruction. Allied with Green and Blue, opposes Black and Red.

Blue - Progress, Knowledge, Secrets, Deception, Lies, Illusion, Artifice, Mind, Time, Reality, Science. Knowing for the sake of knowing. Allied with White and Black, opposes Green and Red.

Black - Ambition, Determination, Parasitism, Amorality, Power, Immortality, Law of equivalent exchange. Allied with blue and red, opposes white and green.

Red - Passion, freedom, emotion, impulsiveness, raw, expression, art, fickle, chance, random. Allied with black and green, opposes white and blue.

Green - Instinct, Strength, Natural order, evolution, harmony, life, healing, survival of the fittest. Allied with white and red, opposes black and blue.

If we are talking about people, it is commonly accepted that everyone is all five colours. Most of us (as well as most factions) could be said to have one (more commonly two, less commonly three) primary colour or colours.
Thank you. That does sum it up a bit better. Heck, I think I'll put that in the OP.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 04-17-2014 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:34 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Yeah, I missed all that artifact stuff. Still, I do like you analysis. I agree with you on Trolls. Eredar were blue, then split towards white and black (Draenei went white). The Shamans pull them a bit towards the Green side I'd say. I'd also give orcs a bit of Green, if for nothing else than for all those beautiful beasties they get to work for them.
Beasties don't have to mean green though. There's a lot of red and blue beasts in particular, and wolves, kodos and wyverns fit in very well among the former.

Quote:
I'm kinda thinking Black/Blue for Alterac, just because of all the trickery, not to mention making a bad deal with Orcs.
True, but ToD made it seem like that was just limited to the leadership of alterac, and in no way connected to the average person.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:36 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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I would argue that the Blood Elves are Black and Red, with occurances of blue (what MtG-players call Grixis). It all really depends on what aspects of the race you look at.

Common themes for Grixis would be recklessness and progress, with no regards for the consequences of your ambition. True Grixis would be the Sunfury.

Blue-Red (Izzet) is depicted mostly as whimsical genious, and reckless science. Goblin Engineering (and thus Warcraft goblins in general) would be a prime example of Izzet.
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Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:38 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Beasties don't have to mean green though. There's a lot of red and blue beasts in particular, and wolves, kodos and wyverns fit in very well among the former.


Ah, but the instinct, survival of the fittest, not to mention some of the aspects of their shamans (Resto shamans in particular) lend themselves to green. I'd probably say more red than green, but enough of it's there.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:54 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
I would argue that the Blood Elves are Black and Red, with occurances of blue (what MtG-players call Grixis). It all really depends on what aspects of the race you look at.

Common themes for Grixis would be recklessness and progress, with no regards for the consequences of your ambition. True Grixis would be the Sunfury.

Blue-Red (Izzet) is depicted mostly as whimsical genious, and reckless science. Goblin Engineering (and thus Warcraft goblins in general) would be a prime example of Izzet.
I'd apply some black to Goblins as well, if only for their focus on profits.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:03 PM
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To me, the Goblins are straight up Izzet (blue red). But then again, the Gnomes have some of that too.

Though you're right that Trolls are tricky to pin down. Red and green (Gruul)? Okay, sure, but the Darkspear have a sense of camaraderie and loyalty not typically associated with that slice of the pie. But then what about their magics? Gods of death don't exactly scream white.

I think it'd be acceptable to say they're primarily red and green.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:06 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Gnomes are clearly blue and white.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:11 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I haven't played M:TG since middle school, but for some reason I still remember some of the rules and background.

The Alliance is probably a green-white-blue supergroup. The Horde used to be green-red-black, but with the goblins and blood elves they also have some blue.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:43 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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I'm thinking that Stromgarde would be Boros and Alterac would be Dimir.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:41 PM
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Gul'dan is definitely black.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:18 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
Gul'dan is definitely black.
So is Garona, Sylvanas and Valeera. Black isn't evil, black is pragmatic and self-preserving.

I'd say Maiev is White. I'd say Garithos was White-Red.

The current, playable Alliance would be White-Green-Blue (Bant) and the current, playable Horde would be White-Red-Blue (Dega).
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Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
So is Garona, Sylvanas and Valeera. Black isn't evil, black is pragmatic and self-preserving.

I'd say Maiev is White. I'd say Garithos was White-Red.

The current, playable Alliance would be White-Green-Blue (Bant) and the current, playable Horde would be White-Red-Blue (Dega).
With the Tauren and Trolls representing more than a little bit of green, wouldn't the Horde be more Naya (Green red white)? I don't see a whole lot of blue in the Tauren, Trolls or Orcs. Reverence of powerful nature spirits, love of freedom, family, a seeming total disregard for technology, etc.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:34 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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What is white about the Horde?
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:58 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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What is white about the Horde?
Sun walkers, maybe post Sunwell Blood Knights.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:00 AM
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What is white about the Horde?
This



is still white.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:08 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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This



is still white.
I'd compare Tauren with Leonin quite easily. Maybe some aspects of trolls, although Trolls really do cover a broad spectrum.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:10 AM
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I`d love to see where the sol peeps rank on this wheel. Most are blue-something probably.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:12 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I`d love to see where the sol peeps rank on this wheel. Most are blue-something probably.
Thread must be derailed to accommodate this.

While there is a lot of blue, there's some hot angry vengeful white out there too.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:23 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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Thread must be derailed to accommodate this.

While there is a lot of blue, there's some hot angry vengeful white out there too.
Hot angry vengeful white describes most internet users.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:27 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Hot angry vengeful white describes most internet users.
Point taken. I don't know that you can use Green or Black to describe anyone on these Forums or the internet in general, but maybe Red for some Trolls who just worship chaos.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:28 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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I see parts of myself all over the wheel. black and blue a lot.
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